Frakes talks about DS9
- Thread starter DS9forever
- Start date
Or one of the "Klingons" utterly convinced, for life, of the authenticity of L'Rell's bomb.
I am surprised that Frakes is one Trek actor who has really embraced Trek, and the scifi genre in general. He hasn't run away from it. I guess he wasn't afraid to be typecast or anything of the kind. I got the impression that he has milked his association with Trek for all its worth, and it seems that he has been rewarded for it in his post TNG acting career. More power to him.Man, Marina Sirtis can sure be snarky. At least she has a legacy of expertly playing one of Trek's best characters to back her up.
Frakes impresses me as one Trek actor who really gets the show. I also like how he praises shows for taking risks. Seem to remember another comment of his acknowledging early TNG's failings while pointing out how daring it was.
Also: "Voyager always felt like Next Gen lite to me." PREACH, FRAKES! That perfectly sums up how I feel about VOY, although I think Star Trek Lite would be more appropriate.
There were no consequences for Sisko, as far as I remember. I don't think Sisko ever reflected on his actions in "In the Pale Moonlight" after that episode. After that episode, Sisko never had to confront the morality of what he did.
Odo had to confront an incident in his past when he helped to execute innocent Bajorans during the occupation in "Things Past". I think Kira might have had to deal with the consequences of her role in the occupation in various episodes, as well.
I think Pale Moonlight might have been a more compelling story (if that is indeed possible) if someone else with a conscience, like Bashir, had found out about what had happened.
In "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" (that's a mouthful.
btw is that Latin?), Bashir discovered that what happened in the episode was actually an Admiral Ross/Section 31 plot. When he found out, he confronted Ross mano a mano, and he ripped into Ross.Ultimately, Bashir didn't squeal on Ross, but at least he forced Ross to have to justify his action and to face the judgment of a dissenter, even if it was just one other person. Sisko never had to face that. I think we know how Bashir would have reacted if he had found out. But how would Sisko have justified it to Bashir. It would have been interesting to see Sisko having to face someone who would have confronted him about what he did.
I think the best way to sum up VOYAGER is that it's basically TNG with DS9 characters. Largely episodic like TNG, but with flawed characters like DS9 that have some character growth. It's a weird middle ground that the show ultimately settled with.
It would have made a good follow-up episode for Odo to put it together and have a chat with Sisko about it. There's evidence Odo knew about, and more that he could have found out about: Quark not prosecuting, death of a creepy forger of data rods, secret visit and then explosion of Vreenak's ship, Garak and Sisko spending a lot of time together...
Last edited:
Of wildly differing levels. My boy Harry K gets no character growth, yo!
(And honestly, now that I think about it do Tuvok, Chakotay, Janeway, or Paris really have much growth, or does stuff just happen to them for the most part?)
----
As for Pale Moonlight, Sisko does confront the morality of what he did. That's what the episode is about. Just because he doesn't get into a discussion about it later on with another character doesn't mean we didn't explore the ramifications of his decisions. You don't have to see him thinking about it when no one is watching, we know how it affects him already. That's not to say it wouldn't have been interesting to revisit, but not bringing it up again is not the same as ignoring it.
That's why I said "some", as I typed that word out I was literally thinking "boy, Chakotay really went nowhere did he?". One of the many criticisms Beltran threw at the writing of Chakotay is that he not only did he not progress as a character but in fact may have regressed.
I do think Paris had some growth, but it was more minimal and not anywhere close to Doc, Seven, and Torres. Kes looked like she was starting to grow as her own person in the third season, but then she got written off and came back as a psychopath. Janeway didn't grow, she just seem to change at the whim of every new showrunner that came in.
I do wish Tuvok was more utilized. I loved the early dynamic with him being Janeway's closest confidant, but then he just got dropped at some point only having an occasional episode or being paired with Neelix for some odd couple comedy.
I do think Paris had some growth, but it was more minimal and not anywhere close to Doc, Seven, and Torres. Kes looked like she was starting to grow as her own person in the third season, but then she got written off and came back as a psychopath. Janeway didn't grow, she just seem to change at the whim of every new showrunner that came in.
I do wish Tuvok was more utilized. I loved the early dynamic with him being Janeway's closest confidant, but then he just got dropped at some point only having an occasional episode or being paired with Neelix for some odd couple comedy.
Same, man. Same.
Paris had quite a bit of growth, I thought. He went from a cynical outsider who was disliked by both Starfleet and the Maquis in the pilot to being a respected member of senior staff and family man at the end. The difference between Paris and the other three is that his changes tended to occur more subtly over time, as opposed to giving him the more introspective character building stories that develop greater depth. So I agree in general, I just wouldn’t say it was “more minimal”, but rather more gradual.
I totally agree with your other assessments, especially about Tuvok.
They could do a "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" homage and have Frakes working with Harry Mudd
In "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" (that's a mouthful.
yes I believe it is Latin for 'in times of war the law falls silent' another way of saying the ends justify the means .
on the topic of Frakes appearing on Discovery, I think he would be great as a crew member for Mudd
I think he could play a scoundrel well. And it would also get me another Mudd episode
Because he killed O'Brien's spider
This is an insult to DS9 characters.
To elaborate my point, I mean they are DS9 characters in concept rather than execution. TNG's cast are relatively straightforward pros with not a lot of demons. DS9 and VOYAGER were both specifically designed by Piller to have a set of characters that were more varied, so to provide a lot more conflict than Roddenberry's idea of Starfleet in the 24th century allowed. Hence mixing things up with the Bajoran militia, civies, a smuggler, a convict, and fugitives. DS9 obviously took much greater advantage of its concept while VOYAGER tried to hide its criminal characters in a starfleet uniform and pretend it was just another generic Star Trek show that only occasionally played up its unique premise.
I love Frakes even more now
Don't remember him appearing on Enterprise, I do recall an Episode of TNG at the end of ENT run guest staring the ENT crew I think the episode was called "These Are The Voyages..."
Similar threads
