First-Timer's Impressions of Deep Space Nine

[flemm]

Enabran Tain. Yep, that's him. He wasn't just a colleague, he was his boss and mentor. Now I don't remember how much was revealed about him in which episode, so I better stop... Didn't they already make clear what his position in the Obsidian Order was?

That's clear as of The Wire in season 2.

Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast is great, for some the best two-parter in Trek. I'm not sure if I'd go there, but anyway it is very good. And the show indeed does cross the Rubicon at this stage and move toward the more epic feel of the later seasons. Alea jacta est. I think the original language title would have worked nicely as well, as it does later with Inter Arma.

As for Trek's Shakespeare fetish, it's not something I necessarily condone overall, but in this two-parter it allows the writers to tie-in the "I'm afraid the fault lies not with our stars, dear Tain, but with ourselves" line at the end of part 2, which is pretty appropriate, so I can't complain in this case.

Explorers doesn't stand up to a whole lot of scrutiny, but I love the idea, and it is a very good character episode for Sisko, as he continues his season 3 rejuvenation, and of course for Jake.

The complexity and richness of ancient Bajoran civilization is an idea with enormous potential and something I wish had been fleshed out more from the beginning. As it is we only get the occasional glimpse.

Well, without spoiling too much, I'll say Worf was done much better on DS9. On TNG he was a bumbling buffoon: a caricature. On DS9 he actually had a personality. So much so, that, in retrospect, I (as I think many do) consider him a DS9 character first.

Worf certainly ends up blending in just fine. Perhaps almost too well in a sense: he stood out more on TNG, whereas on DS9 he's just another misfit/exile with anti-social tendencies and a bad temper. Another "grumpy alien" as Vic would say

I think that if I had followed the show when it was on the air I would have been nervous, as a lot of fans evidently were, that Worf was going to take over the show and become a lead character, but that type of problem never materializes.

The big positive as far as I'm concerned is that Worf's presence really shores up the Starfleet portion of the cast, which is a little weak in the early going. The show has two regulars (Jake and Quark) that aren't involved in Starfleet matters at all, as well as two characters that do traditional Trek jobs but aren't in Starfleet (Kira and Odo), so there was plenty of room for another regular cast member wearing the uniform.

Spoiler: Worf in the later seasons

As far as negatives are concerned, at worst I guess you could say that Kira has a bit of a weak season 4 (due to Worf being first officer of the Defiant and thus in many command situations instead of Kira), but she has so many good episodes in the early seasons and starting again in season 5 that I can't see this as a major issue.

I guess if you hate Worf getting together with Dax that might be a long-term downside, but otherwise Worf's addition to the cast is handled very smoothly. He becomes a member of the ensemble and mostly a supporting character, really, other than in season 4, where he is in the forefront of a pretty high percentage of episodes, a bit like Ezri in season 7.

I'm not sure who you mean, but if it's the person I think you may mean, than you're in for a big surprise.

Indeed, I was quite shocked when Eddington, this closet extra, ended up quitting Starfleet in order to open a pizza joint on the promenade. I really didn't see that coming at the time, though in retrospect it makes perfect sense

 

[TheGodBen]

Improbable Cause
...
The Die Is Cast

It's about bloody time! You've been demanding more Odo and Dominion material for weeks and when you finally reach the point where you get both in one awesome package... you take a break.

This two-parter is a classic, and the second part marks the point where Ira Behr took over from Michael Piller. Interestingly enough, it started out as a standalone episode but they had trouble coming up with a satisfying ending so, as one of his last acts, Michael Piller advised them to extend the story with a second part. Ira saw this as an opportunity to show his intentions for the show: epic plots with massive battles happening on screen rather than being referred to (as TNG used to do). The writers also managed to tie in that loose end about the Obsidian Order fleet from Defiant, which was a masterstroke.

- It feels so weird to see only Rick Berman's name in the end executive producer credits. Improbable Cause still had Michael Piller's name in it. Now that's not a bad thing... I was just looking for something.

That irritates me because Ira Behr doesn't get his name at the end of the show until season 5 even though he was promoted to Executive Producer and head writer. When Brannon Braga and Kenneth Biller took over on Voyager their names were moved to the end of the show immediately, so why did it take over a year for the same to happen with Ira Behr?

It was about for season 3 to show Dominion anyway. These last few episodes, from 15-19, were just so filler. It's like in every late-mid season DS9 stalls a bit.

