Grade "Judgment"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by T'Bonz, Apr 9, 2003.

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  1. 1001001

    1001001 Pull Up a Groove and Get Fabulous! Moderator

    Nov 3, 2001
    Danny Street
    I agree. I gave it a B- for these same reasons.

    Decent episode, nice to see all the sets from TUC again ;). The ending was far too neat and clean, IMHO.
  2. kevsthaman

    kevsthaman Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 24, 2001
    Had to give it the A! J G Hertzler is DA MAN! He plays a Klingon like few others. Truly a sense of honor in that man.

    Was it just me, or did the prosecutor (Asahf?) sound like Leskit from DS9? Different actors, I checked, but it was kinda interestin' ;)
  3. PatrickStar

    PatrickStar Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Feb 7, 2003
    So nice to see the tie in to ST V (is that the one?)
    I liked it. I also like that Archer's advocate is the guy who played Martok. I loved that character!
  4. I'm giving it a B- for a stupid ending.
  5. EarlFlynn

    EarlFlynn Commander Red Shirt

    Mar 22, 2001
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

    This episode's greatest strength is its exploration of the evolution of Klingon culture. I love the idea of a Klingon "great society," one more introspective and less violent. Had first contact between humans and Klingons occurred a hundred years earlier, history may have been very different. Just imagine if it had been enlightened Klingons who'd landed in _First Contact_ instead of Vulcans..!

    Hertzler was great, as always.

    I liked the ending; I felt no need to see yet another daring rescue. Bribing an official off-camera felt completely right to me, and sets up complications for future stories. The only reason I'm not giving this episode an A is because I think we needed an explanation for Archer's capture. Just a line of dialogue between Phlox and Archer might have done it, eg:

    "Are you still certain that handing yourself over was the best idea, Captain?"

    "It was either that or a declaration of war."

    It'll be interesting to see how the Klingons respond to blatant disregard for their justice system. By engineering Archer's escape, Earth, Starfleet, and even the Vulcans (thanks to T'Pol) have taken a huge diplomatic risk. :eek:

    I really hope we see follow-ups to the issues presented in this episode. If we don't, it'll lose almost all of its impact.
  6. Anji

    Anji Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jan 7, 2003
    Assisting in the birth of baby Horta on Janus VI
    I'm glad you all liked it. But I didn't. I thought there were plenty of missed opportunities here (as far as going into the history of the Klingons) and kind of a slap jack way of doing things (using the complete set from ST VI). Also didn't like the break in continuity about the Klingon foreheads (again, another missed opportunity, that could've made TREK HISTORY, as far as I'm concerned).

    I did like Reed making the rescue though. It actually gave him something to do. His smile when he saw Archer was priceless.

    The episode felt like a two-parter that was cut to bits.

    Overall C-. Sorry!
  7. Raz

    Raz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 13, 2001
    The problem is, IMO, that the followup is going to be completely the opposite. Duras will be after Archer for escaping, and the whole Klingon caste/honor thing will likely be forgotten, or worse, Duras will exaberate the problem further by being so "insulted" :(
  8. Mallory

    Mallory Moderator In Memoriam

    Jul 17, 2002
    Oregon, USA
    A- from me.

    It seems to definitely ramp up the friction between the Klingons and Archer (and by connection, Starfleet). And once again, they do a good job with internal continuity by referring to prior events. Score was good again and the effects, as usual, were outstanding.

    There were certainly some plot holes due to time contraints more than anything else, I think. This could have easily been expanded into a two-parter.

    Nonetheless, it was a good episode. I'll take it.
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

  10. 3 of 1

    3 of 1 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Dec 23, 2000
    with you

    Thoroughly enjoyable.

    I liked the ending -- the advocate choosing to stay and face punishment rather than make a break for it is a great example of real honor. Also made sense to me that the official could be bribed -- bribed with what, though?

    Also liked the Klingon perspective on humans -- they're a sneaky lot. Perhaps the deviousness of TOS Klingons comes from their contact with Enterprise humans.

    I did not like how the other characters were used. It's been said many time,s but this really is not an ensemble show. Mayweather could be replaced with anonymous helmsman of the week and nothing much would changed. I do realize this is very much like TOS, where Checkov and Sulu were never really much of a focus, I guess I just prefer the TNG or DS9 (espeicially DS9) ensmble play to TOS and Enterprise.

    Would the Klingons really perform such a trial? Would they allow Enterprise to orbit? Seemed to me the real klingon justice would have been to seize the ship, condemning all.

    I did very much like the intimations of mutating Klingon honor, that it is more warlike than ever before.
  11. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Mar 8, 2001
    Something I really like in a story is when the writer has a character say the thing or ask the question that's uppermost in your own mind watching a scene.

    For example, one of the earliest moments that I remember really feeling "hooked" on the original Star Trek was the scene in "Space Seed" in which Spock points out to Kirk the illogic of Earth trying to export criminals to other worlds by spacecraft. I wasn't bright enough to have thought of that myself, but I had read enough science fiction for the idea already to have been planted in my mind that the use of space travel for population reduction or penal colonies was a pretty silly and inefficient one. So, Spock said the right thing at the right moment for me to believe in the characters and story as "smart" (by my lights at the age of 12, anyway).

