How would you change the show?

[Anwar]

Beltran was one of the bigger problems with the show. He never gave a damn, look at this:

Season ONE:

Chakotay confronts his lover on her betrayal and using of him. Should have been a great scene except Beltran delivers it with all the emotion of a cigar store indian. It's AWFUL. And it's season one. So this stuff about how poor poor Beltran got pissy because he was sidelined is only half the story. He was sidelined I suspect because he was terrible! Just like Picardo got more and more limelight because he was fantastic. Writers aren't going to write dramatic storylines for people who can't deliver.

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[Oddish]

Well, in his defense, he was wooden because one of the schmucks that ran the show told the actors playing humans to play it that way.

 

[Anwar]

Well, in his defense, he was wooden because one of the schmucks that ran the show told the actors playing humans to play it that way.

That's just a rumor Garret Wang made up to justify his lack of effort in HIS acting.

 

[Anwar]

In fact, the more I think about it the more I'm thinking that VOY shouldn't have been in the same timeframe as DS9. If we're ditching the Maquis angle to use Romulans or DQ aliens instead, then it could easily be set in the past or something. Maybe during TNG's run instead.

Or maybe that would overcomplicate things.

 

[Oddish]

Well, remember WHY they dumped their premise. Two words: TNG Lite. They even killed off their characters who weren't Good Little Starfleet: Seska, Jonas, and Suder, all toast. Literally in Jonas's case.

 

[Anwar]

Well, remember WHY they dumped their premise. Two words: TNG Lite. They even killed off their characters who weren't Good Little Starfleet: Seska, Jonas, and Suder, all toast. Literally in Jonas's case.

Yeah that was another problem. A show like VOY requires the writing staff to be not terribly interfered with.

NuBSG and Farscape? Aired on Sci-Fi oriented channels, weren't syndicated. This meant less viewership than big studios would like but it also meant more control by the writers themselves, and the shows were more consistent and tried to stay true to their premises more. Well, NuBSG fell apart after Season 2 but that's because their premise was faulty to begin with.

VOY's problem was being syndicated and seen as the new flagship show. As such it was more interfered with.

It doesn't help that most of the people involved had their reservations about the show and didn't think the "Lost Ship" thing was sustainable. I mean, no it's NOT sustainable which is why every other "Lost Ship" show always changed to a new plot partway through. But their writers at least had other ideas they always wanted to implement. The VOY writers who DID have new ideas got interfered with too much to implement them.

 

[Oddish]

"Lost Ship" is a ridiculous concept when you have not only unlimited resources but also better tech than the whole fleet. Most ships in the Alpha Quadrant had to settle for Type 2 Shuttlecraft, while Voyager was able to put together a Delta Flyer (which is bigger, tougher, better armed, and about five times faster) from scratch in a week.

 

[JesterFace]

Firstly, they needed a plot beyond "Lost ship trying to go home" because "Lost Ship" isn't a sustainable plot. After 2 seasons, it gets boring.

I remember thinking that perhaps getting back home could have taken about four years or so and rest of the series could have been going around Alpha Quadrant in more familiar surroundings.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, remember WHY they dumped their premise. Two words: TNG Lite. They even killed off their characters who weren't Good Little Starfleet: Seska, Jonas, and Suder, all toast. Literally in Jonas's case.

Yup. Be a good little Trek, never take any risk, and make sure that you are simple enough that anyone can jump in at any time and not feel lost. TNG lite, for sure, but also that is the big problem with TNG too. It's very sterile and clean and treats exploration as run of the mill. There's no driving force in TNG, but there was supposed to be one in VOY.

 

[Akiraprise]

but also that is the big problem with TNG too. It's very sterile and clean

I get the distinct impression from the PIC S3 trailers and info this go around for our TNG crew isn't going to be clean. A good thing? I dunno. Not sure I want to see Worf disemboweled or some other modern Trek gruesomeness akin to Icheb befall this crew.

 

[fireproof78]

I get the distinct impression from the PIC S3 trailers and info this go around for our TNG crew isn't going to be clean. A good thing? I dunno. Not sure I want to see Worf disemboweled or some other modern Trek gruesomeness akin to Icheb befall this crew.

