This episode was rather bad. It had some beautiful and exciting moments in it (the bear attack, Danny's reaction to her dragon's death), but it was also so cliche ridden. All the red shirts died, and one unimportant character (where were everyone when the bear was mauling him? The hound has fire issues, but not the rest of them). And the distance plot holes were beyond absurd. Why couldn't they just have Danny wait for them at East-watch? And where the hell did Benjen come from. Using a character that appeared in four episodes as a deus ex machina is very poor writing.
Spoilers Game of Thrones - Season 7
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
That's what my colleagues and me also talked about. To me it seems the writers realized "Hey.. we have this character here that hasn't had a sendoff and we are approaching the end of the show. What do we do?"
This is the only reason they had Jon artificially be left behind so they could close the book on the Benjen "storyline" and i agree it was lazy writing, much the same other points (my pet peeve are the 3 huge metal chains they use to pull put the dragon from the lake.. where did these come from?).
The show did take liberties from the books and had to given the limited run time.. whenever an expansive book series gets adapated for the screen there are things that will end up on the cutting floor (Lord of the Rings Tom Bombadil for example) but the show seems to have become careless and careful viewers notice these things (even i start to notice and that's telling
).
I don't know how close Martin is involved anymore with the writing ( i know that in the early season there was at least one episode where he wrote the script for) or how much detail the producers got from Martin about the unreleased books but it seems that either reality and the pressures of producing such a complicated show with even less episodes as before or just plain shortcutting their way and improvising scenes to get the general story moving.
I don't know if it's my own prejudice but GoT got a lot more predictable and Hollywood heroic since they didn't have books to fall back on. No major character has died in a long time and they get themselves into big trouble but get rescued in true Hollywood style (Battle of the Bastards for example). No more Red Weddings, Khal's dying from infected wounds or Ned Stark style beheadings that put GoT on the map so to speak.
I am regularly watching reaction videos and nearly all are reacting or saying the same things nowadays.. when the Lannister convoy was attacked everybody expected Dany to appear and she did, when the guys were about to be overrun by Wights everyone called for and expected Dany to save them and she did. Everyone knew Jon would be resurrected (they practically telegraphed it when Melisandre arrived at Castle Black and the year in between it was the worst kept secret of the show).
Don't think i don't enjoy the show.. it is still in my top 3, depending on the episode the top show, for me and i enjoy when the good guys get a break and pull off a win, Lord knows they couldn't for a long time on the show but the compression and change to the show format does show a bit.
The final season of course may change all that.. in GoT there is no win without a cost to be paid either immediately or later so i fully expect several characters to die, even amongst the top cast so in the end it may even out and give us this bittersweet ending that's been teased for years.
This is the only reason they had Jon artificially be left behind so they could close the book on the Benjen "storyline" and i agree it was lazy writing, much the same other points (my pet peeve are the 3 huge metal chains they use to pull put the dragon from the lake.. where did these come from?).
The show did take liberties from the books and had to given the limited run time.. whenever an expansive book series gets adapated for the screen there are things that will end up on the cutting floor (Lord of the Rings Tom Bombadil for example) but the show seems to have become careless and careful viewers notice these things (even i start to notice and that's telling
).I don't know how close Martin is involved anymore with the writing ( i know that in the early season there was at least one episode where he wrote the script for) or how much detail the producers got from Martin about the unreleased books but it seems that either reality and the pressures of producing such a complicated show with even less episodes as before or just plain shortcutting their way and improvising scenes to get the general story moving.
I don't know if it's my own prejudice but GoT got a lot more predictable and Hollywood heroic since they didn't have books to fall back on. No major character has died in a long time and they get themselves into big trouble but get rescued in true Hollywood style (Battle of the Bastards for example). No more Red Weddings, Khal's dying from infected wounds or Ned Stark style beheadings that put GoT on the map so to speak.
I am regularly watching reaction videos and nearly all are reacting or saying the same things nowadays.. when the Lannister convoy was attacked everybody expected Dany to appear and she did, when the guys were about to be overrun by Wights everyone called for and expected Dany to save them and she did. Everyone knew Jon would be resurrected (they practically telegraphed it when Melisandre arrived at Castle Black and the year in between it was the worst kept secret of the show).
Don't think i don't enjoy the show.. it is still in my top 3, depending on the episode the top show, for me and i enjoy when the good guys get a break and pull off a win, Lord knows they couldn't for a long time on the show but the compression and change to the show format does show a bit.
The final season of course may change all that.. in GoT there is no win without a cost to be paid either immediately or later so i fully expect several characters to die, even amongst the top cast so in the end it may even out and give us this bittersweet ending that's been teased for years.
