First-Timer's Impressions of Deep Space Nine

[flemm]

How about... Bashir taking a trip to another guy's mind? Or even better, Bashir and O'Brien taking a trip to another guy's mind? This may or may not happen before the end of the show... I'm not saying anything...

I feel like I'm taking a trip into Ira Behr's mind, who is apparently a spiritual ancestor of our own Jimmy Bob

Inside of everyone's mind = DS9 = bottle show= good

But seriously, not a bad episode

 

[Pemmer Harge]

I'll just make an observation. Bashir certainly has been in everywhere this season. He and Sisko are like the new writer favorites.

Yeah, this is the year that those two characters really came into their own. I think this is part of why I like Season 3 so much.

Distant Voices, however, doesn't do much for me.

 

[flemm]

I'll just make an observation. Bashir certainly has been in everywhere this season. He and Sisko are like the new writer favorites.

Yeah, this is the year that those two characters really came into their own. I think this is part of why I like Season 3 so much.

Distant Voices, however, doesn't do much for me.

Interestingly, it's actually the only true Bashir episode of the season, but he does have strong outings in Past Tense and Life Support.

As the DS9 writers often do, Distant Voices is a bit of a projection of the creative struggles the staff is having with the character: he has to explore the various facets of his personality, overcome self-doubt, etc., "before it's too late."

Spoiler: Mild season 3 spoiler

Facets is pretty similar for Dax.

 

[TheGodBen]

I guess there is a chance that only weird people like me like this episode.

Yes, but don't worry, doctors now have pills to cure you of these symptoms.

I enjoy Distant Voices in a weird sort of way, but I don't love it. It also has some continuity issues with events that will be revealed later. Events that may or may not pertain to Bashir's sexuality.




But more than likely wont.

How about... Bashir taking a trip to another guy's mind? Or even better, Bashir and O'Brien taking a trip to another guy's mind?

How about Bashir and O'Brien taking a trip into another guy's mind and Bashir revealing that he loves O'Brien?




Seriously, Bashir's probably not gay.

 

[apenpaap]

I like Distant Voices too. In fact, I can't think of a single episode featuring Garak that I didn't like.

I guess there is a chance that only weird people like me like this episode.

Yes, but don't worry, doctors now have pills to cure you of these symptoms.

I enjoy Distant Voices in a weird sort of way, but I don't love it. It also has some continuity issues with events that will be revealed later. Events that may or may not pertain to Bashir's sexuality.




But more than likely wont.

How about... Bashir taking a trip to another guy's mind? Or even better, Bashir and O'Brien taking a trip to another guy's mind?

How about Bashir and O'Brien taking a trip into another guy's mind and Bashir revealing that he loves O'Brien?




Seriously, Bashir's probably not gay.

Spoiler: future events

 

[Bones2]

Season 3 is definitely the season of The Sisko, the point at which he turns into one of my favorite Trek characters. As with Samson, the man's strength seems to be linked to his hairstyle

I'd agree with that, if you meant his strength as a character. When he shaved it off he turned into a complete twunt.

 

[flemm]

Season 3 is definitely the season of The Sisko, the point at which he turns into one of my favorite Trek characters. As with Samson, the man's strength seems to be linked to his hairstyle

I'd agree with that, if you meant his strength as a character. When he shaved it off he turned into a complete twunt.

Yeah, or something

 

[Luther Sloan]

I am in reverse of that theory. I actually liked Bald Sisko over the Haired Sisko any given day of the week. Avery Brooks at least acted (or performed) a little better under his shiny Picard visage. At least in my opinion, anyways.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Through the Looking Glass

Tuvok!

+ Sisko showing again what he's made of. You think it's foreshadowing something, that twice in this season Sisko has taken up the role that people want/need him to be (saviour, messiah) and willingly going to the end with it, his love for his fellow sentient being just beaming out of him?

+ Mirror Jadzia. You think that with Fascination and this that the writers were trying out something? She was... I never realized how big Jadzia actually is. And the hair and clothes, why doesn't Prime Jadzia look like that?

+ Mirror O'Brien has become someone interesting.

+ Jennifer. That Felecia Bell sure is beautiful. I think I will model my next female Shepard after her.

- You see so little of those mirror characters you'd want to see more of.

- Mirror Kira is stupid.

- Mirror Universe relies too much on the Prime Universe. But I guess you just gotta swallow it down.

