Gorn

[fireproof78]

It really irritated me (and still does) when Enterprise disrupted continuity with their Ferengi and Borg episodes. And don't get me started on Discovery.

I can't explain it, but with Strange New Worlds, I don't really care that much. I know I'll probably have bricks thrown at me for blasphemy, but I don't think I would mind if they retconned the whole TOS series with the new actors, ships, etc. I'm just enjoying the ride.

I wouldn't mind because it doesn't impact enjoyment.

Ultimately, that's the key factor.

Well, we do have websites like Memory Alpha that does most of the leg work.

Though to the point, I think many folks wouldn’t have an issue with discrepancies if CBS weren’t so on about this fitting together.

True. I just can't stand the hostilely directed at writers. Seems rather incompatible with stated Trek beliefs by fans.

I think if CBS just let SNW ride and let the fandom make up their mind it would be easier.

 

[BillJ]

I just can't stand the hostilely directed at writers.

That kind of job is a double-edged sword. I'm fine with criticism, as long as it isn't personal or the "they raped my childhood" type.

 

[Artoo Atari]

That kind of job is a double-edged sword. I'm fine with criticism, as long as it isn't personal or the "they raped my childhood" type.

Exactly. If our lives sustain that much damage as a result of changes in a film or TV show script, some serious self reflection needs to occur.

 

[fireproof78]

That kind of job is a double-edged sword. I'm fine with criticism, as long as it isn't personal or the "they raped my childhood" type.

For sure on that one. It's why I'm not quick to assume laziness on the writers part.

 

[Pauln6]

Some of the Gorn stuff has been very sloppy. Their ecology feels like it was worked out on the back of a beer mat. That said, I think having a sinister boogeyman has worked really well.

It seems like a swing and a miss, though, after they did such a great job complementing TOS with Uhura, Chapel, Spock and Pike, giving the main characters canon-busting knowledge of the Gorn.

While they have implied, although not conclusively, that SNW has shifted into a parallel timeline due to Khan, I would hate for them to lean into that. I think some elements of Discovery, NuTrek, and Section 31 demonstrate how far some writers will deviate from the core values of Trek if you give them too much of a free hand.

Unless Trelayne comes along and wipes everyone's memories, I'm not sure how they can square the circle.

 

[Nerys Myk]

While they have implied, although not conclusively, that SNW has shifted into a parallel timeline due to Khan, I would hate for them to lean into that. I think some elements of Discovery, NuTrek, and Section 31 demonstrate how far some writers will deviate from the core values of Trek if you give them too much of a free hand.

No one has implied that. It’s wishful thinking on the part of some “fans.”

 

[Mage]

Unknown to Kirk... and everyone in the colony, as well as Spock and everyone else on the Enterprise. Seems to me with this series encountering the Gorn so many times, they'd be an enemy Starfleet would be quite aware of... unless something happened that convinced them the Gorn had been completely wiped out.

You're overthinking it. Just enjoy the show. Or not. Just.... don't overthink. There are actual important things in the world.

 

[Pauln6]

No one has implied that. It’s wishful thinking on the part of some “fans.”

They could have set Tomorrow, Tomorrow, and Tomorrow in the eighties but chose not to. While it's true that La'an could quite easily have been taken to the past of a parallel timeline and returned to her own, or she might have met Khan Jr, they also haven't confirmed any of these possibilities expressly.

So, while 'implied' might be the incorrect term, we still don't know how they intend to marry up the incongruous Gorn histories.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They could have set Tomorrow, Tomorrow, and Tomorrow in the eighties but chose not to. While it's true that La'an could quite easily have been taken to the past of a parallel timeline and returned to her own, or she might have met Khan Jr, they also haven't confirmed any if these possibilities expressly.

So, while 'implied' might be the incorrect term, we still don't know how they intend to marry up the incongruous Gorn histories.

The goal was to make Trekstory match up with history. Which is something Trek has done before. This time they made it part of the story and went timey wimey. Few people making Trek are as enamored with the alt-history angle as fans are. They want to do stories that acknowledge current and past events not some alt-history with a world war in the 1990s.

Shifting dates and events up the timeline have negligible impact on the stories. Khan’s story isn’t about the 1990s. It hinges on being a notorious individual from the past. Why we get hung up on the data points mystifies me.

