Full Circle Partial Prologue on Amazon (Spoilers)

[Christopher]

I don't understand why people would think that "Resolutions" ended the Janeway/Chakotay attraction arc. To me, it was more a beginning than an ending. It was where they first really began to recognize each other's feelings and grew near the point of acting on them, but just as they were about to, they were cured and brought back to the ship and were no longer free to act on them. But their feelings for each other wouldn't disappear overnight just because their discipline required suppressing them. I always saw the finale of "Resolutions" as a deferral of their nascent romance arc, certainly not an ending for it. I assume that if Jeri Taylor had remained in charge, that arc would've been developed further eventually.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I assume that if Jeri Taylor had remained in charge, that arc would've been developed further eventually.

Sooner than "eventually," I'd think - the J/C arc was kind of her baby at that point, IIRC

 

[Trent Roman]

It was from this TrekMovie.com preview. The exact quote is:

One thing that Clark would not say is who is the captain, but she did reveal that it was not Chakotay who is "dealing with having his soul ripped out" due to the "apparent death of Kathryn Janeway"

Thanks for tracking that down. (Glad to see I wasn't too far off the mark.)

I'm not that into the shipper stuff, but I would have preferred it if the Chakotay/Seven relationship was continued (which is apparently not a popular opinion).

Gosh, no. That one got written out from the VOY-R books as perfunctorily as humanly possible. I think the only Trek relationship to end in a faster and more totalizing way was Data/Yar's "It never happened", and even that had some impact down the line. C/7 was erased with extreme prejudice.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[kimc]

I also considered the J/C thing to be over in "Resolutions",

I viewed "Resolutins" as the beginning.

Ironically enough the idea of J/C took a while to grow on me. I finally caved with "Timeless".

 

[crohnie]

I don't understand why people would think that "Resolutions" ended the Janeway/Chakotay attraction arc. To me, it was more a beginning than an ending. It was where they first really began to recognize each other's feelings and grew near the point of acting on them, but just as they were about to, they were cured and brought back to the ship and were no longer free to act on them. But their feelings for each other wouldn't disappear overnight just because their discipline required suppressing them. I always saw the finale of "Resolutions" as a deferral of their nascent romance arc, certainly not an ending for it. I assume that if Jeri Taylor had remained in charge, that arc would've been developed further eventually.

Can you tell my Mom that? She's blind to the J/C!
But I totally agree with you CB. Thanks for the comment.

I also considered the J/C thing to be over in "Resolutions",

I viewed "Resolutins" as the beginning.

Ironically enough the idea of J/C took a while to grow on me. I finally caved with "Timeless".

Me Too
Except I saw it before "Timeless" I think watching most of theses episodes for the first time on DVD and not on TV has something to do with that though.

 

[brcarthey]

I don't understand why people would think that "Resolutions" ended the Janeway/Chakotay attraction arc. To me, it was more a beginning than an ending. It was where they first really began to recognize each other's feelings and grew near the point of acting on them, but just as they were about to, they were cured and brought back to the ship and were no longer free to act on them. But their feelings for each other wouldn't disappear overnight just because their discipline required suppressing them. I always saw the finale of "Resolutions" as a deferral of their nascent romance arc, certainly not an ending for it. I assume that if Jeri Taylor had remained in charge, that arc would've been developed further eventually.

i hear what you're saying CB. at first i thought the same thing back when i started watching VOY, but after countless people telling me i was viewing it wrong i succumbed to the peer pressure. i know lousy excuse, but i was a newbie viewer at the time. but, it was just confusing over time b/c while she would have private dinners with chakotay in her quarters, outside she pursued other romantic avenues most notably with a hologram. then there was the whole haphazard introduction of the C/7 romance in the series finale really.

however, i'm not sure that that romance arc would've continued even with jeri remaining. they had ample opportunity to explore it some during season 3 and 4. but, instead they went with the paris/torres romance. i doubt they'd have had/wanted two couples in this series. but, who knows...i guess someone could always ask her. however, i've also read that kate mulgrew didn't want the romance angle for her character, wanted her to remain "sexless" (i believe was the description).

nonetheless, you do bring up valid points to the argument.

 

[joyofvgr]

Actually I saw a series of letters written to one of the fans. The first few were signed by Jeri Taylor and stated that There would be more J/C to come in Seasons 3 and 4. Then subsequent letters began to back off that topic. The first few saying that it was on the back burner and finally the last signed by Braga saying that J/C wouldn't evolve beyond friendship. I only saw them once and can't remember what website they were on for the life of me!

 

[nx1701g]

^good. i was afraid i was going to have to re-read the previous four novels and i don't think i have that kind of time right now.

And I don't think I have the interest in doing it. For some of those once was more than enough.

 

[Christopher]

i hear what you're saying CB. at first i thought the same thing back when i started watching VOY, but after countless people telling me i was viewing it wrong i succumbed to the peer pressure. i know lousy excuse, but i was a newbie viewer at the time. but, it was just confusing over time b/c while she would have private dinners with chakotay in her quarters, outside she pursued other romantic avenues most notably with a hologram.

But that wasn't because they didn't have feelings for each other, it was because they couldn't act on those feelings so long as he was under her command. It's not confusing at all if you keep in mind the difference between having a desire and acting on it. (This is why they did become lovers in my Myriad Universes: Places of Exile; once Chakotay was no longer under Janeway's command, there was no reason they couldn't act on what they felt.)

however, i'm not sure that that romance arc would've continued even with jeri remaining. they had ample opportunity to explore it some during season 3 and 4. but, instead they went with the paris/torres romance. i doubt they'd have had/wanted two couples in this series.