Should I be making Maquis comparisons? That in one universe Sisko is with the terrorists and in the other against?

It's interesting that vulcans and humans are in this together. Considering that vulcans used to be slaves for humans. And now I guess they're both slaves?

Well, now there's going to be a bit of a break from updates. Now, I know that I've done these 7-10 days of silence periods before, but this time I just wanted to say that I'm going to do a 7-10 day silence period.

Summer Solstice, or Midsummer's Eve is a very important holiday in my corner of the world. Bonfires, weird rituals, alcohol, white nights... I'll be taking a refreshing plunge into the great material continuum.

But I'll be back.

 

[TheGodBen]

Through the Looking Glass

Tuvok!

Sans goatee.

+ Mirror Jadzia. You think that with Fascination and this that the writers were trying out something? She was... I never realized how big Jadzia actually is. And the hair and clothes, why doesn't Prime Jadzia look like that?

Because DS9 isn't Voyager, and on DS9 when they have trouble defining a lead character they try to address to problem rather than putting her in a wonderbra. I'm not quite sure what Voyager was thinking when they put that bra on Chakotay, it didn't make him any sexier, he just looked uncomfortable.

+ Jennifer. That Felecia Bell sure is beautiful. I think I will model my next female Shepard after her.

I tried to model my first male Shepard after The Sisko, but he ended up with a really weird cheek structure that bugged me throughout the two games.

Should I be making Maquis comparisons? That in one universe Sisko is with the terrorists and in the other against?

You probably shouldn't think too deeply about the Mirror Universe, it's very comic bookish and each time the show revisits it it becomes more cartoony. The Maquis are supposed to be taken seriously, but the MU is supposed to be mindless fun for the most part.

Well, now there's going to be a bit of a break from updates. Now, I know that I've done these 7-10 days of silence periods before, but this time I just wanted to say that I'm going to do a 7-10 day silence period.

Now?! You're taking a break NOW?!! You have horrible timing, seriously horrible timing. The next episode is a Garak episode. And Sisko's beard will be arriving soon!

Summer Solstice, or Midsummer's Eve is a very important holiday in my corner of the world. Bonfires, weird rituals, alcohol, white nights... I'll be taking a refreshing plunge into the great material continuum.

Ah, booze, I understand. Still, Garak is more important than booze.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

+ Mirror O'Brien has become someone interesting

Yes - he's become Normal O'Brien!

+ Jennifer. That Felecia Bell sure is beautiful.

She is, isn't she?

Good episode this, I like it almost as much as Crossover.

 

[CorporalClegg]

What a great thread. I just wasted three hours reading it.

And I had a lot to fucking get done today!!

 

[InklingStar]

Well, now there's going to be a bit of a break from updates. Now, I know that I've done these 7-10 days of silence periods before, but this time I just wanted to say that I'm going to do a 7-10 day silence period.

Now?! You're taking a break NOW?!! You have horrible timing, seriously horrible timing. The next episode is a Garak episode. And Sisko's beard will be arriving soon!

I think he knows just how awesome the next episode is, and is deliberately making us wait.

 

[JRS]

+ Mirror Jadzia. You think that with Fascination and this that the writers were trying out something? She was... I never realized how big Jadzia actually is. And the hair and clothes, why doesn't Prime Jadzia look like that?

Indeed, she looked great
But lets not forget Mirror Kira in that episode:

 

[Jimmy Bob]

I think he knows just how awesome the next episode is, and is deliberately making us wait.

Next? I thought the episode after the next was the awesome one.

This is Jimmy Bob, reporting live at somekinda rural center, outdoor wi-fi, mosquitoes everywhere. In the middle of the night. The next episodes were so awesome that I had to break my break and take a trip into mosquito swamp, because I care so much about this thread. And they have wi-fi. I've been in no internet zone for past week.

Improbable Cause


There was something funny about this episode. It was like suddenly everyone spoke like Garak – all ultra evasive and shady, words meaning something else than they do. Until Odo went all Jack Bauer on Garak. Until that moment I had a tiny suspicion that it was going to be one of those „dream=false reality“ episodes. The dialogue, no matter by whom it was spoken, was very Garak throughout this episode.

+Garak episodes are always, at least in dialogue if not the whole deal, brilliantly (over)written.

+The Shadow Guy In The Cave

+Pairing Odo and Garak. Now there's something interesting going on there.

-Not clear enough in overall tone.

