Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Trek

[MHJH]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Not to mention having Lt. Hawk apparently killed by Gorn despite it being mentioned in several novels included the previous Titan book that the Borg did it just to give Keru a reason not to like Gorn (which was another way in which Seize the Fire rehashed Synthesis).

From the book:

Keru nodded silently. Having only recently come to terms with the death of his life partner, Sean Hawk, during a Gorn assault some nine years ago, he felt no need to pry any further into S’syrixx’s grief. Keru saw that Qontallium, whose own loss to the Borg was far more recent and raw, was doing the same, his large eyes appearing to moisten with unshed tears.

I'm pretty sure from the context we can put that one down to a copy editing mistake rather than Martin willfully ignoring continuity.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Anyway back to the Typhon Pact stuff I hope Martin does better with the next Titan book because Seize the Fire felt way too much like a rehash of Synthesis to me. Plus it was kind of weird that the Gorn went from generally good relations with the federation which makes you think at least one Pact member some what likes them to suddenly still mad about Cestus III.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

From the book:

Keru nodded silently. Having only recently come to terms with the death of his life partner, Sean Hawk, during a Gorn assault some nine years ago, he felt no need to pry any further into S’syrixx’s grief. Keru saw that Qontallium, whose own loss to the Borg was far more recent and raw, was doing the same, his large eyes appearing to moisten with unshed tears.

I'm pretty sure from the context we can put that one down to a copy editing mistake rather than Martin willfully ignoring continuity.

I agree -- it was clearly meant to say "Borg assault," but somebody had a textual hiccup. Given how many times the word "Gorn" was surely typed in the course of writing the manuscript, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mike's brain meant to type "Borg" but his hands typed "Gorn" out of force of habit (indeed, I almost made that exact same mistake while typing this sentence). And it just never got caught in the editing process. It seems unlikely, but often a typo or two can get overlooked even after dozens of editing passes by multiple people. Especially in a case like this where it's a word that an editor or proofreader would be used to seeing in the manuscript and thus wouldn't necessarily jump out. (I recently found a howler in the Only Superhuman galley pages that I'd failed to notice in the seven years since I first wrote the scene: "Sarkar crossed your arms." That’s right, she reached out of the book and crossed the reader’s arms.)

 

[j3067]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Anyway back to the Typhon Pact stuff I hope Martin does better with the next Titan book because Seize the Fire felt way too much like a rehash of Synthesis to me.

Seize the Fire was kind of middle of the road in my opinion, but where he goes with the SecondGen White-Blue situation that he set up is something I am eager to find out. Overall I thought James Swallow's addition of a non-humanoid AI to the Titan crew was an awesome choice.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

it was clearly meant to say "Borg assault," but somebody had a textual hiccup. Given how many times the word "Gorn" was surely typed in the course of writing the manuscript, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mike's brain meant to type "Borg" but his hands typed "Gorn" out of force of habit

It looks like the quality control had briefly GORN ORFF.

 

[ATimson]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I recently found a howler in the Only Superhuman galley pages that I'd failed to notice in the seven years since I first wrote the scene: "Sarkar crossed your arms." That’s right, she reached out of the book and crossed the reader’s arms.

Hey, second person is a perfectly legitimate narrative POV, even outside of choose-your-own-adventure books - see Charles Stross's Halting State and its sequel. Though it more or less requires present tense, I think.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

^Even in a second-person narrative, a sentence saying that one person crossed a different person's arms wouldn't make much sense.

 

[DarKush]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

It seems to me the Typhon Pact novels are become the equivalent of the Yuuhzan Vong invasion novels from Star Wars.

And that isn't a compliment. The Vong invasion novels seemed to last forever with a recurring theme of the "heroes" in each novel managing to win a slight tactical victory but nevertheless things getting steadily worse.

That seems alot like the the Typhon Pact novels as well.

I disagree. I'm probably about to repeat what others have already said (I haven't read the other responses), but in any event....

I haven't done a count yet but I don't think the Typhon Pact books are anywhere near the number of the 19 Yuuzhan Vong books (not to mention the Dark Horse comic series, Invasion, which also takes place during the war). And not every New Jedi Order book ended with a New Republic/Jedi victory. Plus some major character deaths happened during the Vong books and that hasn't happened yet with the Pact books.

If anything I think the Destiny books, and the other Borg books leading up to Destiny, could be more easily compared to the Yuuzhan Vong, not in terms of series length but in terms of impact, than the Pact books.

Finally, I liked the New Jedi Order. I thought the Vong were different and refreshing adversaries and the series had an epic scope to it. The NJO was much better than the three series (Dark Nest, Legacy of the Force, and Fate of the Jedi) that have followed it. To be honest I don't think the Pact books overall have been as good as the NJO yet, even though I like the idea of the Typhon Pact.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

(I recently found a howler in the Only Superhuman galley pages that I'd failed to notice in the seven years since I first wrote the scene: "Sarkar crossed your arms." That’s right, she reached out of the book and crossed the reader’s arms.)

Indeed. Typos happen. Don't get me started about the "eight-meter-long" tiger in one of my Trek books. It was supposed to be eight feet long, but somehow it got (badly) converted to metric, making for one very big pussycat!

And I accidentally gave Chekov the wrong color shirt on one page of one book. (And, yes, I got letters pointing this out!)

(And then there was the time Batman said "Hang out!" instead of "Hang on!" Which made him a good deal groovier than I intended!)

 

[Christopher]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I haven't done a count yet but I don't think the Typhon Pact books are anywhere near the number of the 19 Yuuzhan Vong books (not to mention the Dark Horse comic series, Invasion, which also takes place during the war).

