Future of Paramount includes Star Trek tentpole

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by RAMA, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
    That's what I'm thinking too. Last news I heard, Paramount and Hasbro were looking to reboot G.I. Joe and form a new "Hasbro cinematic universe" that will include Transformers and several other Hasbro action figure properties. They've already done that with the comics based on them.
     
  2. gerbil

    gerbil Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2001
    Location:
    USA
    I’m just gonna throw out there that Discovery has to run its course before Paramount is going to dig into Star Trek again.
     
  3. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
    Paramount really doesn't have to wait until DIS runs its course to do another Trek movie. Had Beyond been a big hit, they would have green-lit a fourth installment already regardless of the current series.

    Paramount could be trying to decide what they want to do with Trek or they could be fast-tracking other movies they think will be a bigger hit. In either scenario, the performance of Beyond is probably the main reason Paramount is in no rush to do another Trek movie right now.

    Personally, I think the Kelvin Timeline is done and is now cooling in its grave.
     
  4. jaime

    jaime Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Location:
    London
    I had the opposite reaction tbh...I didn’t feel fussed if they followed up either of the first two, and dint feel they had put themselves in a new place at all...whereas beyond gave us a new ship, a different spin for Kirk and Spock, and introduced a new potential regular who was much much more interesting that some of the actual reboot regulars...give me an hour of Scotty and Jayla over Spock and Uhura any day. Pegg and co wrote a better script in whatever ten minutes they were given than the first two...and it had plenty of ties to those as well as the wider universe.
    Heck..even the costumes were just plain better.
    Thing is...knowing Pegg...he could do it again.
     
  5. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Hell. Yeah, we can safely forget a fourth film at this point. If for no other reason, then because after a lineup like that, there won't be a Paramount left to produce or release it.
     
  6. Time is the Fire

    Time is the Fire Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Not necessary, at all.
     
  7. Malaika

    Malaika Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    I don't remember there being any romantic subplot between Scotty and Jaylah too, let alone an interracial/interspecies relationship that is considered the second most important of this trek after kirk/spock.

    Interesting you feel the need to praise one dynamic by putting down the only one, among the many the movies have, that has absolutely nothing in common with it.
    I guess one could say 'give me an hour of Scotty and Jaylah over Spock and Bones any day', it would still be a bit bizarre, but surely less far fetched than comparing it to a non-platonic relationship that has a completely different purpose and relevance in the narrative.

    It seems, rather, your comparison relies sorely on the fact they both have a female character in them, and you are thus passive aggressively pitting them against each other following the old fandom cliché of "there can only be one" when it comes to female characters.
    Of course, when it comes to female characters they are mutually exclusive but, on the flip side, it's expected a modern and diverse audience must care about not one, not 2 but 6 male characters four of which getting most of the screentime.

    Honestly, after the stuff I read being said about Uhura/Zoe in these years, both in this board and other trek places, and how much some consider her a 'threat' to the white dudes status quo and original trio bromance, I'm not exactly surprised that certain fans prefer a safer, desexualized, female character covered in alien make up like Jaylah who stays away from the leads, and merely has a super safe and comforting 100% platonic relationship with a secondary dude (played by one of the writers who, basically, used the new character to give himself more screentime). Of course, this kind of female character is better than a female lead character that jj&Co had elevated to the original trio level and made important to one of the main guys.
    Tl dr: Female characters in trek are fine and allowed only if they don't interfere with the original trio. And there can only be one.

    Pegg&co went backwards with the few more bold and modern changes JJ did to characters that are 50 years old, and they made the most perfect, self serving, fanboy-safe and reboot haters-pandering trek movie of the trilogy and it is, rightfully so, less successful than the first two.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  8. jaime

    jaime Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Location:
    London
    Well...you certainly got a lot out of a small sentence. Sadly most was incorrect. I just enjoyed the Scott Jayla dynamic and scenes...is it romance? No. Could be if a writer takes it that way.
    Do I dislike Uhura or Zoe ? Nope. If anything I just have never been much of a Spock fan, and that probably has a bearing on it. I do think their relationship needs to either be built more in their scenes or dropped...but developing that kind of stuff in films that don’t exclusively focus on that relationship is hard. I can’t see Trek fans going for a Trek Rom-com. I find the Uhura Spock stuff dull, and enjoyed the Scotty Jayla stuff, but am not putting them against each other...except to say one was a high point of the movie for me, the other was not. The Spock Bones stuff was a highlight too.

    Race..non-threatening..what with the what now?
    I liked Jayla. *shrug* what’s her race or appearance got to do with it? It’s got naff all to do with it for me. Yeh I like her exotic linguistics, but that’s part of the character...I really have no idea what you are reaching for here tbh. Your assumptions seem a little..offensive tbh, and from what I can see, totally incorrect insofar as they relate to me. *shrug*

    And...in what way is Jayla desexualised? Assuming you mean a negative here, in what way is she not a female character?