-Shakespeare! I hate this lovefest that Trek has with Shakespeare. Why is Shakespeare THE HUMAN WRITER! Why not Tolstoy, Dostoyevski, any of the french writers or Goethe for crissakes. Why is Shakespeare more important than Goethe? Are the writers really Shakespeare fans or is it just some sort of group thinking? Whatever it is, it's disgustingly anglo-centric. I hate it.

That guy. That Garak's old friend. Thane, Dane, Thain, D'Hain al Arak Su Namun something. Is he the same guy who was in that episode, whatsitsname, the one where Garak was sick and Bashir did everything he could to save him? There was a guy in that episode. Garak's old colleague who gave information to Bashir about Garak. And then said that you can't trust Garak. The same guy?

 

[Jimmy Bob]

The Die Is Cast

Oh my God! That was epic! They were just completely owned! Now Dominion gives out that sense of dread!

+Still sharply written, now with a clearer overall tone and epic moments of memorability.

+Odo's Freddy Krueger makeup scene.

+The way it turned out to be a trap. „You're one of the Founders.“

+The scene where Garak goes to rescue Thain, Thain has a nervous breakdown, and Garak tries and tries and then Odo punches Garak and carries him away.

+ "We should have a breakfast together sometime.“

- It feels so weird to see only Rick Berman's name in the end executive producer credits. Improbable Cause still had Michael Piller's name in it. Now that's not a bad thing... I was just looking for something.

So, if Thain was the same guy in that „Garak is sick, Bashir is going to rescue him“ episode, who said to Bashir that you can't trust Garak.... then the revelations in this episode, reveal that his mysterious warning was just coming from his dissapointment, and give those words a much different meaning. Family Issues meaning, instead of „Garak is the Eternal Deceiver“ meaning.

We certainly learn quite a lot about Garak and Odo in these last two episodes. Garak seems much more vulnerable now to me. We already know Odo's issues, so Odo's Freddy Krueger makeup scene didn't break any illusions, but Garak certainly seems much more smaller now. I don't mean it as a bad thing. I guess the word I'm looking for is humanized.

Definitely pairing him up with Odo, who's such a great observer, and goes just around people's defenses and then leaves them staring in astonishment while the end credits roll, certainly adds to that. That was a really great ending.

"Why constable, I thought you didn't eat."
"I don't."

It leaves one with a impresstion that they now share a special bond in understanding how both are similar in their situation related to their life of DS9 and their own people. „I think it might be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.“

It was about for season 3 to show Dominion anyway. These last few episodes, from 15-19, were just so filler. It's like in every late-mid season DS9 stalls a bit. That cave scene was just a sad excuse for a Dominion. We... I wanted real Dominon shit. And this episode finally delivered it. We knew that Romulans were actively concerned about the Gamma Quadrant threat, as we saw in that episode where the romulans wanted to collapse the wormhole. And that they secretly would work with Cardassians on a Final Solution while the Starfleet sleeps makes sense.

And then they failed so horribly.

So I guess, since I know that Worf comes in season 4 (and whom I'm prepared to hate already, since I can't stand the thought of any TNG coming to DS9 and staying. It seems so patronising. I mean DS9 are it's own people now, and going through their own stuff and I as a viewer am bonding with them and then comes this stupid Worf with his ridiculous hair and is all „oh, I'm so popular that I can be both in the movies and the new Trek show, suck it up bitches! I ownses you all! I gets now all the good episodes now! Muhahahaha!!! Who has two thumbs and is better than you guys? This guy!“ What a douchebag! I hate him already!), that season 4 is about the Dominion dealing with the other two Alpha Quadrant rivals – Klingon Empire and Federation?

Anything bad? Umm... that guy, the one who sabotaged the cloaking device, mr. Ed was it? Umm... was he the same guy who had just one line in The Search, when Seska said that she was not there to make friends and then he comes and says „I am“ and it seemed like he was taking Odo's place, but he actually dissapeared for the entire season?

Worst closet extra ever! He is! Sad excuse for a character, a secret extra to exist just as a vehicle of the plot and then discarded forever. Why did it bother me? Because of his lines, his sudden re-importance, his „Odo's my friend too!“... I was like who is that guy? How does he know Odo? Why is he even there?

Badly written sad excuse of a conflict character and in reality a closet extra. If only he would have had some other building scenes in many episodes before this episode... but he had just some line a million years ago and now is suddenly so important to be in the story. When we managed to make it without him for the entire season?