The Pact debuted in A Singular Destiny, and to date there have been four novels and one e-novella under the Typhon Pact banner, plus three upcoming novels, a duology starting next month and a single novel later. The Pact played a minor role in DTI: Watching the Clock, and reportedly will have some involvement in Cold Equations Book 1: The Persistence of Memory, though that trilogy as a whole is not focused on the Pact overall.

 

[ToddCam]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Blejhbgfdjnvggnfjh

The andorian birth problem story thread is the worst thing in modern treklit.

I agree. It was mildly interesting at first, but it really should have been wrapped up in "Paradigm." Dragging it out really seemed like a rehash. If the goal was to have a UFP world secede, it should have been done with some other world or at least not bring that tired idea back.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I agree. It was mildly interesting at first

For you.

For some of us, this type of storyline - with whole novels set on Andor - is a luxury we barely dared to dream about a few decades ago.

but it really should have been wrapped up in "Paradigm."

How do you "wrap up" the potential extinction of a sentient species in one book?

If the goal was to have a UFP world secede, it should have been done with some other world or at least not bring that tired idea back.

"Tired" for *you*.

If I have to put up with stories featuring wars, Bajoran religion and all manner of starship tech, you guys can put up with the odd Andorian instalment.

 

[JD]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

^ I'm with Thelin on this one, I loved the Andorians and the reproduction crisis. Andorians are one of my races, so I'm up for any story featuring them in a major role.

 

[j3067]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

^The Riker-Troi reproductive crisis was the only one that went on too long for me. I think it was only over four books, but I was definitely ready for it to be over.

 

[Skywalker]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I'm a fan of the Andorians' reproductive crisis, too. It gives them some nice depth that a lot of other species lack.

 

[Julio Angel Ortiz]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

^The Riker-Troi reproductive crisis was the only one that went on too long for me. I think it was only over four books, but I was definitely ready for it to be over.

Yeah, Sword of Damocles and the Destiny trilogy. Although one of the best scenes in the trilogy (IMHO) was Troi's counseling session early on regarding her turmoil over her current pregnancy.

I didn't get the impression it dragged on, but as always, YMMV.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

^ I'm with Thelin on this one

Thelin is my half-Aenar half-brother who died, aged seven. One day I should do the ol' slingshot round the sun trick and fix that. I get this feeling he was destined to serve beside legends.

 

[JD]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

^ I'm with Thelin on this one

Thelin is my half-Aenar half-brother who died, aged seven. One day I should do the ol' slingshot round the sun trick and fix that. I get this feeling he was destined to serve beside legends.

Oops, sorry meant Therin.

 

[Stoek]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

After much consideration I have decided that the Destiny trilogy is really a better analog to the Yuzhan Vong invasion and that the Typhon Pact storyline is more akin to the Fate of the Jedi storyline that is currently ongoing. Personally I have enjoyed what I had read of the FOTJ storyline, and I certainly am enjoying the hell out of the TPact storyline. I want the ideals of the Federation to triumph. But I don't want it to be a cheap or easy victory. I want it to mean something and for it to mean something the risk and potential loss has to be great. In addition to that one of the things I love best about science fiction (after time travel and alternate realities) is good old fashioned world building. Creating compelling alien races and helping us understand why they are the way they are. For some time there has been a tendency to invoke Spock's World when a novel has been about an alien race and frankly I've usually found that comparison in most cases to be if not completely inaccurate at least partially. But not so the recent Typhon Pact novels. The insights we've been given into the Breen, the Gorn, the Romulans, the Andorians, and to a lesser extent the Tzekenthi has been nothing short of astounding. The Breen have gone from one dimensional walk ons to a race (and I'm using the term generically here since I know that technically they aren't really a race the way the Klingons or Terrans are) that I am eager to get to know more about. The Gorn have gone from simplistic thugs that I was at best indifferent to, to a group of interestingly diverse individuals about whom I actually was able to invest emotionally in their success or failure. Frankly every time I think that the Trek novels have hit a plateau in quality and originality I am proven wrong, and am always glad to be so proven.

 

[ToddCam]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I agree. It was mildly interesting at first

For you.

For some of us, this type of storyline - with whole novels set on Andor - is a luxury we barely dared to dream about a few decades ago.

but it really should have been wrapped up in "Paradigm."

How do you "wrap up" the potential extinction of a sentient species in one book?

If the goal was to have a UFP world secede, it should have been done with some other world or at least not bring that tired idea back.

"Tired" for *you*.

If I have to put up with stories featuring wars, Bajoran religion and all manner of starship tech, you guys can put up with the odd Andorian instalment.

Therin, I am sorry that you think that everyone should couch their responses with "I think" and "in my opinion" but I feel no such requirement. If somebody thinks that I am stating a fact, they obviously can't distinguish between the two, and I'm sorry for that, but I am not going to change the way I write for them.

So yes, it's all FOR ME, but I am not ashamed to have strong opinions, so I don't feel the need to use your safety words, but I will here.

I love Andorians. I loved the idea of the four sex paradigm. I was very happy to have an Andorian main character in Shar and later Shran. But when you solve the problem in one story and then decide that the next story should have the same problem by saying that the first solution just failed later, it's lazy, and boring, I THINK. I already read how Andor was having a reproductive crisis. Give us something else. So yes, it was tired IN MY OPINION. Done. There was nothing interesting to add to it, I FOUND. I WOULD HAVE PREFERRED that either a different crisis caused Andor to secede (or the culmination of troubles) or have a different planet secede (like Tellar, which has such little world-building that we haven't seen a female Tellarite as far as I can recall).

Wrapping up the potential extinction, you make a good point, AS I SEE IT, but I FELT it wasn't organic to give it a backslide so that the issue goes back to square one and resets everything for the worse.

So, this was ALL MY OPINION!!!! MINE, and not FACTUAL.