A solid A.
Great episode.
Great episode.
Grade "Judgment"
- Thread starter T'Bonz
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I think Judg(e)ment fully deserves an "A" . It was interesting, it used action sequences and great special effects but did not allow them to become the focus of the episode, and it left things open ended (which i felt was a plus, despite what most people here seem to think).
In fact, by leaving a lot of the questions unanswered it feels a lot like a cliffhanger. Yes, we know Archer gets away because of Reed, but we dont see how, and we are left to fill in the blank with our imaginations. Same thing with Archer's capture. Do we really have to know how it happened? The relevance of the story was the Klingon Empire's fall from grace. Archer and Co. were simply there as small pieces of a much larger puzzle, and as such we didnt really need to know what was happening to them all the time during this episode.
Judgment also ties in nicely to the other Star Trek series, as it shows that the Klingon society's definition of honor is changing, causing them to be more devious and more like the cunning Origional Series Klingons. The way I see it, it sets up a very large cross-series story arc involving the state of the Klingon Empire. In ENT, we have the Klingons becoming more ruthless, more concerned with winning than with honor. In TOS we have Klingons who are more devious and intelligent. In TNG some Klingons are interested in honor, and some in the aquisition of power. By the end of DS9 Martok is leading the Klingons back towards the earlier ideals of honor, and those who seek power have for the most part been destroyed.
There is an interesting possiblity here that Kolos could be an early ancestor of Martok, and that Kolos could in fact have set events in motion leading to the downfall of his house, which would probably be in a very low social position like the one that Martok was born into. Just an observation.
In fact, by leaving a lot of the questions unanswered it feels a lot like a cliffhanger. Yes, we know Archer gets away because of Reed, but we dont see how, and we are left to fill in the blank with our imaginations. Same thing with Archer's capture. Do we really have to know how it happened? The relevance of the story was the Klingon Empire's fall from grace. Archer and Co. were simply there as small pieces of a much larger puzzle, and as such we didnt really need to know what was happening to them all the time during this episode.
Judgment also ties in nicely to the other Star Trek series, as it shows that the Klingon society's definition of honor is changing, causing them to be more devious and more like the cunning Origional Series Klingons. The way I see it, it sets up a very large cross-series story arc involving the state of the Klingon Empire. In ENT, we have the Klingons becoming more ruthless, more concerned with winning than with honor. In TOS we have Klingons who are more devious and intelligent. In TNG some Klingons are interested in honor, and some in the aquisition of power. By the end of DS9 Martok is leading the Klingons back towards the earlier ideals of honor, and those who seek power have for the most part been destroyed.
There is an interesting possiblity here that Kolos could be an early ancestor of Martok, and that Kolos could in fact have set events in motion leading to the downfall of his house, which would probably be in a very low social position like the one that Martok was born into. Just an observation.
I give it a B+ I was pleasantly suprised. J.G. Hertzler was terrific. 
I liked the sense of history, the intriguing revelation that the Klingon Empire was not always so violently aggressive, and that the foundation for some very bad relations between humans and the Klingon empire has been laid by the crew of the NX-01 bribing an official to get Archer released.
Very good. Very good. Much more of what I've been hoping for.
I liked the sense of history, the intriguing revelation that the Klingon Empire was not always so violently aggressive, and that the foundation for some very bad relations between humans and the Klingon empire has been laid by the crew of the NX-01 bribing an official to get Archer released.Very good. Very good. Much more of what I've been hoping for.
Holy (obscene gerund) (expletive)! For once, this gusher actually agrees with you! My moderately high hopes for this one led me to give it a C+, though I suppose my opinion could change depending on how the other stories in the arc are handled.
A+!
Very, very nice.
An A.
No minus, no plus.
Just an A.
Nicely done.
More please!
An A.
No minus, no plus.
Just an A.
Nicely done.
More please!
