Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Trek

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I had not seen that interview yet, I stand corrected. Not a smart move though, to bring something up like that already in an interview. Would've liked to be surprised during the novel.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

It would probably be in the blurb anyway.

By the way the Vong War was much more multifaceted too with the Peace Brigade doing a lot of the dirty work.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

It really amazes me how many "fans" just don't seem to understand how Trek stories work.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with you, JD, but the same argument could be made for "fans" accusing each other of enjoying the franchise wrong.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I'd say a good analogy would be Cold War Berlin. I could imagine the TP mounting an equivalent of the Berlin Airlift...

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

The problem with making Earthbound analogies is that space is unimaginably vast and empty. Even with FTL propulsion and sensors allowing interstellar space to be monitored and defended, it would be prohibitive to build enough ships, stations, beacons, etc. to control every cubic light-year of that yawning emptiness. Realistically an interstellar power's "territory" would consist of the star systems it occupies and the regular travel routes between them, rather than being a solid volume. So there could be a lot of interpenetration.

Heck, the Typhon Pact's territory is already in multiple discrete pieces:



And you can see on that map how other powers' territories intertwine. Keep in mind also that in the wake of the Borg invasion, there's a big mostly empty hole in the middle of that map, former Federation and Klingon worlds depopulated by the Borg, so the solid blue there is even more inaccurate than it was before.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Funny thing, I picked up Children of the Storm this afternoon, having not read a voyager book since "The Garden", as the tv series failed to show any signs of improving, and in fact began going the other way. But seeing that every time I've seen this book being alluded to here the praise was effusive, I figured I'd give it a shot.

I loved everything on the Demeter & the Quirinal, and all the characters aboard both, and connected more with them then anyone who has been manning the enterprise-e hotseats for the past ten years.

The Voyager regulars still seem pretty bland, but a lot better then most of the tv series eps. Kim & Paris seemed to be stewing over some old storyline that sounded really terrible.

Gwyn & Drafar both seem pretty fun, and as I'm always a fan of blunt charcters, Cambridge was great. His line about patel's flame not igniting cracked me up.

Eden's the only new character a lot of time was spent on who I didn't particularly like, though her mystery seems fairly interesting ( digged the whole stick->brain warning ).

All in all, good stuff, may well track back to full circle and read through. Would recommend to other voyager haters just on the basis that this is well written exploratory trek. And if you're thinking that you hate voyager more then I do, that'd be a tall order.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

^Good call Zarkon. Nice to see you enjoyed the book. I think it was one of the best ST books of last year. Kristen Beyer has done a great job with that series

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I agree & think the Pact are something that has really made TrekLit interresting. I would have hated it if right after we get done with the Borg invasion the stories turned into a Yuuzhan Vong direction of a new enemy invading or being a threat. For me the intreague of The Pact is far more enjoyable then a new enemy because we're getting a chance to peer into the different Pact members a little closer.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I'm really glad you enjoyed it. Pretty damn surprising, isn't it?

And, for the record, I suspect you'll think that the Tom/Harry stuff is a lot better with the context from prior novels.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I don't think it's possible to enjoy something wrong. As long as you enjoy it, that's really all that matters.
EDIT: But at the same time, it is entirely possible to misunderstand the themes and style of stories that a franchise follows, and that is exactly what seems to be happening here.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

You forgot one possibility - that the misunderstanding lies on your part, JD.

The crapsack world/dark atmosphere in the typhon pact line has been ongoing for years, with no sign for changing; it's far past the point where you could call it transitory.

But you (and others) - are still saying that's not the intention of the editors/writers for this line of books - because you think they will soon change to following themes encountered in previous trek.
That's not an objective analysis of the typhon pact books, JD; it's a hope for the future. And your 'arguments' are generalities, lacking concrete examples from the typhon pact line.


PS - Interesting:
Here you are paying lip service in hoping for traditional trek themes to make a reappearance - while obviously enjoying the current typhon pact direction;
In the upcoming 'Cold equations' you hope for these themes not to appear - as you made clear in the thread discussing these books.

You obviously quite enjoy battlestar galactica-like themes and stories. At least, you have no problem with them replacing the traditional trek themes.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

FTL sensors (with range measured in light-years, as seen in canon and lit) and propulsion allow for every cubic light-year of that space to be monitored and fleets stationed in star systems (staging points) to reach any point of that space with ease.
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO FILL THE ENTIRE SPACE WITH SHIPS/BEACONS/ETC IN ORDER TO CLAIM IT/PROTECT IT EFFECTIVELY.

For us, interstellar space is unimaginably vast.
For someone with FTL sensors and propulsion, it's like earth at the beginning of the 19th century.

