• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

News Georgiou Section 31 Series officially announced:

You sound bitter you're not getting exactly what you want. Trek fans have NEVER gotten exactly what they wanted. Every time a new series was announced fans have complained that they instead wanted this or that. In 1987 they whined it should have been a series about Kirk and Spock, in the mid 90s they wanted a Sulu/Excelsior series, in 2001 fans wanted a "Trek All-Star" series. After Nemesis they wanted a Riker/Titan series.

We don't get to decide, and we never will. That kind of "ugh they didn't do what I wanted and I am soooo bitter about it" is just childish and asinine.

Luckily for me I don’t give a shit about what you think.
Didn't I already send you two to separate corners?

A Warning for Flaming to each of you. Comments to PM.

Chill the heck out, dude!

You're completely overreacting to this, and it's making you look crazy.

That's some Orwellian bullshit if I ever heard one.

"Yes, we're now on Hitlers side. Get over it!"

Fuck this.
And now I've got my eye on you two.

@Rahul , you really could dial it back a bit. Try losing the ALL CAPS and the constant references to Cannibal Space Hitler.
 
It's exactly as bad as cannibalsm

That's a matter of opinion, and completely irrelevant to the point I was making, which is that referring to Georgeiou as being a cannibal is disingenuous because of the fact that she is a Human and not a Kelpian.

Also, apologies if my replies to Rahul crossed lines.
 
@Rahul , you really could dial it back a bit. Try losing the ALL CAPS and the constant references to Cannibal Space Hitler.

Understood. I'll dial the ALL CAPS and swearing down.

But honestly, I think "Cannibal Space Hitler" is a pretty objective description of this upcoming show's lead. In fact, real-life Adolf Hitler was actually way less successfull in his path of total war and genocide than what the show depicted MU Philippa Georgiou to have personally done. She might be the single biggest monster in all of Star Trek history - off the top of my head only the Borg queen or the Dominion might have a similar body count.

But both of these behaved way less nasty on a personal level, and weren't shown to enjoy torturing and eating people as much as she did. This is really disgusting on a level I never thought fathomable in any mainstream IP franchise - let alone Star Trek of all places!

I actually think this started out as an attempt to copy the depravity depicted in "Game of Thrones" (where it fit better with the general tone and darker themes of the world). But even GoT never tried to make King Joffrey or Ramsay Bolton the actual lead character for a spin-off show.
 
Last edited:
You sound bitter you're not getting exactly what you want. Trek fans have NEVER gotten exactly what they wanted. Every time a new series was announced fans have complained that they instead wanted this or that. In 1987 they whined it should have been a series about Kirk and Spock, in the mid 90s they wanted a Sulu/Excelsior series, in 2001 fans wanted a "Trek All-Star" series. After Nemesis they wanted a Riker/Titan series.

We don't get to decide, and we never will. That kind of "ugh they didn't do what I wanted and I am soooo bitter about it" is just childish and asinine.

Well this Trek fan is getting what he wants. A modern Trek show with promise - Discovery. More fucking Picard! Something completely different - Section 31. Look I hated Ds9 when I was 17 but loved it by 19. I even thought Data was a shitty Spock when I was 11 before making sure to tape or watch every episode of TNG. I hated Voyager for not being as good as DS9 and hated ENT because it was a fucking Prequel. But I watched them all and got some enjoyment out of them. Give it a chance or be a bitter asshole about it. This is as good as it has ever been.
 
I think I watched TOS first-run as a baby. Was a kid Trekkie in the 70s. Watched Berman Trek till ENT. JJ movies, meh, DSC meh. I'm over caring about something just cuz it has Trek in the name. This doesn't sound like my cup of tea, so pass.

Picard show, maybe.

YMmv and probably does.
 
And how do people respond to him? He has done a lot of reprehensible things all in the name of the good of the Bajoran people. Would a series based around him, with him as the lead, have as much push back as this one?

Almost certainly no. While the intent of the writers was to depict Dukat as a Nazi from day one, the performance of Marc Alaimo elevated the performance to the point the audience identified with him. Basically he played Dukat as the best sort of villain - one who believes himself to be a hero. And through sheer force of charisma, he was able to convince a large proportion of the audience (or at least the audience who posted on usenet at the time) that his point of view had some merit, which led the writers to engage in character assassination, destroying the most complicated antagonist in all of Trek history.

In contrast, while Michelle Yeoh is a great actress, she has not played Georgiou as if she believes she is heroic. If I get anything out of her role aside from hammy "evil for evil's sake" it's basically just that she did what she had to do in a dog-eat-dog Terran Empire to claw her way to the top. Unlike Dukat, this doesn't seem to come from any sort of complicated set of desires - to have power and yet also be recognized and loved while holding the whip. Someone had to end up on top, and she had will to power - hence it was her. And now that she's deposed, she's basically just out for having a good time.
 
