Hey, I never noticed that before....

[ZapBrannigan]

The fact that there's more than one episode where Picard nearly lets an entire planet die because of the Prime Directive doesn't speak well of TNG.

Regarding the idea that the course of events "untouched by us" is always the right one, someone should have asked Gene Roddenberry what was so sacred about that. If we are there on the scene and can stop something terrible from happening, then (as Spock would say in "Assignment: Earth"), surely we were part of what was supposed to happen. The religious would say we were "put there for a reason."

Extending the Prime Directive to the point where it prevents rescue missions, instead of just protecting societies from exotic capability, seems like a simplistic, knee-jerk way to apply the rule. It suggests we have no right to be out there exploring in the first place, because we're just a contaminant. It's a rule born of self-loathing, and Kirk wasn't having it. He always looked for the most he could do by law, while Picard looked for the least.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I might've believed that once upon a time, but post the female American politicians I've now seen - from Sarah Palin to the ones in the Tea Party and now Qanon - I'm convinced gender makes little if any difference in how well people handle power. We're just all short-sighted and self involved and often stupid if not outright nuts.

I meant that they could do so, not that they always would.

 

[Doug Otte]

Regarding the idea that the course of events "untouched by us" is always the right one, someone should have asked Gene Roddenberry what was so sacred about that. If we are there on the scene and can stop something terrible from happening, then (as Spock would say in "Assignment: Earth"), surely we were part of what was supposed to happen. The religious would say we were "put there for a reason."

Extending the Prime Directive to the point where it prevents rescue missions, instead of just protecting societies from exotic capability, seems like a simplistic, knee-jerk way to apply the rule. It suggests we have no right to be out there exploring in the first place, because we're just a contaminant. It's a rule born of self-loathing, and Kirk wasn't having it. He always looked for the most he could do by law, while Picard looked for the least.

I need to watch Pen Pals again. But I remember Picard raising that point as a rhetorical device, and the other senior staff then debated it. I don't know if Picard intended to use that absolutism as the final decision. As he did many other times, he wanted the entire staff to come up with a reasonable solution.

 

[dupersuper]

I need to watch Pen Pals again. But I remember Picard raising that point as a rhetorical device, and the other senior staff then debated it. I don't know if Picard intended to use that absolutism as the final decision.

He was seconds away from leaving the planet to die. The only thing that saved the entire species was that he had Data cut off communication then and there which meant Data had to isolate the frequency he was using with Picard there and Picard heard the little kid begging for help, growing his artificial heart three sizes...though in Homeward we learn that this was a temporary condition.

 

[UssGlenn]

Regarding the idea that the course of events "untouched by us" is always the right one, someone should have asked Gene Roddenberry what was so sacred about that. If we are there on the scene and can stop something terrible from happening, then (as Spock would say in "Assignment: Earth"), surely we were part of what was supposed to happen. The religious would say we were "put there for a reason."

Just reminding everyone that the opposite of the prime directive isn't "help those in need" it's "The White Man's Burden".

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Just reminding everyone that the opposite of the prime directive isn't "help those in need" it's "The White Man's Burden".

I just went and read that Kipling poem, and boy does it serve as a dire warning against nation-building adventures.

 

[Mytran]

The only thing that saved the entire species was that he had Data cut off communication then and there which meant Data had to isolate the frequency he was using with Picard there and Picard heard the little kid begging for help

Data's actions were deeply subversive in that episode - all he had to do was order the computer to un-tag that frequency, certainly no need to bring it up on the screen and broadcast it through the speakers.
But I think Data knew what he was doing; he's more emotionally manipulative than often given credit for!

 

[Doug Otte]

He was seconds away from leaving the planet to die. The only thing that saved the entire species was that he had Data cut off communication then and there which meant Data had to isolate the frequency he was using with Picard there and Picard heard the little kid begging for help, growing his artificial heart three sizes...though in Homeward we learn that this was a temporary condition.

Thanks for reminding and correcting me! I used to love that episode, but I obviously forgot key details.

 

[Noname Given]

The interesting thing is: in the TOS area it was even stated that the prime directive wasn't enforced until a survey of the planet had been done.

In TOS S2 A Private Little War, it was Lieutenant Kirk himself who contacted Tyree, told Tyree exactly who and what he was, swore Tyree to silence, and then wrote a survey report to Starfleet indicating that they should enforce the Prime Directive for this planet.

In TOS S2 The Omega Glory, Captain Ron Tracy tells Kirk the reason he survived was because he remained behind to arrange for the planet survey with the Village Elders. (and yes it's interesting that Ron Tracy is effectively convicted of violating the prime directive because he used his phaser to defend the Village from a Yang attack); but in practice in the TOS era, the prime directive pretty much only applied if the inhabitants of the planet were unaware that life existed on other worlds, and/or were unaware of space travel.
^^^
If for whatever reason, the inhabitants work primitive but we're aware of life and other worlds or were aware that other beings were able to travel through space; then the prime directive usually didn't apply. (Plus there also seemed to be an exception to application of the prime directive if a planet was in a strategically advantaged location, or had some resource that the Federation needed.)

In the TNG era the Prime Directive was automatically applied to any non-member world, or any Star Nation that wasn't an ally of the Federation, which was honestly ridiculous because if that were the case how did they make contact or find out if a world might want to become a member of the Federation?

(And sorry for the thread derailment as I know this is a strictly TOS thread but yeah that was one of my big pet peeves with the TNG era in general, and another reason I really prefer the TOS era over any other era of the Star Trek franchise.)