Canon strategy supports this:
Consider how the federation was monitoring the entire romulan border for CLOACKED ships.
How there were definite borders during the dominion war.
How, after conquering Betazed, the dominion could strike at federation worlds previously safe.

Andor is a typhon pact stronghold deep inside federation space, bypassing borders and defense measures, allowing the typhon pact a staging area to strike with ease at what now is a vulnerable target - the core of the federation.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

1. Andor has not yet joined the Typhon Pact. We've seen an indication that it might in publicity materials, but publicity materials are sometimes erroneous, or new directions are taken in the writing of a novel. We will not have confirmation that Andor has joined the Typhon Pact until Michael A. Martin's novel, and/or David R. George III's duology, is released.

2. Even if Andor joins the Typhon Pact, what makes you think they'll be able to "bypass defense measures" and import military hardware into Andorian space? The Federation and Typhon Pact may well end up working out a deal wherein the Pact can only move certain kinds of ships and cargo through Federation space into Andorian space, through specific space lanes that are permanently patrolled and inspected by Federation authorities.

3. Even if the Pact were to try to move military hardware/personnel through Federation space into Andorian space in order to have a staging ground for Federation core world hostilities -- what makes you think the Andorians would consent to that, or want that to happen? Andor might end up joining the Pact out of economic necessity or convenience, yet have no desire for the Pact to launch any sort of attack on the Federation from their territory. (Indeed, a push for such an attack may well alienate Andor from the Pact and prompt them to leave it.)

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Sci

1. An interview with the writer of the book is rarely erroneous:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...an+fallen+gods
"Fallen Gods explores the devastating effect that Andor’s surprise decision to join the Typhon Pact is having on Lieutenant Pava and the other Andorian members of Will Riker’s crew".
The typhon pact acquiring Andor as a new member is a near-certainty.
In PoD, the federation grew weaker by losing Andor.
In Titan-FG, the typhon pact grows stronger by gaining Andor - including all the federation technological and military secrets Andor (one of the founding, most important members of the federation) has, its strategic position in federation space, its BILLIONS of citizens and their abilities, etc.

2. Because Andor is now a sovereign nation, not a hostage, an isolated prisoner. You propose effectively imposing a blockade around Andor (under an euphemistic name). The typhon pact - and Andor - will never (realistically) agree to it; and the typhon pact has the teeth to enforce its refusal to abide by an economically/militarily inferior federation's terms (meant to save said federation from a catastrophic strategic position).

3. The andorians consented to enter the typhon pact. AFTER most members of the typhon pact proved to be really nasty (supporting planetery genocide, execution of dissidents, supporting terrorism, etc). AFTER most said members proved to be hostile to the federation (in fact, the andorians are fan-girling over the tholians, who are fanatically anti-federation).
If the andorians had a problem with these traits, they would not have voted to enter the pact. In fact, considering their decision and what it says about their mind-set, the values and loyalties of the previously-underdeveloped andorians and the federation's are rather incompatible.
And they did vote - it's made clear in PoD such decisions are made by a population referendum:
AKA there is no secret plan to enter the pact in order to bring it to the moral 'light' (unless you assume andorians have a group mind and this plan is followed by billions of people).
AND the pact's aggressivity and amorality, as it turns out, doesn't alienate the andorians.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Therin of Andor

Your post is an exercise in non-sequiturs and trying your best to misinterpret as much as possible:

JD - and you - fail to see that the typhon pact line does not contain/contains very little of the optimism/etc themes previously usual in trek.
What it does contain is crapsack world themes.

6 books (and at least one, probably 3 more with the same tone) is NOT a young arc.

The books speak to the intentions of the editors/writers. There was no stated intention on the part of the editors/most writers to make the typhon pact line more 'optimistic' - unless you're talking about Christopher, on this board (and in his related books); he seems to be alone in his views among editors/etc.

There was no 'boldly going', 'new life', etc in the typhon pact line.

I know the tone of the books because I read them.
JD - and you - are unable to come with concrete examples for your assertions (unlike me for mine) because there are few or none in the typhon pact line.
As such you recourse to weak 'generalization' arguments, realistically highly improbable hypotheticals, etc.

etc, etc

The only way to make Andor's decision to enter the typhon pact NOT sabotage the previously implied values of andorians (morality/loyalty) is if the federation launched a military attack against Andor and the andorians joined the typhon pact in self defense.

Lacking such extreme circumstances, the andorians joining the pact proves they have little problem with the pact's aggressivity and amorality; proves they have little loyalty toward the federation; etc.
This, regardless of how well written the book will be.

 

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Therin of Andor

So - you graduated to selective reading, eh?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsackWorld


Go ahead - list all these optimistic events.
I only have to list the main pessimistic/crapsack world events in the typhon pact line to show the evident - they far outweigh the positive/optimistic.