They probably don’t intend marry up the inconsistencies. This is who the Gorn are now. Kirk being unfamiliar with the name is now a data point that has been binned. Losing that data point doesn’t change “Arena” in any significant way.

 

[Artoo Atari]

I just had an interesting and somewhat icky thought. I don't know if this has already been proposed, but I wonder if the more humanoid Gorn captain in Arena will somehow be tied to Batel's "hybridization" procedure.

 

[V'Lias]

I just had an interesting and somewhat icky thought. I don't know if this has already been proposed, but I wonder if the more humanoid Gorn captain in Arena will somehow be tied to Batel's "hybridization" procedure.

The thought did run through my mind when they were talking about it. Time will tell if they go that route.

 

[1001001]

For sure on that one. It's why I'm not quick to assume laziness on the writers part.

You don’t get to be a writer on a $10 million an episode show by being “lazy.”

It’s absurd on its face.

 

[Ovation]

You don’t get to be a writer on a $10 million an episode show by being “lazy.”

It’s absurd on its face.

Of course. 7 million…tops.

 

[Mudd]

While they have implied, although not conclusively, that SNW has shifted into a parallel timeline due to Khan,

Nope.

They've implied nothing of the sort.

The timeline has been changed.

One timeline, with a loop (or knot).

"Not possible! Illogical! Violation of causality!"

Yes, because that's what time travel is. It's a violation of causality.

 

[Mudd]

You don’t get to be a writer on a $10 million an episode show by being “lazy.”

It’s absurd on its face.

This.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is flat out wrong.

 

[Pauln6]

Nope.

They've implied nothing of the sort.

The timeline has been changed.

One timeline, with a loop (or knot).

"Not possible! Illogical! Violation of causality!"

Yes, because that's what time travel is. It's a violation of causality.

Trek time travel stories make me sad. They expressly acknowledge the existence of Many Worlds theory and then try to entirely separate it from how time travel works.

The fundamental problem Trek also has is that they have also expressly confirmed that time happens everywhen all at once, otherwise the Prophets couldn't experience it that way. So people from the future don't suddenly pop up in the past - if they are there, then they have always been there. This causes a lot of problems for story logic in 'time being overwritten' stories.

I understand why the writers do it. They don't want to risk the same reaction as the antagonist in Everything, Everywhere, All at Once. Many Worlds requires explanation and understanding of science outside the confines of the story. The concept of the Temporal police make no sense either.

 

[Mudd]

Can we use it to send you back?
- No. I told you,

I-I'm pretty sure there's
nothing for me to go back to.

My timeline doesn't exist

unless I can stop this attack.

If we fix your timeline,

we destroy mine.

My life, my friends,

my whole existence erased.

I'm sorry, but your timeline

- isn't supposed to exist.

Uh, truth is,

if we can only save one timeline, I'd...

I'd rather live in yours.

La'An Noonien-Singh. I'm Agent Ymalay

from the Department
of Temporal Investigations.

Am I meant to know what that is?

A division of the Federation

that investigates and repairs
damage to the timeline.

You haven't heard of us
because we don't exist yet.

Only one timeline exists resulting from the events of "Tomorrow, Tomorrow, and Tomorrow." There is nothing "parallel" here; other timelines cease to be.

 

[Okmyx]

I just had an interesting and somewhat icky thought. I don't know if this has already been proposed, but I wonder if the more humanoid Gorn captain in Arena will somehow be tied to Batel's "hybridization" procedure.

Agreed. I posted this thought in the episode thread. That the hybridized Batel will go on a suicide mission to the Gorn homeworld where they are all now hibernating, and infect them with her virus. Like the Klingons, the virus alters the Gorn, just much more drastically. They all become hybridized Gorn-Humans, slowing down, and losing their tails. Thus Kirk refers to a creature the Metrons call a Gorn, because he's not familiar with their new form after they come out of hibernation.

 

[Pauln6]

Only one timeline exists resulting from the events of "Tomorrow, Tomorrow, and Tomorrow." There is nothing "parallel" here; other timelines cease to be.

We will end caught in our own time loop if we get into the science vs story debate. Let's just say that Star Trek is in the timeline where nobody understands time travel. Or as Janeway put it, "Temporal mechanics give me a headache."

 

[MarcKle1964]

more humanoid Gorn captain in Arena

They don't talk about it