I give it an A-. Very nice, Mr. Goodman... just a wee problem with the rushed ending (and I agree with a previous poster who said it was obvious that one of the "new arrivals" was one of Archer's crew... but sometimes you want those things to be obvious. And that's not your fault, anyway... it's James Conway's. ) J.G. Hertzler was brilliant as always, too.
Exactly. This episode laid some of the groundwork for the later description of Klingon-Human first contact as "disastrous" (since from a future perspective, the length of time from "Broken Bow" to "Judgment" and "Bounty" is minimal, and so this whole time period can be construed as first contact - or, at least, early contact).
Naval tradition dictates that ships are named after earlier ships. And since the Klingons are very House- (i.e. family-) based, naming people after ancestors (both illustrious and not so) also makes sense. We've had this argument here before.
Again, the law is a very tradition-heavy field. I believe that some jurisdictions have certain phrases that judges are compelled to use. Watch some legal dramas - you see it all the time on "The Practice". David E. Kelley probably has a macro in his word processor. (For example: the phrase "you will hang by the neck until dead" is redundant in a couple of ways - but it was a stock phrase for a long time, and was even used in TOS' "The Squire Of Gothos".)
Really? You're an expert on Klingon law and politics? You want realistic law as it's practiced here on Earth, go watch "The Practice" or "Law and Order" (well, as it's practiced in Massachusetts and California, anyway - or is L&O set in New York? I don't watch it). As long as they're consistent - and they have been - I don't care if the trial is held in the dark and the Klingon magistrate pronounces sentence in the nude while hopping on one leg on the back of a targ with an opera company performing in the balcony.
Does it really matter? Maybe Enterprise's hull plating depolarized and the Klingons beamed him out. (Does hull plating even prevent beaming in the first place?) Maybe he surrendered to protect the refugees. (If he had, and it had been shown, you would have been screaming even louder about the perception of a TUC ripoff.) It didn't matter to Archer's advocate, so we didn't hear about it. And if we had, there would have been no time for any kind of ending, much less the rushed one we got.
How can you say it was "probably unintended"? I'm sure it was quite deliberate. These Klingons are rougher, more piratical (is that a word?), more aggressive in expanding their Empire.
It may have been a relief for you, but I would have liked to have seen T'Pol dealing with having to bribe the Klingon officials, getting past the shield on Rura Penthe, and a more difficult time of it for Reed. Maybe not a full extra hour, but the episode could have used an extra 30 minutes.
Now, is it just me, or did Kolos' speech on the different classes of Klingon society possibly give us an explanation for the smooth-headed Klingons of TOS? (I always liked John M. Ford's novels... )
And that's not your fault, anyway... it's James Conway's. ) J.G. Hertzler was brilliant as always, too.Exactly. This episode laid some of the groundwork for the later description of Klingon-Human first contact as "disastrous" (since from a future perspective, the length of time from "Broken Bow" to "Judgment" and "Bounty" is minimal, and so this whole time period can be construed as first contact - or, at least, early contact).
Naval tradition dictates that ships are named after earlier ships. And since the Klingons are very House- (i.e. family-) based, naming people after ancestors (both illustrious and not so) also makes sense. We've had this argument here before.
Again, the law is a very tradition-heavy field. I believe that some jurisdictions have certain phrases that judges are compelled to use. Watch some legal dramas - you see it all the time on "The Practice". David E. Kelley probably has a macro in his word processor.
(For example: the phrase "you will hang by the neck until dead" is redundant in a couple of ways - but it was a stock phrase for a long time, and was even used in TOS' "The Squire Of Gothos".)Really? You're an expert on Klingon law and politics? You want realistic law as it's practiced here on Earth, go watch "The Practice" or "Law and Order" (well, as it's practiced in Massachusetts and California, anyway - or is L&O set in New York? I don't watch it). As long as they're consistent - and they have been - I don't care if the trial is held in the dark and the Klingon magistrate pronounces sentence in the nude while hopping on one leg on the back of a targ with an opera company performing in the balcony.
