Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Trek

[Mike Winters]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

^The Riker-Troi reproductive crisis was the only one that went on too long for me. I think it was only over four books, but I was definitely ready for it to be over.

Keep in mind that three of those 4 books took place over the span of a few weeks...

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Therin, I am sorry that you think that everyone should couch their responses with "I think" and "in my opinion" but I feel no such requirement.

Such irony. I get carpeted regularly for not saying that my posts are my opinions. I ended up putting it in my sig a few years ago, as you can see.

Of course you can have opinions different to mine. We all can. But your post about the Andorians' population problems arc seemed very dismissive of those of us who'd wanted an Andorian-centric plot for decades. When I read it, I felt a need to counter your response.

But when you solve the problem in one story and then decide that the next story should have the same problem by saying that the first solution just failed later, it's lazy, and boring, I THINK.

And it seemed, IIRC, that the first solution was also panned by others who found that one to be unbelievable: ie. that the solution to such a difficult problem could be resolved so easily. Swings, roundabouts.

Someone: bring in a female Tellarite and put the OP out of his misery!

Actually, we may have seen lots of female Tellarites. I hear they have shaggier beards than the males.

 

[zarkon]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

But your post about the Andorians' population problems arc seemed very dismissive of those of us who'd wanted an Andorian-centric plot for decades.

I wasn't aware we had to couch things in terms of how other people may see them before we give our opinions on story arcs

 

[Sci]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Actually, we may have seen lots of female Tellarites. I hear they have shaggier beards than the males.

When ENT was on the air, I occasionally mused to myself that, if I were in charge, I'd introduce female Tellarites -- and have them played by very loud men with deep voices and masculine-looking builds, and have the makeup be identical and just as full of beards. And I'd have the Humans just be incapable of telling male and female Tellarites apart. Just for the sake of undermining traditional ideas of gender roles.

 

[ToddCam]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Of course you can have opinions different to mine. We all can. But your post about the Andorians' population problems arc seemed very dismissive of those of us who'd wanted an Andorian-centric plot for decades. When I read it, I felt a need to counter your response.

I have no problem with you countering. It's the specific "to you" that irritated me. And I am genuinely sorry if I came off as dismissing Andorians or the need for stories related to Andorians. That was not at all what I had intended.

And it seemed, IIRC, that the first solution was also panned by others who found that one to be unbelievable: ie. that the solution to such a difficult problem could be resolved so easily. Swings, roundabouts.

Someone: bring in a female Tellarite and put the OP out of his misery!

Actually, we may have seen lots of female Tellarites. I hear they have shaggier beards than the males.

There is a trend to group a set of fans as monolithic, as I am sure you are aware. To those who thought it was too pat and simple, I disagree. The idea was never going to have anything other than a magical/technobabble solution anyway.

I wasn't saying I didn't want to read about Andor. It just felt like a re-tread.

As for Tellarites, I actually assume the few times we saw some, any of them could be female, if not specifically referenced as a male. The problem as I see it is that in TrekLit, for some reason all Tellarites are male. I guess this is male privilege. When I read, I always hope that there's a "she" here. But nope. Always a male. When I brought this up before, years ago, someone here said (paraphrase), "Who would want to look at a female Tellarite?" as if Star Trek novels were meant to be titillating to heterosexual male readers, and anything diverging from that was anathema. I know they were joking, but still...

When ENT was on the air, I occasionally mused to myself that, if I were in charge, I'd introduce female Tellarites -- and have them played by very loud men with deep voices and masculine-looking builds, and have the makeup be identical and just as full of beards. And I'd have the Humans just be incapable of telling male and female Tellarites apart. Just for the sake of undermining traditional ideas of gender roles.

I love that idea!

 

[Christopher]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

There have been Tellarite females in the prose, for instance in Prime Directive. (And if Corps of Engineers hadn't been cancelled, I would've done a story that featured a romance between Tev and a female Tellarite.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

In that one weird TOS novel where some of the crew go through doorways and become crabs, there was a female Tellarite.

 

[Sjaddix]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Typhoon Pact in my book is much more like the current Empire vs Republic rivalry that we now have in Star Wars. In my book the Vong are a lot closer to the Dominion Threat or to a lesser extent the Borg. A new power comes out of nowhere and pushes the existing powers to the brink inflicting heavy damage. But they rally and come back for the win.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I wasn't aware we had to couch things in terms of how other people may see them before we give our opinions on story arcs

Neither was I.

In that one weird TOS novel where some of the crew go through doorways and become crabs, there was a female Tellarite.

"Windows on a Lost World":
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Windows_on_a_Lost_World

Typhoon Pact

Cancelled due to bad weather.

 

[sfroth]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

As for Tellarites, I actually assume the few times we saw some, any of them could be female, if not specifically referenced as a male. The problem as I see it is that in TrekLit, for some reason all Tellarites are male.

Allyn Gibson's Ring Around the Sky was set on a Tellarite colony, and I believe it included at least one female. I don't have it in a format I can check, unfortunately.

 

[Sjaddix]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I wasn't aware we had to couch things in terms of how other people may see them before we give our opinions on story arcs

Neither was I.

In that one weird TOS novel where some of the crew go through doorways and become crabs, there was a female Tellarite.

"Windows on a Lost World":
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Windows_on_a_Lost_World

Typhoon Pact

Cancelled due to bad weather.

Darn Auto Correct.

 

[Sci]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

When ENT was on the air, I occasionally mused to myself that, if I were in charge, I'd introduce female Tellarites -- and have them played by very loud men with deep voices and masculine-looking builds, and have the makeup be identical and just as full of beards. And I'd have the Humans just be incapable of telling male and female Tellarites apart. Just for the sake of undermining traditional ideas of gender roles.

I love that idea!

Thanks.

It was also my notion that when Humans couldn't tell the difference between Tellarite males and females, then the Tellarites would get really hurt and offended. The Tellarite males would get really hurt and offended. Because after all, those Humans are saying we're not more beautiful than women! So I was playing with the idea that Tellarite society would not only completely bend Human ideas of gender roles in terms of appearance, but also in terms of their assumptions -- i.e., instead of our assumption that women's appearances are more important than men's appearances, that the Tellarite males would be the ones who are defined by their looks in society.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

^ But as we have also seen, Tellarites *like* being hurt and offended - it's considered civilized conversation, in their society, to be as rude and insulting as possible.

 

[Mr. Domino]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

^ Also, that smacks of Angel One, which I'd just as soon forget about.

 

[Sci]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

^ But as we have also seen, Tellarites *like* being hurt and offended - it's considered civilized conversation, in their society, to be as rude and insulting as possible.

I thought it was that they liked arguing and trading false insults, not that they reacted to all insults positively or enjoyed being hurt.

^ Also, that smacks of Angel One, which I'd just as soon forget about.

I really don't see a substantive reminder of "Angel One" there and I'm not sure why you do.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

^ But as we have also seen, Tellarites *like* being hurt and offended - it's considered civilized conversation, in their society, to be as rude and insulting as possible.

I thought it was that they liked arguing and trading false insults, not that they reacted to all insults positively or enjoyed being hurt.

Well of course a Tellarite wouldn't react to insults "positively". That's the whole point. You insult them, they insult you back, and that is considered quite normal in Tellarite society.

To truly hurt a Tellarite you would have to speak politely to him or her.