Harry Kim's promotion... or lack of it.
- Thread starter Kobayshi Maru
- Start date
Seven, many times, made Harry feel like he wasn't needed. "You should leave!" She told him that several times.
More than half the crew should have been enlisted.
As department head his permanent staff would have been enlisted or Ensigns with less seniority, but sometimes when Kim needs to take care of business Lieutenants do briefly fall under his purview.
Leave it to the writers of Voyager to put Lts at the service of an ensign.
DS9 had O'Brien bossing around Commanders. I said what I said about Kim because of how much O'Brien gets away with while being the Chief of Operations.
O'Brien (in DS9) and Kim have the same job.
O'Brien (in DS9) and Kim have the same job.
Except O'Brien is a wiz at fixing things and Kim is more of an expert at messing things up. Remember what Seven said to him " Do that compiling thing or you should leave, now!" Seven tends to be impatient with failure. Plus she treated him like dirt when he was under her command, in that episode where she created her own collective, I think it was the Omega Directive. Seven seems to think of kim as her personal entrance mat.
Whilst the title might be similar it wasn't exactly the same job. In DSN O'Brien's duties onboard DSN seemed to include Chief Engineer as well, not to mention he also served as Chief Engineer of the Defiant.
Smiley O'Brien was always a jack of all trades, no matter what universe version he was.
I am sure he'd prefer the term renaissance man but yeah you're right.
As Keevan the Vorta said: "Someone with the ability to turn rocks into replicators." High praise from a member of the Dominion!
But Harry didn't have a staff. His 'department' was his console connected to the ship's sensors. If there's a problem with those sensors, it's Belanna's territory, if there's an intruder near a sensor, it's Tuvok's problem and book-smart Harry is a nobody next to Seven when it comes to upgrading the ship. Harry's rank was fine with his position.
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I would argue that he outranked the felon who piloted the ship only because the helmsman died...until Janeway promoted him to LTJG then demoted him, and then repromoted him over Harry.
Harry did a lot of Night shift captaining, He struggled to get missions where he was the highest ranking officer which wasn't easy. and What did that get him? A big nothing!
Even if we're just talking about his bridge duties, the crew who manned his station while he was sleeping, while he was on away missions, in meetings with Janeway, while he was on the holodeck getting chumped by girls, during his off time... That's his staff, and considering how much time he didn't spend sitting at the operations station on the bridge, I suspect that it's at least 5 people.
Starbases do not have chief engineers? "Maintenance" is basically the same thing. Sure Starbases and other stations like DS9 probably have antimatter reactors MUCH larger than a Star ships because they don't have to worry about the economics of fight, but space stations also might have to leave their shields on for a month at full power if some fucky storm passes through their star system.
I am sorry but I can't tell from this if you are for promoting him or for throwing him in the brig.
At a supermarket, do you expect the manager to be in her office organizing the staff rosters, making sure the pay goes through and putting out fires, or do you think that they should be on the tills every second of their shift serving the public?
Department head means that you manage the department, which should be a huge job?
Harry if he did his job right, should never had haved to have actually served a duty shift at operations on the bridge.
Operations is also about allocating ships resources. Rationing and positioning. Making sure everyone has enough blankets and explaining why they have less food this week, that's also his job.
He was only ever on the bridge to suck up to Janeway.
Department head means that you manage the department, which should be a huge job?
Harry if he did his job right, should never had haved to have actually served a duty shift at operations on the bridge.
Operations is also about allocating ships resources. Rationing and positioning. Making sure everyone has enough blankets and explaining why they have less food this week, that's also his job.
He was only ever on the bridge to suck up to Janeway.
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I see. So, the brig then.
Sure a manager should manage, but that doesn't mean they don't actually have to do the job they are asking other pople to do. A manager in a supermarket should know how to man a till if need be, but they should only be manning a till to provide additional cover when needed. But I think the ananology you are using is not entierly accurate. A More accurate supermarket ananology would be
CO = Manager
XO = Deputy Manager
The Department Chiefs = Department Supervisors/managers
I suspect in many supermarkets the heads of the individual departments are expect to work on that dpeartment, whilst the Manager/Deputy are more expected to make sure things run smoothly, put out those fires or prevent them from even starting in the first place.
Now of course size does play a role on a ship the size of VOY there might only be 4 or 5 Operations officer including the Chief, whilst on a Galaxy Glass there might be 10 or 12. So the ammount of time you spend managing as opposed to doing might alter. The same goes for the supermarket ananology in a store with only 15 employees vs 500 employees.
I was wondering how much of the Operations staff died in the transit to the Delta Quadrant?
Kim would have been a #### not to take a "fair" portion of the necessary duty shifts each week in relation to his staff. He can't do all the work 24/7, there can't be no one in charge of Operations (NightShift, I saw, I remember.) and his staff can't do all the work while he screws off. An equilibrium had to be established.
Here's the problem if all or most of his staff (3 people?) died in the pilot.
Were the Maquis replacements really qualified to make up for the shortfall in manpower?
Were the Maquis replacements really trustworthy enough to be in charge of Operations (which includes replicator rationing, and book keeping on replicator rationing.)?
Harry/Operations could have been shortstaffed the entire time because Harry Kim is an elitist bigot, and that is why it seemed like he didn't have any staff, because he couldn't allow dullwitted sticky fingered minions to run Operations for him, while he was trying to make time with the wrong twin.
Kim would have been a #### not to take a "fair" portion of the necessary duty shifts each week in relation to his staff. He can't do all the work 24/7, there can't be no one in charge of Operations (NightShift, I saw, I remember.) and his staff can't do all the work while he screws off. An equilibrium had to be established.
Here's the problem if all or most of his staff (3 people?) died in the pilot.
Were the Maquis replacements really qualified to make up for the shortfall in manpower?
Were the Maquis replacements really trustworthy enough to be in charge of Operations (which includes replicator rationing, and book keeping on replicator rationing.)?
Harry/Operations could have been shortstaffed the entire time because Harry Kim is an elitist bigot, and that is why it seemed like he didn't have any staff, because he couldn't allow dullwitted sticky fingered minions to run Operations for him, while he was trying to make time with the wrong twin.
Its sad that even in the Trek universe where the rules of rank are often played pretty loosely, that Harry still can't get promoted. I'm pretty sure if the series had gone to an 8th season, Naomi Wildman would have been made Lieutenant before him.