Doubtful they'll go there. Once bitten, twice shy.

Plus, it's not like there isn't a vast swath of middle ground between sterile and clean and gruesome. Same with Voyager and changing the show. Too often I see the extremes rather striving for middle ground.

 

[Akiraprise]

Too often I see the extremes rather striving for middle ground.

I'm all for the middle ground. VOY definitely did not need to be nuBSG dark. UPN tossed a few tele-movies at VOY from time to time and if they would have had a bit more foresight mini arcs such as ENT S4 would have been the perfect way to show the crew in more dire situations, with even perhaps some lasting consequences, while still being "lite" enough for the corporate suits.

 

[Anwar]

There's a reason NuBSG burnt out after 2 seasons, it's just not a sustainable storyline. Plus even that show resorted to the "Reset Button" and had a certain status quo it always maintained.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm all for the middle ground. VOY definitely did not need to be nuBSG dark. UPN tossed a few tele-movies at VOY from time to time and if they would have had a bit more foresight mini arcs such as ENT S4 would have been the perfect way to show the crew in more dire situations, with even perhaps some lasting consequences, while still being "lite" enough for the corporate suits.

Exactly. I see too much of the "nuBSG" that is wrongly believed to be the model for Voyager. In my opinion, Farscape did it better. in my opinion, with an ongoing "threat" or "push forward" while allowing for episodic stories, which Farscape did quite well, including wacky hijinks which would provide a could mixed set of adventures, drama and some consequences.

Voyager being lost doesn't have to be the only drive for the show.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Okay, here's the outline of my imaginary "Voyager" rewrite.

Caretaker:

• Tuvok uses a fake name when undercover.
• Katheryn Janeway starts off as Voyager's first officer, serving under Captain Cavit. This is her first mission as a First Officer.
• Janeway has urged Captain Cavit to give Tom Paris a chance to redeem himself, and Cavit begrudgingly accepts because they need Paris for the mission.
• Cavit orders everyone "brace for impact!" but excludes himself from his own advice.
• Janeway, barely prepared to be a first officer on a generic mission, is now thrown into a position she wasn't prepared for. She outright states that she'll be doing a lot of improvising.
• The issue with the Array isn't so much saving the Ocampa specifically, but preventing the blundering Kazon from getting extremely powerful and already damaged technology. A point is also made about how risky it would be to try using it to get Voyager home, given that it killed half the crew the first time when it was working properly. Janeway's decision to blow up the Array is still controversial amongst the crew, but makes more sense.
• Janeway and Chakotay opt for a joint crew, like DS9. The Maquis get positions like First Officer and Chief Engineer, but remain in their Maquis uniforms, and less restricted by Starfleet regulations, allowing Janeway some loopholes in the Prime Directive.

The rest of Season 1:

• The Doctor must train a mix of Starfleet, Maquis, and Kes as the new medical staff. He is comically frustrated by them. Tom gets the holo-pimp-slap in front of his colleagues and crush Kes. Kes initially joined the class just looking for somewhere to feel useful, but her Ocampan memory, telepathy, and compassion propell her to top of the class. She becomes the Chief Medical Assistant, and co-teacher for the rest of the class.
• Kes has a much quirkier, eccentric personality (to humans), due both to being an alien and growing up underground. Her attraction to Neelix makes more sense. Tuvok, in addition to helping her expand her powers, is also helping her adjust to life among non-telepaths. (Teaching her out to block out the chaos of their un-cobtrolled thoughts, how not to accidentally project her own to others, and the non-telepath concept of "privacy.")
• The fact that the Kazon are imbeciles is added to their being a threat, because incompetent people with weapons are scary in their own way.
• Seska, an ingenious spy, only joins the Kazon temporarily, as they're her only option at the time. She plots to find better allies.

