Have any of the novels ever just made you mad? (
- Thread starter darkwing_duck1
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For me, my only real beef with Destiny was that a couple of times, Mack had Ezri engage in "colorful metaphors".
Somehow, Ezri'd always struck me as too sweet for that. But to be fair, the relaunch writers had already botched her up completely since "Mission Gamma", giving her a "hard edge" to make her "cool" (as if she wasn't already).
To his credit, Mack did restore a bit of her finer, cuter qualities (I got a kick out of Ezri hugging Worf tight, like a little girl...and digging into a sundae while she sat in the conference with the TNG folks in the end. "Now that's the Ezri I know!"
)--so, kudos to him on that.
It's just...the scene with her chewing out her security chief in Sickbay didn't really seem in character for her. IMANSHO, of course.
Somehow, Ezri'd always struck me as too sweet for that. But to be fair, the relaunch writers had already botched her up completely since "Mission Gamma", giving her a "hard edge" to make her "cool" (as if she wasn't already).
To his credit, Mack did restore a bit of her finer, cuter qualities (I got a kick out of Ezri hugging Worf tight, like a little girl...and digging into a sundae while she sat in the conference with the TNG folks in the end. "Now that's the Ezri I know!"
)--so, kudos to him on that.It's just...the scene with her chewing out her security chief in Sickbay didn't really seem in character for her. IMANSHO, of course.
^I read Destiny before I watched DS9, so I liked the way Mack wrote Ezri, but after watching DS9 I somewhat agree. To me, her 'transformation' was a result of her realizing that with all the experience Dax has, she can do more than Counseling. I agree with that, but the execution just wasn't very convincing to me. I like Captain Dax, but I can't really see the 'bridge' between ShowEzri and BookEzri. If it was more gradual, maybe. Nobody stays the same forever but most people don't change at the drop of a hat either.
On another note, I love Lonnoc Kedair.
On another note, I love Lonnoc Kedair.
yeah, i have to agree with the above posters. although i did read the relaunch there is still a huge difference between lieutenant (show and relaunch) Ezri and captain ezri.
but differences aside i loved the way she turned out. but it really is true that its hard to picture ezri as the hardcore/badass captain type. not exactly a command presence if you see my point.
but differences aside i loved the way she turned out. but it really is true that its hard to picture ezri as the hardcore/badass captain type. not exactly a command presence if you see my point.
I'd seen all of DS9, but hadn't read any of the DS9-R novels when I read Destiny. I just knew from internet scuttlebutt that it was set about seven years after the show ended, and Ezri had changed a lot, taken a new path and become captain of a ship.
I didn't have a problem with it, I thought she was written well. I could see much of the Ezri I knew underneath all the badass captain stuff. I remember thinking she'd come a long way during some scene or other when she was in her ready room and totally owning it, rather than blending into the background or weeping in the corridor outside like she did on DS9. She had the command presence in Destiny.
I didn't have a problem with it, I thought she was written well. I could see much of the Ezri I knew underneath all the badass captain stuff. I remember thinking she'd come a long way during some scene or other when she was in her ready room and totally owning it, rather than blending into the background or weeping in the corridor outside like she did on DS9. She had the command presence in Destiny.
^Oh, I agree, don't get me wrong. Unlike in the Relaunch, the Ezri in Destiny seemed like she'd grown, instead of her being fundamentally transformed. I liked seeing her in charge--and, indeed, Captain Ezri is the heroine of most of my current fanfic.
But like I said...I still had a hard time accepting her chew-out in the Sickbay scene. (And...in my tales, I make it a point to restore the rest of the childlike charm the Relaunch had tried to breed out of her....)
But like I said...I still had a hard time accepting her chew-out in the Sickbay scene. (And...in my tales, I make it a point to restore the rest of the childlike charm the Relaunch had tried to breed out of her....)
I don't remember the scene, but I do recall the context:
Things are hectic; worlds being destroyed; starships on their own; not only Borg, but Hirogen attacking....
A commander needs to be stern; and, if something isn't moving as quickly as it (or in this case, he or she) should...some comments made need to be made...
if we are thinking of the same thing, the "chew-out", as Rush so gracefully put it, was when Kedair admitted FF kills, or causing FF kills more precisely.
and yeah i completely agree with you. certain "harsh" expressions are sometimes needed. but its just so not-ezri if you see my point. i have no problem with her cursing but still, i have a hard time picturing that cute 21 yearold counselor swearing. but that's just me...
^That's the one.
I really think Ezri could have gotten the point across without telling him to get his a-- back on the bridge, etc. The whole speech has a tone of the modern-day stereotypical tough guy.
By contrast, if you watch a lot of Nicole de Boer's work, you can often see her showing a lot of rage, without resorting to verbal slam-downs and "colorful metaphors". She slows down her speach a bit, her voice lowers, and it seems to break a little bit, implying an intense emotion she's somehow managing to keep inside. That's her personality--and it works. A kind of "don't press me any more...or you're really going to get it."
Seeing that, I'd think a simple--"Kedair...We don't have time for this. Now, you can soul-search later...but I need you at your post...at your best...right now. Is that clear...Lieutenant?"--with narrowed eyes, would suffice. I'd say that would spook Kedair into action quite nicely.