But both of these behaved way less nasty on a personal level, and weren't shown to enjoy torturing and eating people as much as she did. This is really disgusting on a level I never thought fathomable in any mainstream IP franchise - let alone Star Trek of all places!
Rahul, I'm going to take step on the optimistic side for just a moment. I'm going to ask that the "Space Cannibal Hitler" emotional filter be removed for just a moment. I appreciate your passion but I'm going to attempt to offer a different point of view.

First of all, Star Trek has not portrayed humanity as perfect or even above genocide in the future, unfortunately. The darker aspects of human nature still very much reside, as illustrated by Archer's actions on "Dear Doctor," Kirk's orders in "A Taste of Armageddon," Picard's response to the clone civilization in "Up the Long Ladder". Not to mention Starfleet's attitude towards the Borg, the Klingons and the Founders.

Now, all that said, what Star Trek has done is present an optimistic portrayal of humanity, that they can put aside their darker impulsives and, as Kirk said, "choose to not kill today." Star Trek presents a society where that is possible for a human being to grow and to change and to become better.

Now, I might eat these words, but I prefer optimism as my main course so I'll take the risk. This show could be a demonstration of that evolution from someone who is "irredeemable" and transitions to someone more morally aware.And, in all honesty, how is this any different than Mirror Spock's path set up in "Mirror Mirror"?

Star Trek offers the optimistic idea that humanity can survive and move past this nature. Now they have an opportunity to utilize a "savage human" and possibly demonstrate that growth. Now, this is all optimistic spin on my part and for all I know this show will turn into little more than spy action show stuff. In which case, I'll stop watching and let it go on its way. But, if "Mirror Mirror" demonstrates the idea of one person changing can alter the course of an empire then I will hold on to a hopeful idea that a hopeful humanity can turn the heart of evil towards the positive side of humanity.

In contrast, while Michelle Yeoh is a great actress, she has not played Georgiou as if she believes she is heroic. If I get anything out of her role aside from hammy "evil for evil's sake" it's basically just that she did what she had to do in a dog-eat-dog Terran Empire to claw her way to the top. Unlike Dukat, this doesn't seem to come from any sort of complicated set of desires - to have power and yet also be recognized and loved while holding the whip. Someone had to end up on top, and she had will to power - hence it was her. And now that she's deposed, she's basically just out for having a good time.
Does that mean she must remain that way?
 
Does that mean she must remain that way?

Of course not. There aren't good Trek examples, but Game of Thrones has moved some characters from total shitheels, like Jaime Lannister and The Hound, into more complicated pragmatic hero type characters.

My point is, Dukat at his height had depths which were established already - depths which would have made him an interesting protagonist (though unworkable at the time the show was on the air). MU Georgiou has to date basically been a cartoon character.
 
Of course not. There aren't good Trek examples, but Game of Thrones has moved some characters from total shitheels, like Jaime Lannister and The Hound, into more complicated pragmatic hero type characters.

My point is, Dukat at his heights had depths which were established already - depths which would have made him an interesting protagonist (though unworkable at the time the show was on the air). MU Georgiou has to date basically been a cartoon character.
Operative words there-"to date."

I will, as always, remain optimistic.
 
I'll watch it of course. I like her as an actor. Plus if I can sit through the animated series I can sit through anything. Sure would be nice if they gave up on the prequel crap though. Looking forward to the Picard series assuming that happens.
 
That was a different scenario, because it was in doubt for awhile due to salary disputes with key cast members.

Patrick Stewart is all in. The only way it doesn't get made is if he dies.
No, there are many reasons the project could fall apart. From a salary dispute to creative differences to a sudden viewership crash to health issues or even a sex scandal. If there's one thing entertainment has taught me, it's not to get my hopes up about a project until filming commences.
 
No, there are many reasons the project could fall apart. From a salary dispute to creative differences to a sudden viewership crash to health issues or even a sex scandal. If there's one thing entertainment has taught me, it's not to get my hopes up about a project until filming commences.
Plus Discovery didn't do anything like as well as CBS hoped and there have been reshoots due to less than stellar internal screen tests, Discovery season 2 will need to do well and impress for the other shows to get a green light to move forward.

Also Netflix isn't writing blank cheques any more and the four short treks didn't sell for anything like what CBS hoped.

All we can do is wait and see if large numbers resub to all access for the second season.
 
Plus Discovery didn't do anything like as well as CBS hoped and there have been reshoots due to less than stellar internal screen tests, Discovery season 2 will need to do well and impress for the other shows to get a green light to move forward.

Also Netflix isn't writing blank cheques any more and the four short treks didn't sell for anything like what CBS hoped.

All we can do is wait and see if large numbers resub to all access for the second season.
Who told you any of this?

I'm so embarrassed for you.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top