    The same thing happens in the last scene of "Judgment". Archer said what I wanted to say: Why would Kolos believe that he'd survive when the life-expectancy of the prisoners at Rura Penthe was so short?

    It seems obvious. But an awful lot of the time what's frustrating about Trek episodes is that those are the things that don't get asked, or said. Maybe writers sometimes think that they are too obvious or go without saying, but they're the natural response.

    And of course Kolos' answer was absolutely wonderful.
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You know Dennis, you can be quite adorable when you want to be.
  13. Wondel

    Wondel Captain Captain

    Oct 1, 2002
    Excellent, a solid 'A' from me. Not just one of the best Enterprise episodes, but one of the best Star Trek eps.
    The fact that we did not see how Archer was captured, or how Reed got to the planet is irrelevent to me. It would have been unnecesary exposition and added nothing to the episode, IMO.
    Congrats and thanks to David Goodman, you entertained me.
  14. James Dixon

    James Dixon Rear Admiral Newbie

    Jan 4, 2001
    Westwood, NJ, USA
    I'll give it a "C" and for obvious reasons already stated here... Though it's Amazing how much Praise this episode was given (probably because the supposed Writer hangs around here? I Wouldn't be surprised!)...

    I still stand behind it being a cheap ripoff of ST VI... Untlike ST VI, this one was putting me to sleep! I was waiting for the plot to actually Move On to Rura Penthe... And by the time it did...well...the ending was another Bad-written Joke!

    What's all this about "Klingon development" and all I've been reading here? Did we See the same episode? Did I fall asleep at a crucial time? Kolos gives a couple lines about "we're not all warrior" and this is "Klingon development" eh?!

    On the Treknical side (You KNEW this was coming!)... That doesn't look like a D-5 to me! And to add fuel to the fire: a D-5 battlecruiser of this era with Warp 6 capacity??!!!
    Huh? What? Huh? What? No, I'll let YOU GUYS do the math, factor in the years between E and TOS, and gripe about warp drive development (bad enough we had an episode the other season stating that Vulcan ships can do warp 6 or 7!!)...
    Maybe Earth should just tuck their head and hide in the sand... Maybe they DID tuck their head and hide in the sand, since Pike's Enterprise could only reach warp 7 a century later!
  15. Xenoclone

    Xenoclone Commodore Commodore

    Mar 28, 2003
    Portland, OR
    First, I couldn't care less what the writer thinks of my opinions. It's not like there is any gain by complimenting the show if I felt otherwise.

    To state that "not all Klingons are warriors" was an intelligent line you didn't see the full ramifications of. Think of this: they already have Warp 6 battle cruisers, their society is losing children to the warrior class instead of, oh I don't know, the engineering class. It basically implies that the Klingons are in a cultural rut. This ties beutifully into the Klingons already having an "Empire" and yet not advancing as quickly as humans over the next century.

    Technological evolution isn't linear. A HUGE number of factors go into how fast technology is developed, and in what field the development occurs. Sure, engine speeds for humans "only" evolve from a single warp ship to a fleet where warp 6/7 is the norm (which is a MASSIVE amount of evolution, mind you), and sheilds/torpedoes/etc have all been advanced as well. That sounds like advance to me.

    In fact, I think the Vulcans/Andorians/Klingons are so true to the original series that it makes the other series (TNG/DS9/VOY) look bad for not taking the time to really dig into the species as Enterprise has.

    So, if Mr. Goodman is reading, THANK YOU. It's about time we had a show true to original "Star Trek"!

    PS- ST6 is basically my favorite Star Trek to date, and I didn't see any "ripping off" of that movie in the slightest. Unless you count using Kligons and their culture in a Trek prequel as a "rip off." :rolleyes:
  16. kathleencamano

    kathleencamano Captain Captain

    Mar 4, 2002
    Brooklyn, New York
    LOVED IT....Archer is one stubborn captain.....LOVED IT.... :D
  17. Nephandus

    Nephandus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 17, 2002
    Draining Wilma Dearing's life force.
    Mods, someone has taken over Dennis's account. He's going to be pissed when he finds out. ;)
  18. The Poisoned Elf

    The Poisoned Elf Commander Red Shirt

    Mar 30, 2003
    Grr Arrgh
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    That's basically how I see Judgment, and that's how I describe it back in dogsowar's review thread (before the episode aired in the USA). I'd give the episode similar grades-- D+ for the story, A for Hertzler --for similar reasons.

    Judgment doesn't set its storytelling bar very high, so there's not much highly good nor highly bad to say about it. It's a rather "safe" episode, with some cookies tossed in for fans who are familiar with TOS Klingons.

    Quotable Star Trek
  20. tjkummer

    tjkummer Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jan 5, 2003
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    This could have been an "A" episode, but I gave it a "B" because of the ending.

    Spoiler alert, just in case. :)

    The ending was rushed, but I also thought it was a plausible way for the crew to get Archer off Rura Penthe. That is, it's perfectly acceptable to me that some Klingons would be open to being bribed. Also, guard duty at Rura Penthe has to be the Klingon equivalent of "s**t" duty, which means they wouldn't be the brightest blubs in the pack.

    Had the ending been implausible, my grade would have been lower, probably in the C or D range.
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