I hate these kinds of things.

Awesome episode! And before I forget.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Explorers

Hello there!

Is that the same actress, who had a drooling thread dedicated to her and then her boyfriend came there and was like „Yo Nerds! Wassup! Jerking off to my wife, huh! So sad! But yo nerds, you gotta ask yourself a question! Who has two thumbs and fucks that pussy every single day? This guy! So how did I find this thread? Well I google my girlfriend every single day. You would too if you're as cool as me. That's me – the man. Google me up! So nerds, gonna give me pictures of your girlfriends? No? That's what I thought. Fat chicks, huh! So sad. I understand, I was once like you. Ha! Who am I kidding! I am always awesome! So yeah, suck it up bitches!“

Because the legs are certainly familiar. What ever happened actually after the boyfriend came on board? I don't know because I went away. Anyway.

Damn there are these weird small bugs here that get into your eye. And I my hands re together with that repellant. I would do so much more. I would share my Shepard pictures with GodBen. I probably should come in daylight instead. Fuck. Anyway.

Who is that guy? Who is he? What's his name? Hmm... I think I call him Mister Khan.

What a beard!

Mister Khan: „I'm going to build a boat.“

Relax man, you just had a beard. Take it easy.

It's definitely very steampunk.

Okay enough of random. I think it was a good episode. Especially in the larger picture sense. A season has to have these calm light moments too, and it was, certainly much better as it than Fascination (which I liked), since it doesn't do humor of questionable taste, but is just dedicated to light but meaningful character moments.

„You're not the inbetween kind of guy. People either love you or hate you. I mean, I first hated you when we first met.“
„I remember.“
„And now... I don't“
„Thanks a lot. I really means a lot to me.“
„Really. That's from the heart. I really do... not hate you anymore.“

The drunken scene between Bashir and O'Brien was just... inspired.

„We should go to Quark's and sing it... for everybody.“

What is it with alcohol and desire to do public singing? Cause I was just drunk recently and I was up for a karaoke too. It's weird.

But what I really liked was that they were actually drunk. Together with all that „you can barely stand up right now“ and „good point“. That's why synthesized alcohol is such a failure. Sometimes you just really want to be drunk, like really drunk without the ability to just shrug it off.

Arrghh... there was this big one now.

I have less to say about Sisko side of the episode, because I just don't know what to say. The ship was nice. Gave the father and son an excuse to talk. What else can I say?

Life certainly must be boring and slow on DS9 if Bashir's private life is such a major betting event there. And regarding „ancient bajorans sailing starships“ being such a historical mystery. Did they not have space technology in between ancient and non-ancient? Somekind of dark age?

Sisko has a beard now. Just saying.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Improbable Cause and The Die is Cast together make one of the very best stories on DS9. The writing's some of the strongest of the series and they combine plot and character very well. I think that this is DS9's best two-parter. Moreover, in my opinion, the space battle from The Die is Cast is the best they ever did on DS9 - not visually, but as a dramatic sequence.

And yes, Tain was the older Cardassian from The Wire.

 

[CorporalClegg]

-Shakespeare! I hate this lovefest that Trek has with Shakespeare. Why is Shakespeare THE HUMAN WRITER!

Well probably because most people perceive him as such. His work is also perceived (around the world) as the definitive dram and most that came after (incluing from the authors you mentioned) were, in some way, derivative of it.

So I guess, since I know that Worf comes in season 4 (and whom I'm prepared to hate already, since I can't stand the thought of any TNG coming to DS9 and staying. It seems so patronising.

Well, without spoiling too much, I'll say Worf was done much better on DS9. On TNG he was a bumbling buffoon: a caricature. On DS9 he actually had a personality. So much so, that, in retrospect, I (as I think many do) consider him a DS9 character first.

 

[DevilEyes]

-Shakespeare! I hate this lovefest that Trek has with Shakespeare. Why is Shakespeare THE HUMAN WRITER! Why not Tolstoy, Dostoyevski, any of the french writers or Goethe for crissakes. Why is Shakespeare more important than Goethe? Are the writers really Shakespeare fans or is it just some sort of group thinking? Whatever it is, it's disgustingly anglo-centric. I hate it.

I hate it, too. And I actually love Shakespeare, but geez guys, don't you know that there are other great writers? Including those who didn't write in English?