Sadly, all seasons of DS9 tend to have a rut in the middle, except for season 5. I've often wondered if DS9 would have been better with 20-22 episode seasons, but I fear we would have lost a lot of the great standalone episodes and not gotten rid of enough of the bad ones.

And that they secretly would work with Cardassians on a Final Solution while the Starfleet sleeps makes sense.

One of the interesting things about this episode is that Starfleet is perfectly willing to accept the genocide of another race so long as another empire is the one doing the dirty work. Just another one of the ways that DS9 tried to move away from the morally-upstanding Federation in TNG.

So I guess, since I know that Worf comes in season 4 (and whom I'm prepared to hate already, since I can't stand the thought of any TNG coming to DS9 and staying. It seems so patronising.

I don't think it was patronising, but it was a stunt designed to get more TNG viewers to watch DS9. It took him a while to settle into the show (a fact that the show itself addressed on several occasions) but once he finds his place he works out quite well. At least he does in my opinion. I certainly prefer DS9 Worf to TNG Worf, there's more depth to the character and he doesn't spend as much time being beaten up by the threat of the week.

that season 4 is about the Dominion dealing with the other two Alpha Quadrant rivals – Klingon Empire and Federation?

Well... the Klingons certainly become a bigger presence in season 4, but the Cardassians shouldn't be ruled out yet. The Cardassian ships lost in the Battle of the Omarion Nebula belonged to the Obsidian Order, the military fleet still numbers in the hundreds. However, the Obsidian Order's leadership was wiped out and without them the Central Command will struggle to maintain control of the civilian population. This two-parter is epic for many reasons, and one of the reasons why is because the consequences are felt for a long time.

Anything bad? Umm... that guy, the one who sabotaged the cloaking device, mr. Ed was it? Umm... was he the same guy who had just one line in The Search, when Seska said that she was not there to make friends and then he comes and says „I am“ and it seemed like he was taking Odo's place, but he actually dissapeared for the entire season?

Yup, that's Eddington from way back at the start of the season. He's a minor recurring character at this point that will have a bigger role later, when he opens that pizzeria flemm mentioned and he fights the Klingon chef from Melora. That was a great three-parter, although you could criticise it for being filler.

Explorers

Hello there!

Is that the same actress, who had a drooling thread dedicated to her and...

Because the legs are certainly familiar. What ever happened actually after the boyfriend came on board? I don't know because I went away. Anyway.

You'll want to be careful about saying things like that, you're not even allowed to make jokes about that incident according to our glorious leaders. Suffice it to say that Chase Masterson is a member of this forum and we're not allowed to treat her like other members of this forum because she played a recurring character on the show. No, it doesn't make sense, but you'd be better off not pushing your luck on this issue.

As for the character, that's Leeta, she does indeed become a recurring character. An odd thing is about to happen, she's going to have an off-screen relationship with Bashir that we'll see end later on. I'm not sure whether their relationship starts here or if it begins closer to the point where they break up, but at some point between now and season 5 she and Bashir will be an item. Just roll with it.

The drunken scene between Bashir and O'Brien was just... inspired.

It's one of my favourite moments of the show, it's one of the reasons why the O'Brien/Bashir relationship is not only the best buddy double-act in Star Trek, but also the best romance.

I have less to say about Sisko side of the episode, because I just don't know what to say. The ship was nice. Gave the father and son an excuse to talk. What else can I say?

You can comment on one of the best lines from DS9:

SISKO: It's hammock time!
JAKE: Yo.

Other than that, it's a nice father/son episode that only DS9 could do (because DS9 had the only father/son relationship). It's a very enjoyable episode.

Sisko has a beard now. Just saying.

Sorry about spoiling that.

Indeed, I was quite shocked when Eddington, this closet extra, ended up quitting Starfleet in order to open up a pizza joint on the promenade. I really didn't see that coming at the time, though in retrospect it makes perfect sense

I couldn't buy into that plot-twist, he always struck me as more of a bakery kind of guy.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Um... no. Goethe, Tolstoy, Dostoyevski,, etc. were not "derivative" of Shakespeare at all, most of them weren't even all that influenced by him (it's particularly unlikely in Tolstoy's case, as he actually disliked Shakespeare), and there are plenty of authors and a lot of other world literature that is not influenced by Shakespeare any more than it's influenced by many other authors. European literature was more influenced by classical Greek and Roman authors and Aristotles' ideas about tragedy and comedy. Then there's also the literature of Middle Ages and the Italian Renaissance (Dante, Petrarca, Bocaccio). You would make more of a case if you said that Goethe was influenced by Christopher Marlowe ("Faustus"). And Shakespeare himself was definitely derivative of many other authors - the stories of his plays were mostly reworked from other works.