Does it really matter? Maybe Enterprise's hull plating depolarized and the Klingons beamed him out. (Does hull plating even prevent beaming in the first place?) Maybe he surrendered to protect the refugees. (If he had, and it had been shown, you would have been screaming even louder about the perception of a TUC ripoff.) It didn't matter to Archer's advocate, so we didn't hear about it. And if we had, there would have been no time for any kind of ending, much less the rushed one we got.
How can you say it was "probably unintended"? I'm sure it was quite deliberate. These Klingons are rougher, more piratical (is that a word?), more aggressive in expanding their Empire.
It may have been a relief for you, but I would have liked to have seen T'Pol dealing with having to bribe the Klingon officials, getting past the shield on Rura Penthe, and a more difficult time of it for Reed. Maybe not a full extra hour, but the episode could have used an extra 30 minutes.
Now, is it just me, or did Kolos' speech on the different classes of Klingon society possibly give us an explanation for the smooth-headed Klingons of TOS?
(I always liked John M. Ford's novels... )
G
Guest
Guest
I was not bored with this episode, giving it an A.
A.
Good acting, good sets, great FX, decent dialogue and script, gives this episodes a good grade.
Good acting, good sets, great FX, decent dialogue and script, gives this episodes a good grade.
Okay, you didn't like it, but at least give me credit for what you DID like. IT WAS INTENDED.
A-, I'm glad there wasn't a phase pistol fight at the end of the episode just old fashioned bribery. 
G
Guest
Guest
It surprises the hell out of me, but I'm giving it a solid 'A'. For once, I found nothing that eroded my suspension of disbelief in the characters actions or in the situations - a big complaint I've had about the writing in general. There was tension, there was genuine human interest (well, I say 'human', but I mean Kolos...), and there was a timely subject matter that counted for more than a gimmick to hang action sequences on.
The show was well-executed technically - loved a few of the beauty shots - and was well-acted not only by Hertzler but by the regular cast as well (even Archer comes off well here!). I've not often praised the character T'Pol, but I found her compelling in her one brief scene, nicely underplayed by Blalock (or would that be overplayed, comparatively speaking? 
)
Archer's capture is slightly nagging, but I was happy with the ending. As Ptrope points out, the episode was about Kolos' redemption. Time spent on details of Archer's escape hold the potential for some nice action, but do nothing to move foreward the story proper - indeed, I feel it would have detracted from the Kolos story. Given the time constraint, you trim away everything that doesn't advance the story. Perhaps a two-parter could have worked to flesh out the action, but only if the Klingon social material had been expanded with richer texture to justify two episodes.
As to retreading the trial element of TUC...TUC is my favorite of the films, but Judgement fulfilled an element I'd been left unhappy with the first time around: the character of the defense counsel. Worf in TUC seemed much like Kolos, idealistic but beaten. I'd wanted a little more of him in TUC, wanted to know what made him tick, but he was left unexplored.
In fact, the scene in which T'Pol and the bridge crew discuss Archer's fate was the make-or-break point for me: I was thinking "here we go, here's where the big rescue opration kicks in to rip off TUC". It didn't happen. The explanation given for Archer's rescue was credible and satisfactory, the script gives us what the story needs without extraneous detail. In fact, that Archer had his freedom bought for him nicely backs up the central concept of the story: the Klingon Empire is being corrupted from within - a satisfying touch that rings true to the story. I'd like to see more scripts this tight, although I do also want to see more indepth and textured examinations of story concepts and themes...in this case, that would require more time than one episode allows, and I trust the other Klingon stories will follow up on it.
If I keep watching the series, it will because of this episode. I was ready to give up.
The show was well-executed technically - loved a few of the beauty shots - and was well-acted not only by Hertzler but by the regular cast as well (even Archer comes off well here!). I've not often praised the character T'Pol, but I found her compelling in her one brief scene, nicely underplayed by Blalock (or would that be overplayed, comparatively speaking?
