Future of Paramount includes Star Trek tentpole

[jaime]

..



I guess you disliked the first two so much you didn't even bother watching them.



Narrow minded? Chip on the shoulder... ain't the pot calling the kettle black.

Honestly, I still don't even get your point, especially when you say A but insist you are saying B.
You are comparing and making the dynamics, thus, mutually exclusive, but then you claim you aren't doing that and you get defensive and attack me for replying to your comments using the very context that you have established from the beginning.

Frankly, your argument loses credibility when you are over inflating a dynamic that was barely developed in beyond and that most likely begins and ends, in its real purpose, with the movie (and as I always saw Scotty as the most uninterested character about romance, that might surely play into my inability to perceive him having any potential in that kind of dynamic)
Comparing it to s/u the way you are doing is a big stretch, it's just too forced. Not a wonder why you seem to have, honestly, some difficulty trying to explain it.

It seems to me that you are just painting yourself into a corner here by trying to rationalize your biased perception of the narrative, and 'explain' this childish need to put the female characters (thus their dynamics) into a 'competition' and praise one only to find an excuse to criticize the other (and the previous movies, since you dislike them).

You have derailed your own point. You could have praised one thing without making a conveniently forced comparison with the only other dynamic that includes a woman. That, in context of a fandom that has a history of overinflating the male dynamics and perceiving the woman as a threat to the white dudes status quo, exposes your argument to criticism for all the reasons I already explained.

ps: it's Jaylah, btw.

I know. And Jayla keeps getting spellchecked and I don’t bother correcting it.
You are heavily mistaken, I have not criticised Uhura once. Quite the opposite.
And yes..Scotty and Jaylahs interactions are from one movie, but are more fun in that one movie that Spock and Uhura managed in three. (Which, despite not exactly being enamoured with them, I have indeed seen.)
Scott rarely gets the romance angle in TOS, but it happened a few times...including the romance with Uhura that they went for in V but very few liked, funnily enough. So yeah, it’s a potential direction, but can go all sorts of ways from Beyond. That’s not about reading into stuff, it’s about knowing how stories work.

Your obsession with suggesting that I am pitting the two of them in some kind of thunder dome setting is ridiculous. I want more women in the cast. I don’t know why there is no Chapel, no Rand. I don’t know why they didn’t keep Marcus around. That’s the part of your comments I find offensive. You are busy trying to paint me as a sexist (or with your comments about Jaylah being hidden under make-up, a rascist.) Which is both incorrect and offensive. Your comments come over as bigoted in themself ‘certain kinds of fan’ what certain kind hmm?
Please note I did not say ‘give me more Jaylah over Uhura’ I talked only about the friendship/romance pairings...it is in your mind only that this means no Uhura.
I can see you are what was once called a shipper for Spock Uhura, and that’s grand. I am right behind that. But not if it’s gonna be the same shit every movie. Which it has been. Spock is the character that needs fixing in that regard.

And your context of fandom business doesn’t come into it...except to point out again that you are busy setting your own prejudices in place. I am not a part of dude bro white fandom. I am me. And I am with Morgan Freeman on that one.

 

[Malaika]

I can see you are what was once called a shipper for Spock Uhura,

The funny thing is that you are the one here who is acting as the perfect shipper stereotype with your praising one dynamic you like by unnecessarily putting down another relationship that has nothing to do with it (again, only thing in common is the fact they have women in it, which makes your argument come across in a certain way especially when you have many other dynamics you could've compared to that and more fitting too).
Frankly, I don't see what's the difference between your argument, and that of the slash fangirls in this fandom who need to bash Uhura or the romance in order to 'prove' that their favorite dynamic is better and should be the romantic pair instead: in both cases, I find it is childish and nonsensical because people compare apples and oranges creating competitions (or 'shipper wars') when there are none.


Ps: Guilty conscience much, btw? You keep on defending yourself from accusations I didn't really make. Pointing up that some comments may come across as having problematic elements to them is different from calling someone sexist or racist.
And I generally think that arguments can and should speak for themselves, so at the very least I can simply explain why some comments may get perceived in a certain way. And it is never without a context that I also make a point to mention. I guess my comments would surely be more concise if I really did what you accuse me of doing, and I'd thus throw random insults at people, but that's not my style. If you still choose to only see what you want to see, get defensive and derail the point it's not my fault, I think.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

That whole Spock/Uhura subplot was so ill conceived from the start that I am glad that the filmmakers dropped it.

 

[BillJ]

That whole Spock/Uhura subplot was so ill conceived from the start that I am glad that the filmmakers dropped it.

Umm... it was central to the entire film.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Specifically their coupling. I didn't really find them a good match and thought it was just a wasted use of Saldana's Uhura. The low point being her bickering in STID during that shuttle trip to Kronos.

So awful.