    Edit: came back ten minutes later after thinking more. You know what, the Jayla Scotty stuff is totally possible to read as the beginnings of a relationship, it’s one of the things I like about it. Two tinkerers..Scotty is shown already in the reboots to be the most Federation of Federation characters, his best mate is very alien. So yeah. Its a better relationship than the Spock Uhura one which is largely shown to be devoid of any happy points. And I am not against their relationship on canon vs reboot grounds, I think it’s a good idea..except one that hasn’t been executed well.
    And desexualised Jayla? Look at her sat in the captains chair. It’s alien pin-up girl stuff, and she comes on screen fighting. This is a strong character, and teenage me would have happily had that poster on his wall. Since you are concerned us ‘fans of a certain kind’ (please note, since it’s my comment you are riffing on, it’s safe to say you include me in whatever box you are pigeonholing some people into.) May not I dunno..find her sexy enough? Isn’t it supposed to be a bad idea to do that now? Goodness knows.
    What are you getting at? Sf fans have always liked and accepted strong female characters, smurfette syndrome or not involved, and that’s the fault of the makers not the fans, and not something that happens uch in Trek...Voyager and Ds9 both had more than one girl in the gang.
    From my point of view, you can stuff more female characters in if they are like Jayla. Drop Spock, he’s dull in these reboots. I would watch an hour of reboot Scotty, reboot McCoy and Jayla over most of the other reboot characters. *shrug*
    People are strange.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  9. PixelMagic

    PixelMagic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    You have a massive 'patriarchy' persecution complex. I say that as a far left liberal.

    I also happen to love Michael Burnham and Tilly in Discovery, by the way. And I am not physically attracted to either, just to be clear. My interest in them is not eye candy. I just like them as characters only.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
    jaime likes this.
  10. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    I'm a fan of the Kelvin universe. I'd actually be interested in seeing some "Netflix" movies get made for some of the secondary characters, like McCoy and Sulu. As the movies are not part of CBS, I don't see why Netflix couldn't release a few films set in that universe.
     
  11. Spock's NeckBeard

    Spock's NeckBeard Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    There are significant rights issues to negotiate, and as CBS has a streaming service, any Trek spin-off films would be streamed by that service, at least in the US/Canada.
     
  12. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Yeah, I'm aware of all that, but my understanding is if Netflix screens the films in a movie theatre first (even in a limited run), it would be alright. Of course, I could be wrong, but I'm sure there are ways it could be done, so long as one doesn't compete against another. A Netflix 'movie' might not be seen as competition for a CBS All Access 'series'.
     
  13. Spock's NeckBeard

    Spock's NeckBeard Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    Netflix is a bonafide force in the movie and television industry. CBS sees it as a competitor (who occasionally offers a useful service) not as a service provider.
     
  14. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2013
    Location:
    The Northern Shires of England.
    I don't see saldana/uhura as a 'threat' to the 'big three' I just see her as a less interesting character, and I always have done right back to TOS.
     
  15. PixelMagic

    PixelMagic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    I know you probably THINK you believe she's an uninteresting character, but I'm sad to inform you that what's really going on is that you subconsciously hate women and want them to only ever be regulated to background characters! REEEEEEEEE!
     
  16. Malaika

    Malaika Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    sure:

    ... totally not putting them against each other^



    Personally, I don't see any romantic interest between Scotty and Jaylah (and from what I heard, the writers intended it to be more like a sibling dynamic), - and as secondary characters, I don't see how their relationship could get developed more than spock/uhura when even with Spock being one of the protagonists, and that relationship being important to their character development, it still hardly gets screentime. It seems disingenuos.
    Your argument that one relationship would be better than another seems to rely on personal preference and matter of principle alone, than actual evidence or something real to compare

    (but you weren't putting them against each other...)

    How weird that, btw, S/U had to deal with the aftermath of the vulcan genocide. Wouldn't it be cute to just see them ignore this narrative element and turn Spock into Simon Pegg?
    But of course I prefer Spock so I'd rather not see that happening..
    I find him interesting as a character and the potential of his relationships, that are more fitting to trek's themes for me. That, of course, when he gets the chance to have his personal life developed like it deserves, instead of being ostensibly reduced to nerdy friend of hero, and a pretentious symbolic fanon role in a trio of 3 dudes that doesn't even exist in this trek. Or like in Beyond, when he's stuck in a fan pandering tos homage bromance with McCoy that, due to how different and more contemporary this Spock is, comes across as too one sided, gratuitous and bigoted from McCoy's part (maybe in our time he could evolve from being the stereotype he was in tos as well, but that's another topic..).