BTW...I'm also not too keen on Lonnoc's cheap shot at Ezri's counseling skills. Considering one of my DS9 tales...I'd say Dr. Simon Tarses (who I'm sure was also in Sickbay in that scene) would have something to say about that....
I really think Ezri could have gotten the point across without telling him to get his a-- back on the bridge, etc. The whole speech has a tone of the modern-day stereotypical tough guy.
By contrast, if you watch a lot of Nicole de Boer's work, you can often see her showing a lot of rage, without resorting to verbal slam-downs and "colorful metaphors". She slows down her speach a bit, her voice lowers, and it seems to break a little bit, implying an intense emotion she's somehow managing to keep inside. That's her personality--and it works. A kind of "don't press me any more...or you're really going to get it."
Seeing that, I'd think a simple--"Kedair...We don't have time for this. Now, you can soul-search later...but I need you at your post...at your best...right now. Is that clear...Lieutenant?"--with narrowed eyes, would suffice. I'd say that would spook Kedair into action quite nicely.
BTW...I'm also not too keen on Lonnoc's cheap shot at Ezri's counseling skills. Considering one of my DS9 tales...I'd say Dr. Simon Tarses (who I'm sure was also in Sickbay in that scene) would have something to say about that....
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^Just for the record, Kedair's a woman. And yes, not everyone has to resort to screaming/shouting/cursing/threatening to get their point across. It's the difference between Picard and Archer, or Ezri and Jadzia.
I don't recall the 'cheap shot', would you mind refreshing my memory?
And yes, not everyone has to resort to screaming/shouting/cursing/threatening to get their point across. It's the difference between Picard and Archer, or Ezri and Jadzia. I don't recall the 'cheap shot', would you mind refreshing my memory?
EDITED: full quote from destiny: “It’s a damned good thing you switched to the command track, Captain. Because if this was you as a counselor, you suck at it.”
yeah, she's got a freakishly scary way of looking at someone when she's angry. that's for certain. saw ms deBoer the other day i Haven (not sure what to think of that series btw.) and well, i wasnt sold by the superpower thing, but i'm telling you. if that scene was real i wouldn't want to be the guy in front of her. that look she's got, not just in haven but othervise reminds me of my grandfather. now that was a man who could stare down anyone. god rest his soul.
well, she kind of deserved what she got so i disagree on that one. yes, it wasn't very ezri, but i assume even she has her limits.Seeing that, I'd think a simple--"Mr. Kedair...We don't have time for this. Now, you can soul-search later...but I need you at your post...at your best...right now. Is that clear...Lieutenant?"--with narrowed eyes, would suffice. I'd say that would spook Kedair into action quite nicely.
yeah, i must say she was WAY out of line on that one. even for starfleet officers. sure, she was under pressure, and she had pretty rough conscience issues. but still thats not a valid reason to snap at your CO in that manner... to be frank, i would have brigged her for 24 hours...
I gave the answer but someone had already answered the question. I took the comment as a "lets get rid of the tension " comment. No you are right it was not the best thing to say to your CO but I don't think Ezri took it as bad thing. I don't think the ladies were taking each other's comments too seriously. And I don't think Kendir would say that again either.
Yeppers. Also, YouTube has "Ties That Bind" posted--along with the "shower scene" individually. In that scene (and the very beginning of "Part 9"), we get some darn good examples of Nicole as "A Woman Scorned":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DrGEecG3qw
(Try not to be distracted by the fact that Miss de Boer's in a towel...focus on her expression.
)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7Ge5kPZOdQ&feature=related
Well...I'd say that's what she wanted, so she could "recover" in there. And Ezri'd be darnned if she was going to satisfy her like that.
Yeppers. Also, YouTube has "Ties That Bind" posted--along with the "shower scene" individually. In that scene (and the very beginning of "Part 9"), we get some darn good examples of Nicole as "A Woman Scorned":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DrGEecG3qw
(Try not to be distracted by the fact that Miss de Boer's in a towel...focus on her expression.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7Ge5kPZOdQ&feature=related
yeah, thats the exact look i was talking about. i cant believe i havent seen that movie before. EDIT: god damn. cant find it anywhere... voddler, netflix, even torrents sites... and they don't play it on Hallmark (US) anymore...well, you have a good point there. still, i having a real problem with that loose attitude in starfleet. not just in destiny but overall. they're serve on starships, not cruise liners. then again, i wouldn't have made a very good star trek captain...Well...I'd say that's what she wanted, so she could "recover" in there. And Ezri'd be darnned if she was going to satisfy her like that.
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Wow I loved all 3 of these, shows how people are different I guess!
I quite enjoyed The Children of Kings and Full Circle, put down Losing the Peace after a rehash of the Thalaron scenes from Destiny: Book III.
Well, what's the other strategic option? You've got one bottleneck where you can surround the Borg and, ideally, choke off their advance. So the Borg might send more ships than you can stop. So what? Give up on the bottleneck? Now you've got a massive fleet, and you aren't going to use them to try to stop the Borg altogether, and instead will let the enemy pass into the Quadrant unchallenged because, hey, they'll probably do it anyway. Do you then use the fleet, or a few large pieces of it, to track down individual Borg ships or fleets once they break and try to take them down one by one, hoping the Borg run out of ships before the Allies run out of planets?
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