Harlan Ellison: Star Trek Was Just "A Cop Show"

[Commishsleer]

Star Trek's fan have long given it approbation for work it never actually did, supported by Roddenberry who frequently derided the quality of TV and his need to use Trek as a Trojan Horse get little morality plays on the air. But these notions don't stand up to scrutiny when you actually see a broader swath of 60's television than what survives in syndication today. Cicely Tyson was a non-maid black female character on East Side/West Side three years before Uhura. The Defenders tackled social issues head-on in a way Trek never had the mandate/guts to do for four years before the Enterprise hit the airwaves, I Spy Had a black co-lead a year before Trek and even did an episode on heroin addiction where the addict didn't kick the habit. Etc.

Star Trek did have some progressive things to say, but it was neither unique or especially daring in that regard.

There is no doubt that TOS didn't take on social issues on such as child abuse, drug addiction, abortion, poverty etc. GR gave it a different agenda such as war, prejudice, computers taking over the world. etc.
In regards to Uhura's role. Maybe she wasn't the first black woman in a non-stereotypical role, But she was one of the first taking a "man's job" that wasn't a secretary or a care giver or a nurse or an exotic spy. . On the Enterprise in TOS you had women performing all sorts of roles not just counsellors or nurses or teachers. OK most of them were secretaries but you had a navigator, scientist, ship's commander shoved in there on occasion.

I love Ellison's work and he's correct to the extent that Star Trek isn't really hard sci fi. Nether was Babylon 5. The closest things you are going to get to that (that I've watched) are Twilight Zone", maybe Night Stalker and X-Files too where they had a "monster" story and wound the regular characters around it to investigate it.

For Ellison to say it doesn't deserve its fanatical following. Who is he to say?

I don't think Kim Kardashian or her sisters deserve any sort of following but millions disagree with me.

If you like Star Trek because you think Data is funny, have a crush on 7of9 and not because of the stories or messages then are you "wrong" to like it?

 

[cooleddie74]

Nichelle Nichols always takes pride in the fact that Uhura was fourth in line to command the Enterprise which was a huge achievement for an American television series of the late 1960s. Only I Spy and later Julia gave non-stereotypical black characters such prominent roles, and maybe The Mod Squad if you view Linc as more than just a stereotype of a Black Power-era African-American male in an action-oriented role.

 

[Mudd]

Yes, Ellison made a number of good points.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Uhura was fourth in line to command the Enterprise

I'm not sure that this has been established anywhere. If it has been, I'd be interested to know where.

 

[cooleddie74]

Well, she said that's what she was. I guess if you break down the line of succession AFTER Kirk it would probably be:

1. Spock
2. Scotty
3. Sulu
4. Uhura

We did see the first three in temporary command of the ship when Kirk was absent so those three might be incontestible members of the chain of command. Uhura was the senior officer on the bridge after Kirk, Spock and Sulu if we base that on both her rank and how often we saw her on duty.

Maybe it's not official, but after Gary Mitchell was killed I can't think of anybody else who might qualify in seniority. Works for me until I hear differently.

 

[Maurice]

If anyone was 4th in command of the regulars it was Sulu. I think GR just told Nichols this 4th in command stuff the way he told lots of people stuff they wanted to hear.

Uhura's character basically does what Sgt. Kinchloe does on Hogan's Heroes...radio-operator, but he was effectively second in command. No one's denying she had a very early un-stereotyped role for a black woman, but the pop culture retelling of these stories tend to paint her role in simplistic terms and without the necessary qualifiers.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Nichols has said a lot of things! It doesn't seem to me like she was really that high up. In "Catspaw," Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, and Sulu were down on the planet, but Uhura was aboard ship, yet DeSalle was in command.

The reason I asked is because maybe it comes from the Writers Guide, The Making of Star Trek, or something like that, but if it's in either of those, I don't know where it is. [ed - What @Maurice said seems plausible, as well.]

AFAIK, the first time she was ever actually in command on-screen was in "The Lorelei Signal," and that was because she had assumed command, due to the fact that all the men had been space-siren-ed.

 

[cooleddie74]

Well, yeah, Sulu is fourth if you include Kirk. Maybe Gene was just blowing smoke up Nichelle's ass but even if it's accidental I think the chain of command works, especially since McCoy as chief medical officer wasn't asked or authorized to take over if necessary.

 

[Harvey]

Only I Spy and later Julia gave non-stereotypical black characters such prominent roles, and maybe The Mod Squad if you view Linc as more than just a stereotype of a Black Power-era African-American male in an action-oriented role.

What about shows like Mission: Impossible (1966-73), The Outcasts (1968-69), Room 222 (1969-74), The Bold Ones: The Protectors (1969-70), Daktari (1965-69), and Ironside (1967-75)?

 

[cooleddie74]

It's been a late night. Even my vaunted TV nerd knowledge has its limits when I've had a long day.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Nichols has said a lot of things!

Maybe she was appointed fourth in command by Martin Luther King.

 

[GNDN18]

Maybe she was appointed fourth in command by Martin Luther King.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I don't know the first thing about Harlan Ellison other than he wrote "The City On The Edge Of Forever"

You're missing out on a lot.