    But I digress. Romances in the trek fandom, and specifically S/U, cannot win for some, anyway. I find disingenuos for people to use the argument that this kind of relationship isn't developed 'enough' , when even 5 minutes total of screentime the writers give to that kind of subplot makes some people have a nervous breakdown, and ask them to 'tone it down'. I bet some think it had to get toned down even in Beyond.
    These characters can't even k.i.s.s that certain fans will start to whine, go 'eww', and act as if a rather chaste kiss suddenly turns the movie into porn and it's everything the characters do in the whole movie. It's like some people see the characters as kids or asexuate beings, which isn't a sentiment I can honestly understand let alone share. For me romance and 'bromance' are both important to the story and both make it real, the idea that the second is more needed and important to the plot just because it was like that in the 60s is, well, stupid for me.


    I'd like to live in the alternate reality where you live. I bet the trek fandom is better there, too.
    Unfortunately, I live in this one and denial never was my thing.

    In spite of all the constant preaching about what is 'trek', this fandom is just like any other fandom with the same issues and clichés.


    no need to justify yourself.
     
  17. jaime

    jaime Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Location:
    London
    Your post is a bit odd. I express a preference for one on screen relationship over another because I found it more interesting and entertaining.
    NuSpock and Nuhura May be dealing with the aftermath of Vulcans destruction...but all we see of them is their arguing and breaking up. There is rare,y any other development.
    You tie this into all kinds of strange assumptions, some of which centre on the characters appearance in a way that feels like an odd kind of...identity politics perhaps? I have no idea. Personally, I think Jayla and Uhura both are strong characters, with good performers...I like Uhura being an engineer in beyond, separating the ship, working out What Kirk was trying to do because she knows her captain etc.. it all worked better than her scenes with Spock.
    I do not have a preference for Jayla because her skin is black in the right places and white in the right places, which seems to be this odd underlying theme in some of your words. Teenage me was fond of Jada Pickett (peaches in low down dirty shame) fairuza balk (Nancy in The Craft) and Penelope Cruz (I now forget her character name, but Jamon Jamon was where I first saw her.) but I am a little long in the tooth for cinema pin ups these days.
    I do not have a problem with female leads in anything...I am pissed off Dark Matter was Cancelled, and that’s full of them.

    Basically...I don’t like NuSpock much, Nuhura is held back by her relationship with him in story terms, which is a shame, because I was right behind that relationship (my dislike for reboots aside) because it played nice off the back of early TOS. Then you get NuScott who is likeable, and yes he wrote himself some cool bits, with Jayla who is likeable, and this odd meeting of the minds going on. It was fun. As a result, should Star Trek Carry On come out, I would rather watch those two go somewhere than NuSpock and Nuhura continue boldly going no where. Every time we see them they fight. That’s all they do.
     
  18. Malaika

    Malaika Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    In short, you compared them? ^
    It's odd you want to deny that, all the while you are constantly putting them against each other for reasons only you can discern.

    Again, since those two dynamics aren't the only ones the movies have, and as s/u have absolutely nothing in common with the little dynamic Pegg wrote for himself, it seems like the only reason you compare them is because they are the only ones with female characters too.
    That comes across as a passive aggressive way to pit the only two female characters against each other and make their dynamics mutually exclusive, when they don't have to be, all the while allowing plently of different dynamics about the dudes that already are more similar to the scotty one than s/u are (thus more redundant as genre).
    You don't need less spock/uhura, and to sideline uhura and her dynamics even more than beyond did, to have other dynamics.

    Frankly, instead of being a honest appreciation for Jaylah, your commentary reads like fanboy finding yet another childish excuse to get rid of the only important dynamic (more equal to the original trio one) that includes a woman.


    Fair enough, but assuming you really are this big scotty fan I'm doubtful your fave is this so much better developed character with better developed dynamics, your headcanons and fantasies about hypothetical developments aside.

    Personally, I think that criticizing s/u because Spock is not comic relief like Scotty (or the way he is) is a weak argument. But that's me.

    Out of 3 movies, they have one (1) argument once because he was being suicidal. That's all.
    The break up from Beyond is all implied, mature and graceful; you never see them arguing, you only see them being affected by a possible forced separation and then being OK when he decides to stay and they are back together in the end.
    Hopefully, if we had more movies there is no reason why they couldn't make a positive, happier, progress in their relationship now that his biggest conflict got resolved. No reason why the next time there needs to be drama again and they can't be just a happy couple and let other dynamics and characters have their own drama.
    To believe that isn't more far fetched than your imagination about the potential of a scotty romance we didn't even see.

    I'll will concede that the writers could've done much more with s/u and give them more scenes (but you gotta blame trek being still stuck in the past by nostalgia, pandering to haters, and bias for the male characters and their dynamics for that), but claiming that everything the couple does is arguing is as over the top hyperbolic as those fanboys whining that everything they do is making out just because they kiss a few times.