 

[Malaika]

Sometimes it almost feels like jj&Co deliberately made certain choices to bait trek fans...
The over the top by default hatred some trek fans have for the romance for instance (including the super original concern trolling for Uhura, that unsuccessfully tries to hide obvious double standards and bias), will never cease to amuse me.
It surely seems to make some people a bit too insecure for a thing that, for them, is so unimportant.
I mean, even when it hardly gets screentime, it seems some of you are still so frustrated.

(Eta: the self-reassuring wishful thinking about beyond 'dropping' it also is funny.. It's like some of you stopped at their first scene and Mccoy's unreliable narrator tease, and completely blocked out the rest of the movie, the actual context of the break up itself and their last scene.
What I don't get is that some of you seem to prefer coming across as, basically, people who don't get basic narrative devices just for the sake of being biased against a subplot. So not worth it)

 

[Smellmet]

I know you probably THINK you believe she's an uninteresting character, but I'm sad to inform you that what's really going on is that you subconsciously hate women and want them to only ever be regulated to background characters! REEEEEEEEE!

Well I'm sad to inform you that you are incorrect. Subconsciously hate women? You don't know jack shit about me to make that kind of overreacting, patronising statement.

 

[Jedi_Master]

So... any thoughts on the future of Paramount/Star Trek feature films?

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Hell. Yeah, we can safely forget a fourth film at this point. If for no other reason, then because after a lineup like that, there won't be a Paramount left to produce or release it.

LOL! That’s so funny! And yet so true.

 

[Malaika]

Umm... it was central to the entire film.

For what is worth, and giving to Caesar what is Caesar's, even though I stand by my opinion that the new team mostly ignored the first movies, and sidelined the new dynamics in favor of nostalgia, I don't believe they ever intended to drop s/u. They surely never said that either.

In spoiler free interviews, Lin&Jung said they wanted to push it further as a relationship but also felt like, basically, Spock's conflict about what happened to his planet had to get acknowledged. Maybe they thought it was, his survivor guilt, an aspect that needed to get resolved before doing other things with his character? (though, honestly, it would make more sense as a sequel of the first movie and nkt 3 years later..)
Jung in particular stated that they didn't want to make it seems they break up or have issues because they are tired of each other or something like that but, rather, they thought that by making their initial break up be about Spock's conflict and her letting him free to decide in spite of loving each other, was a nice was to actually advance their relationship (which also is what the comic writer is doing too now). For them, it was also a way to show they have a mature relationship.

I think Lin&Pegg probably only wanted an excuse to give more screentime to the male characters and old bromances, and also a way to have the couple but keep their interactions 'safe' (e.g avoiding to give them kissing scenes and such). In the same way they have gay Sulu, but keep it very subtle.

In a way, it's a movie that tried to have the cake and eat it too by, on one hand, placating reboot haters and tos purists ( making them think they were getting what they wanted), but also trying to not alienate other fans, reboot fans and the modern audience too much.
In the end you have the illusion of making everyone happy by giving them all something, but for me it still was wasted potential and giving us an ending of the trilogy (and possibly the reboot) that doesn't feel complete or doing nearly half of the stuff they could've done with the characters. It feels a bit like a "pause"/spin off movie in between made by people who didn't really want the responsibility to make a sequel of the first two, and thus left it to the next writers to do the job.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Specifically their coupling. I didn't really find them a good match and thought it was just a wasted use of Saldana's Uhura. The low point being her bickering in STID during that shuttle trip to Kronos.

So awful.

Whereas I thought that scene was a hilarious kids-bickering-on-the-car-ride thing which got everyone's issues out in an amusing way.

 

[F. King Daniel]

LOL! That’s so funny! And yet so true.

M:I 6, Transformers and Cloverfield interest me.

Well, less so Transformers (I've yet to see the last one) but still... not all bad.

 

[BillJ]

So... any thoughts on the future of Paramount/Star Trek feature films?

There isn't one. At least not with this cast.

Whereas I thought that scene was a hilarious kids-bickering-on-the-car-ride thing which got everyone's issues out in an amusing way.

Being married for going on twenty-five years, I've found that most arguments happen at the most inopportune times.

 

[F. King Daniel]

2020. Star Trek 4. It can still happen.

 

[saddestmoon]

2020. Star Trek 4. It can still happen.

I’m in!

 

[PixelMagic]

Well I'm sad to inform you that you are incorrect. Subconsciously hate women? You don't know jack shit about me to make that kind of overreacting, patronising statement.

I guess you didn't understand that I was being 100% sarcastic and not serious.

 

[Smellmet]

I guess you didn't understand that I was being 100% sarcastic and not serious.

Ah. No I did not. Seeing stuff in type can do this to a person.

 

[Malaika]

2020. Star Trek 4. It can still happen.

Who directs it?

Whereas I thought that scene was a hilarious kids-bickering-on-the-car-ride thing which got everyone's issues out in an amusing way.

Being married for going on twenty-five years, I've found that most arguments happen at the most inopportune times.

#truth
It happened to me...times where I was the kirk of the situation, others where I was s/u..