Chains came from the barges that were on the shorelines of the lake. Did not notice that myself either.
http://uproxx.com/tv/game-of-thrones-details-season-7-episode-6-beyond-the-wall/
Martin isn't involved with the writing anymore since season 4(he's "concentrating on the books"), but they've had numerous detailed discussions on where they're going, and he's available for notes and thoughts whenever needed.
Hm.. will have to rewatch but if it pans out then this point has been settled at least.
I figured as much but since Martin himself may not have all the details yet (especially from the final book which season 7 and 8 may be about) the writers do seem to improvise based on Martin's input and tweak it to fit the show.
God I hope he gets his shit together and finishes the next book soon. Last one came out in 2011, so...
I know the series will finish before the books now, and somewhat taint the book process (it's going to feel like he starts taking cues from them, or goes a different direction just to stand out, although the end point should be similar), but I'd like to at least see more of what he had in mind before the show does the clif's notes version of it...
I know the series will finish before the books now, and somewhat taint the book process (it's going to feel like he starts taking cues from them, or goes a different direction just to stand out, although the end point should be similar), but I'd like to at least see more of what he had in mind before the show does the clif's notes version of it...
I'm getting a bit fed up with the hyperbolic overreactions that certain parts of this current season's narrative keep generating. First it was all these "Dany's turning into her father" freak-out articles, and now it's people who work for sites like IGN and ScreenRant going on tirades about how Arya might 'snap' and kill Sansa (despite the clear indication at the end of their confrontation that she's not actually ever going to) and/or throwing it out there that the accelerated story pace has now become detrimental enough so as to ostracize fans of the series so much that they stop being fans.
Seriously, people: stop complaining about/nitpicking shit to death and just enjoy the show.
Speaking of the show, I love the way in which it confirmed that we're definitely headed for a full-on "Jonaerys" coupling, possibly as soon as next episode. Jon pledging his fealty to Dany was a great moment of vulnerability for both parties, and the fact that we as an audience know the secret about their shared bloodline made it all the better.
I'm surprised, albeit pleasantly so, that the show didn't kill off more members of the "Wight-nificent Seven", although only losing Thoros could be seen, were one so inclined, as too improbable given the stakes involved. I do think, though, that only losing Thoros was balanced out by the death and reanimation of Viserion, especially in light of Dany now having fully committed to helping Jon fight the Army of the Dead.
As I mentioned earlier, there have been suggestions put out there/complaints made about the Arya/Sansa conflict and the notion of Arya 'snapping' and killing Sansa, but the show was pretty clear in the resolution to their final scene together that, despite threatening to do so, killing Sansa is actually the furthest thing from Arya's mind, and while they still might not be 100% trusting of one another, neither one is going to tear their family apart any more than it already has been... something that Sansa demonstrated in selecting Brienne to be her envoy to King's Landing (rehecting Littlefinger's suggestion of using Brienne as a 'shield and sword' against Arya) and that Arya demonstrated in placing the Catspaw dagger hilt-first into Sansa's hand.
The one issue I had with the episode was the show's attempt to cast ambiguity onto an issue that really wasn't supposed to be ambiguous as presented (Dany dispatching the Tarlys) by way of Tyrion, as it unnecessarily undermines his and Dany's relationship, particularly at a point when they need to be completely in sync with one another and on the same page.
Seriously, people: stop complaining about/nitpicking shit to death and just enjoy the show.
Speaking of the show, I love the way in which it confirmed that we're definitely headed for a full-on "Jonaerys" coupling, possibly as soon as next episode. Jon pledging his fealty to Dany was a great moment of vulnerability for both parties, and the fact that we as an audience know the secret about their shared bloodline made it all the better.
I'm surprised, albeit pleasantly so, that the show didn't kill off more members of the "Wight-nificent Seven", although only losing Thoros could be seen, were one so inclined, as too improbable given the stakes involved. I do think, though, that only losing Thoros was balanced out by the death and reanimation of Viserion, especially in light of Dany now having fully committed to helping Jon fight the Army of the Dead.
As I mentioned earlier, there have been suggestions put out there/complaints made about the Arya/Sansa conflict and the notion of Arya 'snapping' and killing Sansa, but the show was pretty clear in the resolution to their final scene together that, despite threatening to do so, killing Sansa is actually the furthest thing from Arya's mind, and while they still might not be 100% trusting of one another, neither one is going to tear their family apart any more than it already has been... something that Sansa demonstrated in selecting Brienne to be her envoy to King's Landing (rehecting Littlefinger's suggestion of using Brienne as a 'shield and sword' against Arya) and that Arya demonstrated in placing the Catspaw dagger hilt-first into Sansa's hand.
