How would you change the show?

[fireproof78]

One might say it was "First Contact" that made the Borg petty. Letting herself get sidetracked trying to seduce Data and Picard. To say nothing of using her time-travel device only on Eath, and not Romulus, Qo'nos, or the Founders. It seems even the Borg know that on "Star Trek," humans are special, and humans with names billed in the opening credits are even more special.

Indeed. It's quite interesting where these are beings who purportedly can see in larger dimensional terms and then became sidetracked by one specific human. Seven was the same thing for the Queen in Voyager and it was aggravating.

Yeah, if this were 1995 and we were in the writing room I'd agree with you 100%. But by this point, Cavit's hilariously stupid death is as classic as "Threshold" or "Spock's Brain."

Eh, have hilariously stupid be done by a gold shirt. Not the captain.

 

[Anwar]

About rewrites, the obvious would be that use the Caretaker array to get home but before that leave a bomb with a timer onboard the array?

Really, the obvious change here is to explain it was the Caretaker himself who brought VOY to the Delta Quadrant with powers of his own, not the Array's technology. But he over-estimated himself and lacked the power to send them back before he died.

The Female Caretaker should explain that she has some kind of anti-Borg tech that scares them enough that they stay out of parts of the DQ because they fear her cause she could easily destroy them. Which would justify them showing up in some places but not others, it's because she's declared some places as "Her Territory" and they don't go there.

 

[at Quark's]

Did the Caretaker send back ships before he was in the terminal stages of his disease (or decay, or whatever his cause of death was), or did he never do so to begin with?

 

[Anwar]

Did the Caretaker send back ships before he was in the terminal stages of his disease (or decay, or whatever his cause of death was), or did he never do so to begin with?

The show couldn't make up its mind about whether he did or not.

 

[Anwar]

Anyways, I know it's a bit strange to consider this for a show about people always on the move, but they needed an overall consistent enemy as well. The Borg don't work because of how overpowered TNG made them, so we'd need someone else.

I nominate the Female Caretaker. Not about directly confronting her but foiling experiments and manipulations she's been doing for thousands of years.

 

[Farscape One]

Anyways, I know it's a bit strange to consider this for a show about people always on the move, but they needed an overall consistent enemy as well. The Borg don't work because of how overpowered TNG made them, so we'd need someone else.

I nominate the Female Caretaker. Not about directly confronting her but foiling experiments and manipulations she's been doing for thousands of years.

I like that idea.

 

[fireproof78]

Anyways, I know it's a bit strange to consider this for a show about people always on the move, but they needed an overall consistent enemy as well. The Borg don't work because of how overpowered TNG made them, so we'd need someone else.

I nominate the Female Caretaker. Not about directly confronting her but foiling experiments and manipulations she's been doing for thousands of years.

I like this as well. It would be a more interesting villain, especially if they start out looking for her for help and discovering the experiments and manipulations on different worlds.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

I like this as well. It would be a more interesting villain, especially if they start out looking for her for help and discovering the experiments and manipulations on different worlds.

Why did you have to say this. Now I'll die mad that this didn't happen. This would've been PHENOMENAL.

Better yet, it could've then been the Female Caretaker who the Borg needed help defeating in "Scorpion."

 

[Anwar]

Why did you have to say this. Now I'll die mad that this didn't happen. This would've been PHENOMENAL.

Better yet, it could've then been the Female Caretaker who the Borg needed help defeating in "Scorpion."

That was a plot element that I used in a VOY rewrite I did years ago: The Female Caretaker was the one who brought the 8472 aliens to our universe as one of her experiments. To see what would happen.

 

[Damian]

Anyways, I know it's a bit strange to consider this for a show about people always on the move, but they needed an overall consistent enemy as well. The Borg don't work because of how overpowered TNG made them, so we'd need someone else.

I nominate the Female Caretaker. Not about directly confronting her but foiling experiments and manipulations she's been doing for thousands of years.

Yeah I agree. The female caretaker would make sense because she is very powerful and could be omnipresent throughout the show.

I mean, I liked that we would have an enemy for a while and transition to a new one as they travelled too. That does make sense when you are making such a long journey that you would encounter different civilizations and different enemies. The Kazon, the Vidiians, the Borg, Hirogen, Malon, the Heirarchy (to some extent) in particular. But one consistent threat throughout would have been more interesting to add to the mix as well.

I also always thought Voyager itself should have had more difficulties as well. They started doing that, replicator rations, running out of deuterium. But that sort of faded away as the show went on. That should have gotten gradually worse. Maybe not as bad as the Equinox, but somewhere along that line where they had to struggle more to survive. And the merging of the Starfleet and Maquis crews show have been more gradual as they learned to trust and rely on each other more. Instead by the 3rd episode it seemed they dropped the conflict between the two for the most part (outside an occasional episode).

There was a lot of unrealized potential with Voyager sadly. I've learned to like the show over the years. It still has some great episodes. But it could have been an even better show.

 

[Oddish]

There was a lot of unrealized potential with Voyager sadly. I've learned to like the show over the years. It still has some great episodes. But it could have been an even better show.

Voyager had a great premise, a stellar cast, some outstanding ideas... and appalling overall execution.

 

[Farscape One]

VOYAGER is definitely a case where too much studio/network meddling is a bad thing.

 

[Oddish]

VOYAGER is definitely a case where too much studio/network meddling is a bad thong.

You just made me visualize Captain Janeway wearing a thong.
At least it wasn't Neelix.

 

[Farscape One]

You just made me visualize Captain Janeway wearing a thong.
At least it wasn't Neelix.