What part of "perceived" did you not understand? I never said it was right, just implied it the general consensus and flow of the common consciousness.

 

[JamesKerwin]

Explorers

Is that the same actress, who had a drooling thread dedicated to her and then her boyfriend came there and was like „Yo Nerds! Wassup! Jerking off to my wife, huh! So sad! But yo nerds, you gotta ask yourself a question! Who has two thumbs and fucks that pussy every single day? This guy! So how did I find this thread? Well I google my girlfriend every single day. You would too if you're as cool as me. That's me – the man. Google me up! So nerds, gonna give me pictures of your girlfriends? No? That's what I thought. Fat chicks, huh! So sad. I understand, I was once like you. Ha! Who am I kidding! I am always awesome! So yeah, suck it up bitches!“

Funny, I don't remember saying that at all. Chase and I are both members of this board and are entitled to be spared the gross sexual innuendo. That thread was nice, until people starting making crass comments about Chase and a couple people started insulting her. She saw it, asked them to stop, but no one apologized. She flagged the posts and the mods did nothing, at least not for a while. There was no "Googling" involved. Finally I told them to either post pics of their own girlfriends or shut up, and they did. I may have bent the rules slightly myself in the process, but I bet you'd have done the same thing if people were insulting your girlfriend. Although I note that the mods didn't erase the perverted stuff or the insults -- just locked the threads, so the flame posts are still visible.

But I said none of the crude childish sexual nonsense you're attributing to me. So why are the mods allowing sexual harassment directed at other members like this?

Classy.

 

[flemm]

Sadly, all seasons of DS9 tend to have a rut in the middle, except for season 5. I've often wondered if DS9 would have been better with 20-22 episode seasons, but I fear we would have lost a lot of the great standalone episodes and not gotten rid of enough of the bad ones.

I don't see that season 4 has a significant lull, though for the other seasons I would tend to agree. Seasons 4 and 5 are the most consistent in that there never feels like there is filler for any extended period.

Doubtless if DS9 were being made in the modern era of television there would be fewer episodes, fewer seasons, and a tighter focus overall. It might make for a more consistent show with fewer holes and low points, but I'm not sure I would like it as much. As it is, I enjoy DS9 for the same reason I like its characters and any good character: as much for its flaws as for its strengths.

Even the "we must lay one stinking rotten egg of an episode every season, no matter how good the rest of it is" tradition is quite endearing. Ok, not really

Funny, I don't remember saying that at all. Chase and I are both members of this board and are entitled to be spared the gross sexual innuendo. That thread was nice, until people starting making crass comments about Chase and a couple people started insulting her. She saw it, asked them to stop, but no one apologized. She flagged the posts and the mods did nothing. There was no "Googling" involved. Finally I told them to either post pics of their own girlfriends or shut up, and they did. You'd have done the same thing if people were insulting your girlfriend.

There was none of the crude childish sexual nonsense you're attributing to me. But I see, once again, the mods are allowing this type of sexual harassment directed at other members. Classy.

I think that was mostly a misguided attempt at humor on the part of Jimmy Bob. I hope the mods will leave this thread open, however, since it has been enjoyable. Perhaps we can just delete the tasteless part of the post and move on.

Folks, this is getting lame (actually it's been lame for a while). Enough with the innuendo regarding Chase, and let's let the Ezri's chest and Worf's penis threads die too while we're at it. Or just blow them up. They don't have the redeeming qualities that Jimmy Bob's thread possesses.

 

[TheGodBen]

Funny, I don't remember saying that at all.

Ah, that's Jimmy Bob's weird and moderately offensive sense of humour. The first time I encountered him he called me an idiot and accused me of taking pleasure from genocide, but once I realised that that was his way I came to accept him and now I want to have his babies.

*looks down and thinks for a second*

Wait, no, I want him to have my babies. That would be much less painful.

Anyway, that's Jimmy Bob's awesome voice, the voice that he gives to people that he thinks are cool. I'm not saying that he was right to do it, but his intention was not to cause offence. I think. To be honest, I have no idea what he's saying half the time. He's quite the enigma, it's one of the reasons why I find him so intoxicating.