BTW, I think it's worth noting that, according to Ellison, Roddenberry pinched the famous "Wagon Train to the Stars" line from Sam Peebles. That's right, Roddenberry couldn't even come up with a pitch for his own show without taking credit for someone else's idea.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Guess it depends on how you define those things. Besides today's high culture was yesterdays pop.

In some ways yes, but things like Anna Karenina, or Rashomon, or Andrei Rublev have been consistently considered high culture. And I don't think you can compare things like Star Trek to those. But you can say, among art that is accessible and designed for entertainment, it's one of the smarter shows out there. And I think it's snobbish not to give shows like that credit for bringing certain perspectives on philosophy to people who would never be exposed otherwise.

 

[drt]

There is no doubt that TOS didn't take on social issues on such as child abuse, drug addiction, abortion, poverty etc. GR gave it a different agenda such as war, prejudice, computers taking over the world. etc.

"The Cloud Minders" covered aspects of poverty. If one considers the mines and Troglyte settlements as slums, then those that live there really arent given the same opportunities as the Stratos city-dwellers.

 

[Delta Vega]

You're missing out on a lot.

BTW, I think it's worth noting that, according to Ellison, Roddenberry pinched the famous "Wagon Train to the Stars" line from Sam Peebles. That's right, Roddenberry couldn't even come up with a pitch for his own show without taking credit for someone else's idea.

Interesting
I'm not a big reader and wouldn't have reason to come into contact with Ellison's work.
Seems there's a real modern backlash from Trek fans of all ages re Roddenberry these days, a lot of the stuff that's come out about his treatment of women etc, does not make good reading.
That other revelation about the "Wagon Train" analogy is an eye opener as well.

 

[Qonundrum]

Star Trek (TOS) was expensive and lavish?!

I love how the one guy has MockingSpock's beard and hairdo.

And he must have gone to the Brimley School of Acting: "Diabeetus". What next, he taught Chekov how to say "new-cue-lar"?

Yes, television is comparatively lightweight when placed next to a book, 5x7", that's over an inch thick? Thankfully not too many books have to describe lengthy car chases that are the norm for blockbuster movies!

Somebody hit Shatner with a pie at a convention? Must 've been a Klingon.

Great. Tribbles are just like pet rocks "now being sold". If the shirt lapels didn't give it away, or the hairdos, "pet rock" clinches it as being in the latter half of the 1970s...

And all that is just in the first three and a half minutes!

"Cop show in space" is a basic but not inaccurate term. Was he still upset that his Trek script was edited due to constraints in making a television show? There are only so many genres to begin with and genre crossover was happening then. Audiences still need something to relate to to make up for aspects they can't relate to. Make the characters interesting enough and it doesn't matter that if they replaced the fictional elements with a local PD and some police cars and whirring sirens it would be another bog standard show. Sci-fi technically adds a gimmick. Like how The Six Million Dollar Man is otherwise a glorified spy show, made half a decade after the 60s spy genre fizzled out, which revitalized the genre - to an extent, it too is largely a glorified cop show.

I've yet to sit through a TV show where morality tales are given reasoned nuance and depth for all parties involved, which becomes a multi-volume set nobody's going to want to sit through in of itself, assuming everybody knows the actual beginnings of the epic in question. Or even the main focus is at risk of being given disingenuous, oversimplified treatment of a situation - again, it's television. I'd love to see a TV show that actually goes into depth and not scapegoat one side or the other and let the viewer be more actively engaged. It will never happen. We get the story moral and we feel all warm and fuzzy for what it's worth - which any old daytime talk show can do just as well as, only without expensive sets and costumes that can't easily be used in other productions.

So, yeah, he's right. It's a cop show in space that predicted bluetooth, walkie talkies, tablet computing to a centralized host, certain types of naughty robots being sold in Japan thanks to stories like "I, Mudd" despite censored rewrites... The revelation caused sixteen stars to spontaneously supernova. If this were like a carnival ring toss game he's win a cupie doll fitted with microfilm that KAOS desperately wanted to obtain...

That and, without sci-fi, where would Apple have gotten some of its ideas from? You won't find that on Judy or Phil or Oprah or another Phil or Ricki or Sally or Jerry or Maury or Rosie or Geraldo or Ellen or Tempestt or Mark or Danny or any of the countless others...

 

[Commishsleer]

View attachment 7998

4th/5th/6th it doesn't matter to me.
At least there was a woman in the command structure.
Which we take for granted now but I didn't see much of it in the 70s .

 

[cooleddie74]

Star Trek (TOS) was expensive and lavish?!

For a one-hour television drama produced in the mid-to-late 1960s? Yeah. Kinda.

TOS still looked great for years afterwards which is more than I could say for most TV sci-fi produced during the same era. The weekly budget of that time was pretty big.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

For a one-hour television drama produced in the mid-to-late 1960s? Yeah. Kinda.

TOS still looked great for years afterwards which is more than I could say for most TV sci-fi produced during the same era. The weekly budget of that time was pretty big.

TOS was one of the most expensive shows on TV at the time. Not as expensive as maybe Mission: Impossible, which constantly needed new gadgets and went overbudget. (@Harvey has done some researcher on this.)

And I still think TOS looks spectacular, especially those episodes with the noir cinematography in bright splashes of purples, greens, and oranges.

I introduced a friend of mine to both TOS and TNG, and he felt TNG looked cheaper in comparison.