The one issue I had with the episode was the show's attempt to cast ambiguity onto an issue that really wasn't supposed to be ambiguous as presented (Dany dispatching the Tarlys) by way of Tyrion, as it unnecessarily undermines his and Dany's relationship, particularly at a point when they need to be completely in sync with one another and on the same page.
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So HERE's an interesting thing that people have noticed about the most recent episode. Apparently, seconds before Jon emerged from the break in the ice where he went down, the direwolf pommel of Longclaw opened its freakin' eye facing the camera!
WTF is up with that?!?
This may tangentially explain how he was able to (magically) stay alive in freezing water, and after he rode away from Benjen. Seriously... I got nothing with this one...
WTF is up with that?!?
This may tangentially explain how he was able to (magically) stay alive in freezing water, and after he rode away from Benjen. Seriously... I got nothing with this one...
I don't think the show will affect the books that much, and who knows, maybe the end of the show might unburden GRRM from the pressure of finishing the story and he might actually finally do it.
As for what he had in mind before... well the original three-book outline had a love triangle between Arya, Jon and Tyrion, so sometimes it's for the better that plans change
Never came up in the books, either. Things may change when the next one is published, but until then...
Well, the book series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire". Seems to me it's referring to Daenerys and Jon?
they are half-siblings.
Was it blue?So HERE's an interesting thing that people have noticed about the most recent episode. Apparently, seconds before Jon emerged from the break in the ice where he went down, the direwolf pommel of Longclaw opened its freakin' eye facing the camera!
WTF is up with that?!?
This may tangentially explain how he was able to (magically) stay alive in freezing water, and after he rode away from Benjen. Seriously... I got nothing with this one...
Heh...I did check - no, the iris inside the eyeball seems to be the same dark color as the other shading in the pommel. No glowing blue eye. That would have been silly had they done that, honestly. This, however, is just really creepy.
Ah, good catch. Only Jorah's use was obvious. I just wish there had been some dialogue that referred to that fact instead of just assuming they were using them. I'll keep a closer eye on the weapons when I watch the episode again.
That actually makes a lot of sense thematically, even if Daenerys wasn't fireproof in the books (but she clearly is in the show).Maybe his having been dead and brought back to life endowed him with some special characteristics. Just as Dany is fireproof, maybe Jon is somewhat cold proof. He didn't seem as phased by the cold as the others. He was, after all, born in Winterfell and has lived a long stretch of his life in very harsh cold winters.
Bronn also should be up for archery.
Ah, I didn't catch that. Makes me think even more so that the Night King foresaw this event and brought the barge over in preparation.
That article also had some other interesting tidbits, particularly the arrow mountain and the pig behind Arya.
Whoa, I definitely missed that. I'll look for that when I watch the episode again.So HERE's an interesting thing that people have noticed about the most recent episode. Apparently, seconds before Jon emerged from the break in the ice where he went down, the direwolf pommel of Longclaw opened its freakin' eye facing the camera!
WTF is up with that?!?
This may tangentially explain how he was able to (magically) stay alive in freezing water, and after he rode away from Benjen. Seriously... I got nothing with this one...
About Jon being immune to cold
In a recent interview George RR Martin said this -
Could not this also apply to Jon but to a lesser degree? Would it explain why he was able to survive the cold?
In a recent interview George RR Martin said this -
Could not this also apply to Jon but to a lesser degree? Would it explain why he was able to survive the cold?
Highly possible, yes - the "fire" that Melissandre imbued within him on behalf of R'hllor may have kept him warm where his body would have otherwise failed, pre-resurrection. Jon, himself, may even be able to eventually figure out how to ignite a sword at some point. A flaming Valyrian Steel Longclaw with glowing red eyes? Now that would be something.
WTF is up with that?!?
It's just a reflection. The eyes are some kind of crystal.
There's only snow around in the first picture, so it reflects only white, the second one is when Jon plants his hand as he gets out out the water so it's darker, it's full dark in the shot later when he gets out, and also in the earlier scene when he shows the sword to Jorah.
Hmmm... Okay, fair enough. Going to have to go back and look at this more closely.
It would be funny if it turns out to be the accidental reflection of the camera guy who was filming the scene.
It would be funny if it turns out to be the accidental reflection of the camera guy who was filming the scene.
I'm sure right now someone on the internet is zooming in, CSI style
And all they'll be getting is pixels because CSI is garbage.I'm sure right now someone on the internet is zooming in, CSI style
That reminds me, Cersei has gotta be gone next week, right?
She'll obviously try something which will fail, so I wonder if she'll try to burn Dany with wildfire(she has a flair for poetic justice so she'd think burning the Dragon Queen would be appropriate) and be all "oops" when she figures out Dany's in-inflammable.
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