Again, the circumstances made it impossible for them to be an actual couple. Presumably any subsequent explorations of their feelings wouldn't have been about them actually getting together, but about them wrestling with the feelings they couldn't act on.

 

[brcarthey]

^let me guess...you're not a vulcan, but you play one on tv.

 

[Tachyon]

however, i'm not sure that that romance arc would've continued even with jeri remaining. they had ample opportunity to explore it some during season 3 and 4. but, instead they went with the paris/torres romance. i doubt they'd have had/wanted two couples in this series.

Again, the circumstances made it impossible for them to be an actual couple. Presumably any subsequent explorations of their feelings wouldn't have been about them actually getting together, but about them wrestling with the feelings they couldn't act on.

Agreed, 100%. I would have loved to see them wrestling with their feelings more without ending up together on the series (I am so called post-Endgame J/Cer, so I would have preferred them to get together on Earth, like it seems to happen in Full Circle (yay!).).

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

Again, the circumstances made it impossible for them to be an actual couple. Presumably any subsequent explorations of their feelings wouldn't have been about them actually getting together, but about them wrestling with the feelings they couldn't act on.

Of course it was not impossible for them to be a couple. This was first of all about Janeway`s personal attitude. She had the opinion that it was not possible for her to be a captain and have a relationship with Chakotay (or any other crew member) at the same time. I can understand that position but this was not a matter of something that is impossible but something she didn`t want to do.

I haven`t got Full Circle yet and so far I am not eager to put it on the top of my to-read list either.

 

[PaulSimpson]

I haven`t got Full Circle yet and so far I am not eager to put it on the top of my to-read list either.

Then, quite seriously, you'll be missing a treat. 2009 is becoming another great year for TrekLit and I'm really looking forward to seeing what Kristen does in Unworthy.

Paul

 

[MilitantJaneway]

From reading the snippets provided by Amazon, I was very happy to see that Kirsten gave us what we J/C fans have always wanted. This is of course tempered by the fact I already know how that relationship is going to end, and it has taken away some of my interest in reading it. I want to read it because of who its written by, but reading about the death of one of my favorite characters holds no appeal to me.

 

[kimc]

From reading the snippets provided by Amazon, I was very happy to see that Kirsten gave us what we J/C fans have always wanted. This is of course tempered by the fact I already know how that relationship is going to end, and it has taken away some of my interest in reading it. I want to read it because of who its written by, but reading about the death of one of my favorite characters holds no appeal to me.

I'm with you there. I would love to see Janeway in more adventures and if Trek Lit could do that and at the same time portray the J/C relationship in a mature manner then they will get me back as a reader.

 

[Square]

Let's just say, I don't think "grieving Chakotay" will hang around much past FC. And even if he spents FC in "grief mode," if you've ever lost someone you care about, you know it's not something you can just "get over." He'll be a sad-sack in this book, and hopefully move on by Unworthy.

Weren't we told that Chakotay would not be the captain of the Voyager in Unworthy on account of being grief-stricken over Janeway? Sounds like emo Chakotay might have a greater lifespan than you might expect. (Not that there isn't precedant: according to "Endgame", Chakotay never recovered from the heartbreak of losing Seven in the original timeline.)

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

Honestly.....

Spoiler: I'm naughty...

I went ahead and read the ending of FC. It looks like Chakotard is actually going to stick around on Earth for a reason, AND his not being the captain in Unworthy is partially to do with his desire to stop defining himself in terms of Janeway.

In any case, good riddance "Captain Chakotay." I really didn't want to read about his putz-ness.

 

[Square]

i agree with most of what you said, but i always thought they put the J/C debate to rest with the "resolutions" episode. i've read that jeri taylor really pushed the P/T romance, but not so much the J/C romance. IMO, i believe her battle with braga to bring the P/T romance to fruition was part of the reason she left. braga, it's been said, wanted a P/7 romance but didn't get it. he eventually got it with the trip/t'pol pairing though. but, that's why he was on record as saying the P/T pairing was barely touched upon during the 5th and 6th seasons.

Well, between the original "Resolutions" script, the previews for season 4, which featured a deleted J/C moment, and Taylor's novels, I'm fairly certain she was a J/Cer. Don't know how hardcore she was, but she was nonetheless. As for "Resolutions" putting it to bed in the series, I think an argument can be made that it put a huge damper on it in the SHOW, in the books, however, J/C still cropped up. Golden was obviously a J/Cer, and Bennet had them ride off into the sunset together in Infinity's Prism.

as far as the romantic entanglements, there really weren't many as far as trek goes. there was certainly a lot of teasing and failed relationships throughout TNG and DS9 so i was actually glad that they allowed, kept and somewhat explored a relationship in one of the series without them breaking up or having one of the characters die. i don't think it detracted from the overall story and added some realism (at least) to this series since there was the possibility that they were going to be on a ship for the rest of their lives.

I don't mind relationships, just the fans' reactions to said relationships. It's amazing how puerile people can become when two characters don't get between the sheets. I' just not a "shipper." I don't get it.

 

[SiorX]

I don't mind relationships, just the fans' reactions to said relationships. It's amazing how puerile people can become when two characters don't get between the sheets. I' just not a "shipper." I don't get it.

Wandering slightly OT, but I've never understood how anyone can possibly be bothered to remember any of the specs of starships and other Treknology, let alone care how it works, when it's contradictory in canon, and which bits of it could succesfully defeat which other bits of it. We're all nutsy fen in our own ways, I think.

 

[William Leisner]

We're all nutsy fen in our own ways, I think.

QFT

 

[Lonemagpie]

Well, between the original "Resolutions" script, the previews for season 4, which featured a deleted J/C moment, and Taylor's novels, I'm fairly certain she was a J/Cer.

J/C was very much her idea.