 

[JonnyQuest037]

TNG reflected the cautiousness of the Post-Vietnam era of the U.S.

 

[Pauln6]

The interesting thing is: in the TOS area it was even stated that the prime directive wasn't enforced until a survey of the planet had been done.

In TOS S2 A Private Little War, it was Lieutenant Kirk himself who contacted Tyree, told Tyree exactly who and what he was, swore Tyree to silence, and then wrote a survey report to Starfleet indicating that they should enforce the Prime Directive for this planet.

In TOS S2 The Omega Glory, Captain Ron Tracy tells Kirk the reason he survived was because he remained behind to arrange for the planet survey with the Village Elders. (and yes it's interesting that Ron Tracy is effectively convicted of violating the prime directive because he used his phaser to defend the Village from a Yang attack); but in practice in the TOS era, the prime directive pretty much only applied if the inhabitants of the planet were unaware that life existed on other worlds, and/or were unaware of space travel.
^^^
If for whatever reason, the inhabitants work primitive but we're aware of life and other worlds or were aware that other beings were able to travel through space; then the prime directive usually didn't apply. (Plus there also seemed to be an exception to application of the prime directive if a planet was in a strategically advantaged location, or had some resource that the Federation needed.)

In the TNG era the Prime Directive was automatically applied to any non-member world, or any Star Nation that wasn't an ally of the Federation, which was honestly ridiculous because if that were the case how did they make contact or find out if a world might want to become a member of the Federation?

(And sorry for the thread derailment as I know this is a strictly TOS thread but yeah that was one of my big pet peeves with the TNG era in general, and another reason I really prefer the TOS era over any other era of the Star Trek franchise.)

I think the issue evolved into whether they were a warp capable species.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

In the TNG era the Prime Directive was automatically applied to any non-member world, or any Star Nation that wasn't an ally of the Federation, which was honestly ridiculous because if that were the case how did they make contact or find out if a world might want to become a member of the Federation?

(And sorry for the thread derailment as I know this is a strictly TOS thread but yeah that was one of my big pet peeves with the TNG era in general, and another reason I really prefer the TOS era over any other era of the Star Trek franchise.)

TNG reflected the cautiousness of the Post-Vietnam era of the U.S.

Post-Vietnam is correct, only through the lens of New Agey hacks who wanted Star Trek to mirror their simplistic guiding light that "America / West aka Starfleet = Evil", so any first contact stories were compromised by the self-inflicted belief that they posed a risk to the native culture (hence the kind of TNG stories viewers were subjected to).

 

[dupersuper]

I think the issue evolved into whether they were a warp capable species.

Which I'm fine with as long as they make an exception for pre-warp civilizations that have already had contact with aliens and didn't just stand by if a pre-warp world was about to be completely wiped out by an asteroid or other natural disaster.

 

[fireproof78]

It's just their fate.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Watching "The Enemy Within" on H&I tonight I noticed that the viewscreen on the bridge is completely blank during the climatic scene. Weird that they missed that in 1966, and weirder still that they didn't add in a starfield or the planet on the viewscreen when they remastered the episode in 2006.

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd736.jpg

 

[GNDN18]

Watching "The Enemy Within" on H&I tonight I noticed that the viewscreen on the bridge is completely blank during the climatic scene. Weird that they missed that in 1966, and weirder still that they didn't add in a starfield or the planet on the viewscreen when they remastered the episode in 2006.

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd736.jpg

I agree that it’s odd, but I wonder if it was intentional. In WNMHGB, Kirk orders “Screen on,” when takes the con. The world’s most annoying screensaver was shown just before that, which might explain why the screen here is white. At least that’s an in-universe explanation.

On the other hand, I can surmise that IRL a) rear-projection was planned but scrapped because the shoot reportedly ran long; b) the planned matte work was dropped because of lack of time or problems with the blocking and/or lighting; or c) the need to get episodes on the air to avoid 60 minutes of test pattern resulted in the blank screen. Any combination of the above might have occurred, come to think of it.

 

[publiusr]

Watching "The Enemy Within" on H&I tonight I noticed that the viewscreen on the bridge is completely blank during the climatic scene. Weird that they missed that in 1966, and weirder still that they didn't add in a starfield or the planet on the viewscreen when they remastered the episode in 2006.

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd736.jpg

Power Save

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

How about a menu?

Or a test pattern?

 

[Tango]

In "Where No Man Has Gone Before", early on in the episode when Kirk, Mitchell, and Spock first arrive on the bridge, the first shot is from inside the turbolift. Yeoman Smith is waiting for them just outside the doors, and when K/M/S exit Smith follows them. As she does that, a blue-shirted crewmember slips very closely behind her and enters the turbolift. The very next shot is seen from a different angle inside the bridge, and shows the same scene... but a few seconds earlier! Once again we see Smith move up behind K/M/S as they leave the turbo lift and the blue-shirted crewmember is further away from Smith and the turbolift door and has not yet reached her or it.

Maybe it was deliberate, but it is a very noticeable backwards time jump! I'm not sure if it is the same take using two different cameras (how many cameras did they use?) or two separate takes. I'd have to examine it a lot more closely to be sure.

This is Star Trek after all. Almost as if the production was hinting to the audience "Time weirdness? You ain't seen nothing yet!"

 

[1001001]

I’m not sure what you’re looking at, but the original thread is still very active. The last post was a week ago.

Merging now.