Season 2:

• B'Elanna has a stronger reaction to her BFF being a Cardassian spy. Her friendships with Harry and Tom really take off here.
• Naomi is the first kid born on Voyager, but not the last. Two crewmen get close while stranded in "Basics," and Voyager's first child conceived in the Delta Quadrant results.
• Jonas the traitor is a Starfleet. This throws off everyone who suspected a Maquis of being the malcontent. Jonas isn't just one more delinquent Maquis; he's a Starfleeter who wasn't prepared for the Delta Quadrant, and snapped under the pressure.
• "Threshold" remains minus the butchering of evolution. Every "Star Trek" needs its own "Spock Brain."
• The paternity of Seska's kid is in the air from the get-go. The conflict remains for Chakotay, without the ebd feeling like such a lazy retcon.
• "Resolutions" either doesn't happen, or at the very least, doesn't lobotomize Janeway and Chakotay's characters.
• Suder doesn't die, but remains imprisoned to give the heroes advice on outsmarting sociopaths, anger management advice to B'Elanna, and advice on empathy to Seven and the people mentoring her.
• Seska doesn't die either, but jumps ship to a new ally.

Season 3:

• Seska is alive, and has swapped out the Kazon for the Vidiuams. She keeps stalking Voyager, hopping from villain to villain for allies.
• "Before and After" remains, but isn't so quickly forgotten. Kes's warnings about the Krenim come up later, and she angsts over her decision to save Janeway and B'Elanna at the coat of Linnis and Andrew's existence. Also, the Year of Hell is due to a combination of Krenim, Borg and 8462; just a generally dangerous part of space.
• Kes also begins a dangerous affair with Suder. (Both are trying to reclaim lost telepathic abilities; both like gardening; and Kes likes exciting men.) Their interactions gradually cause Kes's powers to grow slightly more dangerous.

Season 4:

• Seven's outfit is shaped like the ones T'Pol had in the latter seasons of "Enterprise." Flattering without being ridiculous.
• Kes remains for the entire season, her powers growing gradually. She mentors the Doctor in mentoring Seven, and becomes the latter's first friend.
• The Year of Hell lasts the Season, but takes a while to really get bad. Also, it's not just the Krenim, but the Borg and 8472 attacking interchangeably, and sometimes at the same time.
• Seska joins the Krenim, eager to use their Timeship to her advantage. She eventually dies in some shocking manner, either assimilated by the Borg, giving the Collective a bank of new information about Voyager.
  
• The Delta Flyer is build during the Year of Hell, out of necessity.
• As parts of Voyager are blown off, and they trade or salvage alien and Borg tech, Voyager gradually looks more like a meadly of different technologies and styles.
• The increasing battles and losses push both Seven's emotional growth, and Kes's expanding powers.
• The point cones where Janeway and B'Elanna would've died, and Kes saves them. She then senses Linnis and Andrew vanish from the timeline for good. The emotional conflict fuels her powers to get more out of control. She ends up confiding some of this to, of all people, Seven.
• During the Year of Hell, the Maquis get word from Starfleet that their war is over. Since Maquis soldiers ate still useful during during Year of Hell, and Voyager has other fish to fry, the issue goes on the back burner. The Maquis channel their rage towards fighting the Krenim.
• Suder's heroic sacrifice happens here. Kes's emotional state worsens.
• Neelix and others have to keep Naomi and the other kid(s) distracted or sheltered from the situation.
• Season ends with Kes ascending, and pulling Voyager put of this dangerous hotspot of space. Seven says goodbye to her first friend, and it's emotional.

Seasons 5:

• Mostly remain as is, but with the undertone of Voyager rebuilding (literally and metaphorically) after the Year of Hell. It no longer resembles the plain Starfleet ship it started as, now having Borg and alien tech in various areas.
• With long-distance permission from Starfleet, Janeway officially integrates the Maquis, and they all don uniforms for the first time.
• Seven's mentor-student relationship and friendship with the Doctor really takes off here, with Kes gone.
• Tom and B'Elanna's relationship is put to the test by not having constant danger to distract them. This is their first time dating under relatively normal circumstances.

Season 6:
Mostly remains as is except:

• The Equinox 5 are recurring characters (and aren't all humans)
• "Muse" features a minor character, whose limited observations about the senior staff contribute to the Voyager plays.
• "In the Flesh" actually gad 8472 planning an invasion on Starfleet. Peace is made with some of the aliens, but others remain a threat.
• "Fury" is an epic two-parter. Kes's losses from "Before and After" are part of her motivations, and time-traveling abilities. And when going back in time, she teams up with a still-"Bajoran" Seska.