)Archer's capture is slightly nagging, but I was happy with the ending. As Ptrope points out, the episode was about Kolos' redemption. Time spent on details of Archer's escape hold the potential for some nice action, but do nothing to move foreward the story proper - indeed, I feel it would have detracted from the Kolos story. Given the time constraint, you trim away everything that doesn't advance the story. Perhaps a two-parter could have worked to flesh out the action, but only if the Klingon social material had been expanded with richer texture to justify two episodes.
As to retreading the trial element of TUC...TUC is my favorite of the films, but Judgement fulfilled an element I'd been left unhappy with the first time around: the character of the defense counsel. Worf in TUC seemed much like Kolos, idealistic but beaten. I'd wanted a little more of him in TUC, wanted to know what made him tick, but he was left unexplored.
In fact, the scene in which T'Pol and the bridge crew discuss Archer's fate was the make-or-break point for me: I was thinking "here we go, here's where the big rescue opration kicks in to rip off TUC". It didn't happen. The explanation given for Archer's rescue was credible and satisfactory, the script gives us what the story needs without extraneous detail. In fact, that Archer had his freedom bought for him nicely backs up the central concept of the story: the Klingon Empire is being corrupted from within - a satisfying touch that rings true to the story. I'd like to see more scripts this tight, although I do also want to see more indepth and textured examinations of story concepts and themes...in this case, that would require more time than one episode allows, and I trust the other Klingon stories will follow up on it.
If I keep watching the series, it will because of this episode. I was ready to give up.
I gave "Judg(e)ment" a solid A. It's easily one of my favorite episodes of the second season. I particularly appreciated the episode's insight into the decline of honor (or, perhaps more accurately, the perversion of honor) as the guiding principle of Klingon culture. In this sense, I felt that the episode took major steps toward explaining why the ENT Klingons are oftentimes quite a bit more reminiscent of TNG Klingons than TOS Klingons--and I'm not talking about makeup budgets. It seems that we're encountering them as honor is beginning to lose its credence among the warrior class, which flows quite nicely into their depiction in TOS. Then, with the TOS films (most notably The Undiscovered Country), we begin to see its resurgence that eventually culminates in the Klingons we meet in TNG. Nice work, I'd argue.
What didn't I like about the episode? Personally, I thought the sets looked a bit weak--particularly the interior of the battlecruiser and the Rura Penthe sets, although the tribunal hall didn't look so sharp either. Otherwise, though, I thought it was good stuff.
What didn't I like about the episode? Personally, I thought the sets looked a bit weak--particularly the interior of the battlecruiser and the Rura Penthe sets, although the tribunal hall didn't look so sharp either. Otherwise, though, I thought it was good stuff.
I watched this again and, having read some of the conversation here as well, am bumping it up to a B+.
I think my initial lack of interest was a) the direction, which I thought was pretty uninteresting in the early going, b) the fact that I'm not as fond of the bumpheads as a lot of Trek fans are, and c) the first couple of scenes between Archer and Kolos strike me as generic and lacking conviction -- particularly the one that ends up with "I'm an old man; too old to fight the system" or somesuch.
When they get back into court the whole thing improves a lot, and the scenes between Archer and Kolos on Rura Penthe put it over the top -- especially the exchange several have cited about "are all humans like this?" and the final scene in which Kolos chooses to stay behind. You can see that coming, but it works anyway and is quite affecting.
I think my initial lack of interest was a) the direction, which I thought was pretty uninteresting in the early going, b) the fact that I'm not as fond of the bumpheads as a lot of Trek fans are, and c) the first couple of scenes between Archer and Kolos strike me as generic and lacking conviction -- particularly the one that ends up with "I'm an old man; too old to fight the system" or somesuch.
When they get back into court the whole thing improves a lot, and the scenes between Archer and Kolos on Rura Penthe put it over the top -- especially the exchange several have cited about "are all humans like this?" and the final scene in which Kolos chooses to stay behind. You can see that coming, but it works anyway and is quite affecting.
G
Guest
Guest
B
Interesting but no explanation of how Archer was captured and the easy rescue keep it from an A.
Interesting but no explanation of how Archer was captured and the easy rescue keep it from an A.
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