Damn... I meant 'thing'. The trouble with typing on a phone... too many errors. (I am usually quick to find and fix them, but this has been a hectic morning.)

But if you really want to visualize Neelix in a thong, I'm sure he donned one at some point while he was running the Paxau Resort program...

(Not on screen, but at another time. )

 

[Anwar]

I also always thought Voyager itself should have had more difficulties as well. They started doing that, replicator rations, running out of deuterium. But that sort of faded away as the show went on. That should have gotten gradually worse. Maybe not as bad as the Equinox, but somewhere along that line where they had to struggle more to survive. And the merging of the Starfleet and Maquis crews show have been more gradual as they learned to trust and rely on each other more. Instead by the 3rd episode it seemed they dropped the conflict between the two for the most part (outside an occasional episode).

There was a lot of unrealized potential with Voyager sadly. I've learned to like the show over the years. It still has some great episodes. But it could have been an even better show.

The problem is that a lot of the stuff set up couldn't really go on for too long. After 2 seasons, if the Maquis and Starfleeters were still conflicting it would've gotten ridiculous.

I mean, look at Deep Space Nine. Kira and Odo start off with an antagonistic relationship with Sisko and we get stories based on that...but believably, by the end of Season 1 their issues with him are done and they get along very well after that.

And the resource issues too, really if they were still alive after 2 or 3 seasons then that means they made allies and formed relationships with the locals and wouldn't have real resource issues.

Battlestar Galactica? Their resource issues were gone by Season 3, and that's in a Universe where no other civilizations existed.

VOY's had problems with its execution and how quickly it wrapped things up, but the bigger problem was that its initial problems are ones that couldn't really last for 7 years anyways.

This is why DS9 brought in the Dominion at the end of S2 and used them to drive most of its plots after, it's because the stuff they started with couldn't last much longer than 2 seasons.

 

[at Quark's]

The problem is that a lot of the stuff set up couldn't really go on for too long. After 2 seasons, if the Maquis and Starfleeters were still conflicting it would've gotten ridiculous.

No more so than Voyager (the ship) having to win or at the very least survive each week, even when defying all odds

Then again, the same is true for every Trek series of course.

 

[Anwar]

No more so than Voyager (the ship) having to win or at the very least survive each week, even when defying all odds

Then again, the same is true for every Trek series of course.

Even TOS started getting on my nerves with the Spock/McCoy clashing by S3.

Thankfully, the movies had them both get over themselves and that conflict was toned down. Spock realized what he really wanted wasn't Pure Logic and after McCoy had to share space with Spock's soul he stopped his "Green Blooded Bastard" stuff.

Look at other shows, like Farscape. They couldn't keep up the conflicts they started with either between the characters.

 

[Damian]

The problem is that a lot of the stuff set up couldn't really go on for too long. After 2 seasons, if the Maquis and Starfleeters were still conflicting it would've gotten ridiculous.

Oh yeah, absolutely. I think that would have had to have been resolved by early season 3 at the latest. It would have gotten old by then. They would have needed to have started to develop other storylines to develop as the series progressed. They did that to some extent of course.

But my argument was that by episode 3 it seemed all the animosity was completely gone and you could hardly ever tell the difference, outside a handful of episodes. It should have taken a longer for them to grow to trust and respect each other. But definitely at some point they would have to move on from that by the 2nd or 3rd year at the latest.

They missed a lot of potential there in the early going for that. I was like why did we even have a Starfleet and Maquis crew in the first place if by episode 3 you could hardly tell a difference most times.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh yeah, absolutely. I think that would have had to have been resolved by early season 3 at the latest. It would have gotten old by then. They would have needed to have started to develop other storylines to develop as the series progressed. They did that to some extent of course.

But my argument was that by episode 3 it seemed all the animosity was completely gone and you could hardly ever tell the difference, outside a handful of episodes. It should have taken a longer for them to grow to trust and respect each other. But definitely at some point they would have to move on from that by the 2nd or 3rd year at the latest.

They missed a lot of potential there in the early going for that. I was like why did we even have a Starfleet and Maquis crew in the first place if by episode 3 you could hardly tell a difference most times.

Agreed and I think that Voyager had a lot of potential backed in to a number of their story ideas. The conflict between Paris and Chakotay and Tuvok even could have been easily unpacked over the course of a season. Again, it's not a lot of big things that need changes, or that conflicts must be never ending, or never resolved. Just that, you set up two groups of people with a disparate or even hostile background, as well giving them a common goal. And you create drama from that.

Does that film 7 whole seasons? Of course not. That's ridiculous! But does it create the opportunity for growth and change in characters? 110% and it could be very interesting if explored against the backdrop of the adventure of the week.

VOY's had problems with its execution and how quickly it wrapped things up, but the bigger problem was that its initial problems are ones that couldn't really last for 7 years anyways.

Of course not. Absurdist expectation is absurd.

 

[Anwar]

Oh yeah, absolutely. I think that would have had to have been resolved by early season 3 at the latest. It would have gotten old by then. They would have needed to have started to develop other storylines to develop as the series progressed. They did that to some extent of course.

But my argument was that by episode 3 it seemed all the animosity was completely gone and you could hardly ever tell the difference, outside a handful of episodes. It should have taken a longer for them to grow to trust and respect each other. But definitely at some point they would have to move on from that by the 2nd or 3rd year at the latest.

They missed a lot of potential there in the early going for that. I was like why did we even have a Starfleet and Maquis crew in the first place if by episode 3 you could hardly tell a difference most times.

Yes, I agree it should've lasted longer. It just couldn't last all 7 seasons.