Season 7:

• Tom and B'Elanna's real marriage is shown
• "Human Error" features Seven's real relationship with Chakotay beginning
• We see Naomi meet her dad lomg-distance for the first time
• The future in "Endgame" is much worse, giving Admiral Janeway a better reason to change history.

 

[JesterFace]

About rewrites, the obvious would be that use the Caretaker array to get home but before that leave a bomb with a timer onboard the array?

 

[Oddish]

About rewrites, the obvious would be that use the Caretaker array to get home but before that leave a bomb with a timer onboard the array?

Alternatively, that is the original plan, but the Kazon board the Array and a savage shootout occurs. Some crucial plasma conduit is hit by weapons fire, and the Array begins exploding from within. Voyager escapes, the Kazon on the Array are incinerated because they have no transporter, the captain of the ship assures her she's made an enemy. Not as noble, but it establishes the series.

 

[Athena28]

Well, remember WHY they dumped their premise. Two words: TNG Lite. They even killed off their characters who weren't Good Little Starfleet: Seska, Jonas, and Suder, all toast. Literally in Jonas's case.

I agree. Would've been great if we got more of those characters.

 

[Athena28]

I remember thinking that perhaps getting back home could have taken about four years or so and rest of the series could have been going around Alpha Quadrant in more familiar surroundings.

Or at least give us a season of them adjusting to Earth again and Starfleet post-Dominion war and/or debriefings.

 

[fireproof78]

Cavit orders everyone "brace for impact!" but excludes himself from his own advice.

You had some solid points but I do hate this one exclusively. The captain dying should be sheer happenstance, capitalizing on Roddenberry's own idea of "People die." Him dying due to his own incompetence is just...no thank you.

About rewrites, the obvious would be that use the Caretaker array to get home but before that leave a bomb with a timer onboard the array?

They can't guarantee that the Kazon won't get to it.

Alternatively, that is the original plan, but the Kazon board the Array and a savage shootout occurs. Some crucial plasma conduit is hit by weapons fire, and the Array begins exploding from within. Voyager escapes, the Kazon on the Array are incinerated because they have no transporter, the captain of the ship assures her she's made an enemy. Not as noble, but it establishes the series.

I like this idea.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

...one section of Voyager was damaged, a section of the Maquis ship was damaged, and the only way to have a viable ship was to merge the undamaged sections of the two ships. The resulting merger resembling the Yeagar. Conceivably this might work because both ships originated in the Federation.

The ship might be even more of a patchwork if some of the components came from alien ships, such a Cardassian ships, Klingon ships, etc.

...Voyager could separate into two (or more) sections, and one (or more) of those sections was destroyed during the course of the journey home. Imagine you were used to the luxury and facilities of the Enterprise-D and then suddenly the saucer section was destroyed. Or you were on the Prometheus and only the top section survived, with its tiny nacelles and limited warp capabilities... would it be possible to retrofit one of the other section's warp core and nacelles? You could end up with some very interesting modified starship designs this way.

MARRY ME. Or better yet, marry each other, go back in time and take over writing for "Voyager." These concepts are so cool I hardly even have words.

The other thing that Voyager did was make the Borg incredibly petty. Rather than be a force for adding on cultures as they serve the larger collective whole. Instead, the Queen becomes focused on capturing Voyager, and destroying Unimatrix Zero by destroying the Collective's own ships.

One might say it was "First Contact" that made the Borg petty. Letting herself get sidetracked trying to seduce Data and Picard. To say nothing of using her time-travel device only on Eath, and not Romulus, Qo'nos, or the Founders. It seems even the Borg know that on "Star Trek," humans are special, and humans with names billed in the opening credits are even more special.

You had some solid points but I do hate this one exclusively. The captain dying should be sheer happenstance, capitalizing on Roddenberry's own idea of "People die." Him dying due to his own incompetence is just...no thank you.

Yeah, if this were 1995 and we were in the writing room I'd agree with you 100%. But by this point, Cavit's hilariously stupid death is as classic as "Threshold" or "Spock's Brain."