Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Warped9, Aug 1, 2015.
Some one hasn't seen Insurrection or The Pegasus...
The exceptions prove the point...
You did say "ever."
And Janeway didn't have an admiral to disobey.
Until the movies did Kirk only disobey orders in AmokTime? I know he delayed and took on passengers but I regarded these as pushing the boundaries.
Kirk's rep as a maverick cowboy who did whatever the hell he wanted and damn the orders comes from the movies. And not even that many of them. The two times he truly went against orders was to save Spock. General Chang's statement of Kirk "violating the chain of command whenever it suited him" was courtroom bluster that was taken seriously by people.
Kirk was pretty by the book but the book did allow some leeway because the whole point was that Kirk was too far out to keep consulting with Starfleet (unless the plot required it). Even when he bucked the prime directive, he didn't do it on a whim and always justified or agonized over it.
Perception is reality. Watching the 1/6 hearings now about ppl who were quite convinced they were restoring democracy that had been subverted by a stolen election. Though I don’t like it, Cowboy Kirk is the general perception.
season 1 of Picard in almost its entirety is basically disobeying starfleet's orders.
Or the aftermath of I, Borg.
Sorry - I haven't seen Picard yet.
And unfortunately I have seen Insurrection and yes ta da finally Picard questions a dumb order.
Also come to think of it there's that episode where the creatures took over the Admirals so I suppose Picard disobeyed orders them but then again they weren't really Admirals at that stage.
Now that was a very accurate assessment of Kirk. That "cowboy" crap was introduced (in dialogue) by TNG...because Berman and company's obvious attempt to place Kirk as the would-be negative side of a comparison to the snoring, looking-at-you-down-his-nose tea drinker.
I think Janeway speaks derisively of those days and Kirk in particular, when compared to TOS, VOY has lots of cowboyish or renegade decisions by the captain. Not contradicting admirals, but they were sure on their own makin it up as they went along, torturing a dude, etc.
Can you imagine how boring it would be if the episode showed Kirk and co waiting a month for instructions on how to proceed on a specific sensitive issue? Everybody just going about their business making work to keep busy while they waited for orders and being on pins and needles the whole time?
Actually, I partially take that back; one episode like that as a character study, where they're told expressly to wait for orders in a particular situation, and people debate and wait, and stew over it might be interesting. But not every episode.
Had an interesting insight about "Where No Man Has Gone Before" - I think it's kind of neat how they had Dehner, the female character, be the one who stops the out of control Mitchell. Showing that women, when given access to god-like power, were able to exercise self-control and make moral choices.
Granted, she was portrayed as giving off a cold and professional air before she became affected, and she had the added benefit of seeing what the power did to Gary (a living example of what not to do). But it's an interesting contrast to the supposed portrayal of other women/beliefs that women in the show as emotional and overly dramatic.
I might've believed that once upon a time, but post the female American politicians I've now seen - from Sarah Palin to the ones in the Tea Party and now Qanon - I'm convinced gender makes little if any difference in how well people handle power. We're just all short-sighted and self involved and often stupid if not outright nuts.
Except for "Caretaker" and the very end of VOY's run, Janeway was the de facto admiral and indeed Starfleet C-in-C. She didn't have anyone to overrule her decisions and the final say rested with her. That enormous responsibility (and how Kate Mulgrew effectively played the toll it took) is part of what makes VOY my second-favorite of the Trek series.
I guess you haven't watched TNG.
(I can't speak to VOY as after the first season I couldn't watch anymore of it.)
You missed a lot of entertaining scenes with Seven and the Doctor. They were both great characters, and together they were dynamite. But none of this happened until VOY realized that "Kes" wasn't working and they had to replace her.
You mean... you judged a Trek series based on its first season?! That only works with TOS. Apart from TOS, season 1 is the time for a leisurely, aimless sort of farting around, trying out whims, giving characters random personality characteristics to find out from viewers which ones are irritating... no hurry to get things right... Season 1 doesn't count! (I'm laying it on thick here,
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