I have a feeling that's precisely what JJ had intended. The scene was funny (before it became something deep and serious eg. his speech) because they all could relate..
A car, a house..a spaceship..past or future, some things are relatable.. people are still just people.

And not be that person, but I have a feeling that if Uhura had been a male character and not his girlfriend (eg. Mccoy's behavior with both Kirk and Spock) a lot of the people who have 'issues' with the scene would magically think it was just funny, or even justify the guy for calling Spock out on the fact that if he indeed had a death wish and was emotionally compromised, he could have put the mission in jeopardy. Not to mention praise the guy for challenging Spock to see things from a human perspective too (which pretty much is the excuse fans use to justify Mccoy's, at times, racism with him in the old thing)
In fact, Kirk was equally annoyed with him, and agreed with her, but it's glossed over just like it's ignored that he 'whined' and complained about Spock in the movie more than his girlfriend ever did (yet, SHE is labelled as the whiny one for 1 scene). The complains about Uhura are especially epic when they come from Mccoy's fans who, essentially, glorify him and his dynamics for the same stuff they criticize Uhura for.

Pointing up the double standard many fans have for the female characters is not having a (how it was?) 'patriarchy persecution complex' , it's just commenting the evidence of the fact that there are tons of scenes in these movies where the guys AREN'T professional, yet people give them a pass and only scrutinize Uhura's scenes, and often deliberately miss the point of those to make sexist descriptions of her character and motivations. That scene from stid isn't even the only example in this fandom.

 

[jaime]

The funny thing is that you are the one here who is acting as the perfect shipper stereotype with your praising one dynamic you like by unnecessarily putting down another relationship that has nothing to do with it (again, only thing in common is the fact they have women in it, which makes your argument come across in a certain way especially when you have many other dynamics you could've compared to that and more fitting too).
Frankly, I don't see what's the difference between your argument, and that of the slash fangirls in this fandom who need to bash Uhura or the romance in order to 'prove' that their favorite dynamic is better and should be the romantic pair instead: in both cases, I find it is childish and nonsensical because people compare apples and oranges creating competitions (or 'shipper wars') when there are none.


Ps: Guilty conscience much, btw? You keep on defending yourself from accusations I didn't really make. Pointing up that some comments may come across as having problematic elements to them is different from calling someone sexist or racist.
And I generally think that arguments can and should speak for themselves, so at the very least I can simply explain why some comments may get perceived in a certain way. And it is never without a context that I also make a point to mention. I guess my comments would surely be more concise if I really did what you accuse me of doing, and I'd thus throw random insults at people, but that's not my style. If you still choose to only see what you want to see, get defensive and derail the point it's not my fault, I think.

You dance on the head of a pin. You threw out the ‘certain kinds of fan’ thing in response to my comment, make various allusions (one of which you drop after I point out some reasons why it’s a mistake.) and then continue to throw crazy at me hoping it sticks, largely by seeing things that aren’t there (I am not anti-female, anti-Uhura, anti Spock and Uhura relationship....but according to you I have Jaylah and Uhura fighting to the death to be the only girl in the village of the Starfleet ubermensch or something...) and returning over and over to insulting interpretations that ignore what I have actually said.
It’s a shame the Spock Uhura relationship is handled so badly on screen *shrug* I even agree with you and others that the bickering scene in ID is both believable and entertaining...but it also has zero balancing it out in narrative terms. They are always on the edge, there’s no decent balancing element to show them as say a Beatrice and Benedick analogue, Or some Tsundere thing going on. It’s possible, should we get a fourth film, that they can finally boldly go that route...and that would be great. But if it’s more of the same? No thanks. By film three, they needed to be in a different place. They weren’t.

 

[Malaika]

.but according to you I have Jaylah and Uhura fighting to the death to be the only girl in the village of the Starfleet ubermensch or something...

Lol

Of course, I never said that. You are being facetious with these exaggerations to derail the point (and as you aren't the only one doing that, at least you are in good company here)

I replied to your comment ...

..give me an hour of Scotty and Jayla over Spock and Uhura any day.

I find the Uhura Spock stuff dull, and enjoyed the Scotty Jayla stuff, but am not putting them against each other...except to say one was a high point of the movie for me, the other was not.

Its a better relationship than the Spock Uhura one which is largely shown to be devoid of any happy points.

..where you are putting one dynamic against the other. That's what you are doing through the whole discussion. Yet, you insist trying to deny that you even made a comparision and you get all 'liar liar! Offense!!' on me for pointing up that you did compare the two.

Why your comparison is interesting? Because, again, since there is - literally - nothing in common between these two dynamics, it is odd you had to compare Jaylah's one to the only important relationship these movies have that includes a woman too - and thus put that one down to 'praise' the other. It comes across as you making the comparison only on the basis of both dynamics having female characters in them.
Coincidentally, as soon as I pointed that up (and hit that a nerve I guess) you got defensive and started to deny you were comparing the two.. and you try derailing the point with these silly claims about me apparently saying stuff I didn't even say.