    You tell me, btw, what dynamic, new or old, was ever showed without conflict and only 'happy' in these movies? None.

    It seems a bit funny to paint s/u as the 'always arguing' dynamic of this trek, all the while passing the actual constant arguing in the dynamics between the male characters as character development, realistic friendship, and the highlights of these movies...
    Next Mccoy's fans will claim that Uhura is the 'racist' one who attacks Spock for his vulcan side, while the guys apparently accept him for who he is and complain about his alieness for his own good...
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  19. jaime

    jaime Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Location:
    London
    Hmm. Think I will go for short.
    I like Nuhura. I like her more in Beyond because on several occasions she actually does something.
    I compare the relationships because I enjoyed the one, and it drew attention to the other by being everything it was not.
    NuSpock is not a complex character...mostly he is angry and is the character most dependent on the Prime universe version, both in and out of the narrative, to have anything to build on. This starts well in 09, but goes downhill...though the first and better half of Into Darkness looks like it is going somewhere before it falls flat.
    Three films and however many years later, wouldn’t it be nice to actually see why he is in his relationship? To see a day not revolving around them making each other miserable?

    Again, you natter on with your offensive ‘passive-agressive’ Nonsense. Get the chip off your shoulder. I compared what would make a nice beginning to a romance (Scotty and Jayla) with one that seems to forever be falling apart whenever we see it in the narrative (Spock and Uhura.) because there’s no point me making a comparison between it and the much discussed ‘Uncle Sulu’ scene as the only other potentially romantic pairing in the film. It’s also the only other ‘new’ setup introduced in the films as far as interpersonal relationships go.
    Until Beyond I really didn’t like these films, and after the last one was so dependent on everything’s reboot I supposed to be about avoiding, I was surprised how many genuinely changed things they brought in...including Scotty being the one to strike up a friendship with the Alien Female Guest Star. Based at least in part on them having a shared interest. The only thing that makes the Spock and Uhura scenes even mildly entertaining or have any warmth to them is when McCoy shows up. Uhura does better on her own in this film, than she did in the previous two films. She saves a ton of lives, acts as a voice and leadership focus for the captured crew, faces some real horror, then provides the key to the whole shebang. She is a better character than Spock in this film. But their scenes together? They do nothing for me. I don’t feel sorry for jilted Spock, I don’t know why they get back together, I can’t work out why they are together in the first place. The relationship is just window dressing now, across all theee films, much as all the female characters were in the last film (with occasional exposition duties.)
    I don’t have a problem with Uhura gaining in prominence in this retelling, but frankly, until Beyond these films were both really all about Spock with Kirk woven in, as far as protagonists go. So I don’t know why anyone would find Uhura threatening...is this something to do with the posters still? Nonsense.

    I think I missed my target of short, but then, I am trying to elucidate on a point because of how mistaken and insulting your responses are, and how narrow minded those responses come over as. I can’t help it if pointy eared boy in blue isn’t earning my adoration or respect...his Prime version never held my attention much (my best Vulcan award goes to Tuvok.) and this new version is just a miserable git when he isn’t angry. *shrug*
    So yeah. Go Jayla of House. Go Scotty with the good accent. They have some life to them.
     
  20. Malaika

    Malaika Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    :rolleyes: ..

    I guess you disliked the first two so much you didn't even bother watching them.

    Narrow minded? Chip on the shoulder... ain't the pot calling the kettle black.

    Honestly, I still don't even get your point, especially when you say A but insist you are saying B.
    You are comparing and making the dynamics, thus, mutually exclusive, but then you claim you aren't doing that and you get defensive and attack me for replying to your comments using the very context that you have established from the beginning.

    Frankly, your argument loses credibility when you are over inflating a dynamic that was barely developed in beyond and that most likely begins and ends, in its real purpose, with the movie (and as I always saw Scotty as the most uninterested character about romance, that might surely play into my inability to perceive him having any potential in that kind of dynamic)
    Comparing it to s/u the way you are doing is a big stretch, it's just too forced. Not a wonder why you seem to have, honestly, some difficulty trying to explain it.

    It seems to me that you are just painting yourself into a corner here by trying to rationalize your biased perception of the narrative, and 'explain' this childish need to put the female characters (thus their dynamics) into a 'competition' and praise one only to find an excuse to criticize the other (and the previous movies, since you dislike them).

    You have derailed your own point. You could have praised one thing without making a conveniently forced comparison with the only other dynamic that includes a woman. That, in context of a fandom that has a history of overinflating the male dynamics and perceiving the woman as a threat to the white dudes status quo, exposes your argument to criticism for all the reasons I already explained.

    ps: it's Jaylah, btw.