NerysGhemor makes a good point that Dostoyevski would probably be more suitable if you want to introduce Human literature to a Cardassian. "Crime and Punishment" seems like something a Cardassian might appreciate while OTOH it provides a link between the two cultures: we know from the start that the main character is guilty, it's all about the guilty person coming to finally confess to the crime and accept the punishment; while on the other hand the Human idea of redemption is at the heart of the novel, which would probably be something new to Garak as Cardassian culture doesn't seem to know about it.

That guy. That Garak's old friend. Thane, Dane, Thain, D'Hain al Arak Su Namun something. Is he the same guy who was in that episode, whatsitsname, the one where Garak was sick and Bashir did everything he could to save him? There was a guy in that episode. Garak's old colleague who gave information to Bashir about Garak. And then said that you can't trust Garak. The same guy?

Enabran Tain. Yep, that's him. He wasn't just a colleague, he was his boss and mentor. Now I don't remember how much was revealed about him in which episode, so I better stop... Didn't they already make clear what his position in the Obsidian Order was?

-Shakespeare! I hate this lovefest that Trek has with Shakespeare. Why is Shakespeare THE HUMAN WRITER!

Well probably because most people perceive him as such. His work is also perceived (around the world) as the definitive dram and most that came after (incluing from the authors you mentioned) were, in some way, derivative of it.

Um... no. Goethe, Tolstoy, Dostoyevski,, etc. were not "derivative" of Shakespeare at all, most of them weren't even all that influenced by him (it's particularly unlikely in Tolstoy's case, as he actually disliked Shakespeare), and there are plenty of authors and a lot of other world literature that is not influenced by Shakespeare any more than it's influenced by many other authors. European literature was more influenced by classical Greek and Roman authors and Aristotles' ideas about tragedy and comedy. Then there's also the literature of Middle Ages and the Italian Renaissance (Dante, Petrarca, Bocaccio). You would make more of a case if you said that Goethe was influenced by Christopher Marlowe ("Faustus"). And Shakespeare himself was definitely derivative of many other authors - the stories of his plays were mostly reworked from other works.

So I guess, since I know that Worf comes in season 4 (and whom I'm prepared to hate already, since I can't stand the thought of any TNG coming to DS9 and staying. It seems so patronising. I mean DS9 are it's own people now, and going through their own stuff and I as a viewer am bonding with them and then comes this stupid Worf with his ridiculous hair and is all „oh, I'm so popular that I can be both in the movies and the new Trek show, suck it up bitches! I ownses you all! I gets now all the good episodes now! Muhahahaha!!! Who has two thumbs and is better than you guys? This guy!“ What a douchebag! I hate him already!), that season 4 is about the Dominion dealing with the other two Alpha Quadrant rivals – Klingon Empire and Federation?

Well... sort of. But it's a bit more complicated, and it's not like Cardassia is out of the picture just because the Obsidian Order is no more. Romulans will be absent from the show for a while, but they'll eventually be back with a vengeance.

As for Worf... well, you are definitely wrong about one thing: he does not get all the good episodes... not at all. In fact, when I think of the great episodes of seasons 4-7, there's just a couple of those that are Worf-centric. Which isn't to say that he doesn't get some good storylines, but he definitely doesn't come even close to taking over the show. He's mostly there as a link to the Klingon storylines and some recurring Klingon characters (yes, there will be those... and I think you've already guessed that Klingons play a bigger role in the next seasons) as well as... well, that would be a spoiler. You'll see.

Anything bad? Umm... that guy, the one who sabotaged the cloaking device, mr. Ed was it? Umm... was he the same guy who had just one line in The Search, when Seska said that she was not there to make friends and then he comes and says „I am“ and it seemed like he was taking Odo's place, but he actually dissapeared for the entire season?

Worst closet extra ever! He is! Sad excuse for a character, a secret extra to exist just as a vehicle of the plot and then discarded forever. Why did it bother me? Because of his lines, his sudden re-importance, his „Odo's my friend too!“... I was like who is that guy? How does he know Odo? Why is he even there?

Badly written sad excuse of a conflict character and in reality a closet extra. If only he would have had some other building scenes in many episodes before this episode... but he had just some line a million years ago and now is suddenly so important to be in the story. When we managed to make it without him for the entire season?

I'm not sure who you mean, but if it's the person I think you may mean, than you're in for a big surprise.