interesting, though not surprising. on the dvd extras she never mentions this relationship, but does talk about the P/T relationship. i guess she was the "relationship guru" among the trek producers.
Full Circle Partial Prologue on Amazon (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Madzilla
- Start date
I think it's a little misplaced to use fan "shipping" terminology to refer to the creative intentions of a show's creators or producers. One is an outsider's perspective and tends to be single-focused; the other is an insider's perspective and is part of a global set of creative elements being considered as a whole. It's like the difference between being a lobbyist and being the President. You can't truly say that a show's producer is a shipper, because that producer can't focus on a single pair of characters to the exclusion of everything else. It may be a subtle distinction, but Jeri Taylor's decision to establish a potential romantic connection between Chakotay and Janeway is not the same thing as "being a J/Cer."
For what it's worth, the original series bible, which probably owed at least as much to Michael Piller as to Jeri Taylor, stated that Janeway and Chakotay established a "powerful bond," but didn't specify the nature of that bond. And what series producers generally do is test out various potential romantic pairings among the cast, see which pairs have chemistry and which ones don't, and let that guide their decisions about which relationships to develop. So the decision to take Janeway and Chakotay in a potentially romantic direction may have been a response to chemistry between the actors, rather than an agenda on one producer's behalf. Which is another key difference between a producer's job and a shipper's fantasies. The latter doesn't have to have any grounding in reality.
For what it's worth, the original series bible, which probably owed at least as much to Michael Piller as to Jeri Taylor, stated that Janeway and Chakotay established a "powerful bond," but didn't specify the nature of that bond. And what series producers generally do is test out various potential romantic pairings among the cast, see which pairs have chemistry and which ones don't, and let that guide their decisions about which relationships to develop. So the decision to take Janeway and Chakotay in a potentially romantic direction may have been a response to chemistry between the actors, rather than an agenda on one producer's behalf. Which is another key difference between a producer's job and a shipper's fantasies. The latter doesn't have to have any grounding in reality.
I agree. The chemistry between Kate Mulgrew and Rob Beltran was evident (at least to me
) in the television run, and it wouldn't have been unbeliveable for their two characters to form a romantic bond over time. If Full Circle is going to confirm this then that's great for the "shippers", but as we all know, Janeway is gonzo...so the inevitable heartbreak for Chakotay is right around the corner. I can't wait for this book
Well, I wasn't trying to be overly technical when I refered to Taylor as a "J/Cer." My bad. I assumed you'd know what I meant.
As for the J/C relationship, it WAS Taylor's original idea. Why they never went forward with it in the show, who knows, but I'm not even really concerned with what happened on the show. In the books, J/C was a stronger presence, largery due to Golden's stuff, but whether it was a better idea in print than on television is, of course, debatable.
I was completely with you right up until the very last sentence. Surely it'd be truer to say that 'shipping is based on the chemistry fans perceive, often bolstered (though sometimes thwarted) by the producers' creative decisions based on the same chemistry?
The shipper, as you say, can be single-focussed. Shipping's a tertiary industry, after all. But surely its grounding is the same as that of the producer - in perceived chemistry - just without the demands of scope and responsibility to a bigger creative and financial picture.
^Rational shipping can be grounded in perceived chemistry. But there are shippers, and fanfic authors in general, who have no problem with ignoring established facts of characterization in order to justify their preferences. How else to explain Harry Potter/Draco Malfoy slash? (Ick.)
Probably good to keep in mind that slash =/ shipping. I can bang out a Torres/Seven slash fic because the, er, aesthetics of such a pairing might appeal to me, even as I recognize that such a relationship, if true to the characters, would never work. When it comes to fanfic, it's all varying levels of fantasy anyway.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
amen!! preach it brutha benny!!
Having read the excerpt, I am bitterly disappointed at the lack of references to Janeway's Brain!!!!
^ THEY SAVED JANEWAY'S BRAIN... for the later chapters.
Harry Potter discussion? On a Star Trek board? *jumps in delightedly*
Hermione/Snape is the one that evokes the most visceral "Ewww!" reaction from me.
As for the person who made the HBP reference, there's more canon evidence for Hermione/Draco than Harry, and that's saying something, given that that in and of itself is a repulsive and illogical pairing.
As for shipping, there are plenty of things I find best left ignored. (This includes everything from any of the abovementioned HP pairings to even canon relationships that seem to owe little to logic - C/7 being the primary one that springs to mind, although I'd even extend this to include Worf/Troi.)
If they did, can we give it to the "resurrect Janeway" people as a peace offering?
^Well, if Janeway's brain isn't available, there's another one over here... looks like it belonged to someone named Abby. Abby Normal.
i'm a little late to this argument, but why do fans who are upset over janeway's literary death get so much scorn and ridicule heaped on them by the rest of the trek fandom? it seems that if it had been picard or sisko there would be just as much, it not more, uproar. it seems a tad elitist.
Most of them don't get scorn and ridicule. It's the three or four people who voice their personal opinions by claiming they speak for some vast horde of militant fans who represent the majority of the Star Trek audience and will boycott Pocket and drive it out of business; who persist in restarting the same old circular arguments over and over again every couple of weeks; and who become increasingly hostile toward those who disagree with them as the discussions go on. Naturally, that provokes negative reactions from others. That should not be construed as a hostility toward Janeway fandom per se, any more than, say, objecting to the AIG executives' bonuses reflects hostility toward capitalism per se.
Not at all. I wouldn't protest Picard or Sisko dying if it served a greater story. Spock's death comes to mind. Remember that there was no intention whatsoever of bringing him back, and I accepted his death because it worked so well. Then Nimoy changed his mind after the fact, and that opened Pandora's Box. Dead means dead, even Jim Kirk, whose death was handled poorly and served no lasting purpose. But I accept Janeway's death just as I did Spock's.
fair enough.