I don't see that season 4 has a significant lull, though for the other seasons I would tend to agree. Seasons 4 and 5 are the most consistent in that there never feels like there is filler for any extended period.

Hmm, I've just checked an episode list and you're right, there is no extended rut in season 4, I don't know why I thought there was.

Spoiler: Season 4

Then again, some people consider season 4 itself to be filler material due to the detour involving the Klingons, although I'm not among them.

Even the "we must lay one stinking rotten egg of an episode every season, no matter how good the rest of it is" tradition is quite endearing. Ok, not really

But that's what made DS9 so unique! It's the only way that you can tell DS9 and Babylon 5 apart.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Say what you will about the Trek writers' Shakespeare obsession, I still find it less irritating than their Moby Dick fetish.

Explorers is basically just a bunch of stuff, but it's nice. This is where the Bashir-O'Brien friendship really starts and they have a great scene. But would an Irishman really sing Jerusalem? Maybe TheGodBen can tell us?

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Explorers

Hello there!

Is that the same actress, who had a drooling thread dedicated to her and then her boyfriend came there and was like „Yo Nerds! Wassup! Jerking off to my wife, huh! So sad! But yo nerds, you gotta ask yourself a question! Who has two thumbs and fucks that pussy every single day? This guy! So how did I find this thread? Well I google my girlfriend every single day. You would too if you're as cool as me. That's me – the man. Google me up! So nerds, gonna give me pictures of your girlfriends? No? That's what I thought. Fat chicks, huh! So sad. I understand, I was once like you. Ha! Who am I kidding! I am always awesome! So yeah, suck it up bitches!“

Because the legs are certainly familiar. What ever happened actually after the boyfriend came on board? I don't know because I went away. Anyway.

And you have a Warning for Trolling. A warning which has already led to a temp ban and which I wouldn't doubt in the slightest will become a permanent ban.

Nice job.

What part of "We aren't kidding." didn't you understand?

Unbelievable.

 

[DevilEyes]

^ Oh, for crying out loud.

Did you actually read any of his thread (or any of his other threads) at any point, apart from that post? A simple warning could have been enough for someone who obviously just made a one-off ill-advised joke and is probably not very familiar with the politics of the forum, since he probably comes just to post the new reviews and read his thread - and possibly skim over the other stuff. I see no reason to treat him as a troll, there are more than enough of those and he obviously isn't one.

This is a wonderful idea, permanently ban a poster who writes interesting reviews about his first time viewing of DS9 that everyone loves to read, and put a stop to the thread that many people here are always looking forward to reading, while letting obvious troll threads run on forever so people could debate whether Ezri Dax is flat-chested or not.

Obviously you can do whatever you want as mods, but I think I'm allowed to say what I think about it. Incidentally, if I asked for posters to be banned any time I had my previous posts misrepresented and misquoted (and NOT in jest), let's say that at least one poster we all know would have been permanently banned a long, long time ago.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Explorers

Is that the same actress, who had a drooling thread dedicated to her and then her boyfriend came there and was like „Yo Nerds! Wassup! Jerking off to my wife, huh! So sad! But yo nerds, you gotta ask yourself a question! Who has two thumbs and fucks that pussy every single day? This guy! So how did I find this thread? Well I google my girlfriend every single day. You would too if you're as cool as me. That's me – the man. Google me up! So nerds, gonna give me pictures of your girlfriends? No? That's what I thought. Fat chicks, huh! So sad. I understand, I was once like you. Ha! Who am I kidding! I am always awesome! So yeah, suck it up bitches!“

Funny, I don't remember saying that at all. Chase and I are both members of this board and are entitled to be spared the gross sexual innuendo. That thread was nice, until people starting making crass comments about Chase and a couple people started insulting her. She saw it, asked them to stop, but no one apologized. She flagged the posts and the mods did nothing, at least not for a while. There was no "Googling" involved. Finally I told them to either post pics of their own girlfriends or shut up, and they did. I may have bent the rules slightly myself in the process, but I bet you'd have done the same thing if people were insulting your girlfriend. Although I note that the mods didn't erase the perverted stuff or the insults -- just locked the threads, so the flame posts are still visible.

But I said none of the crude childish sexual nonsense you're attributing to me. So why are the mods allowing sexual harassment directed at other members like this?

Classy.

Mr Kerwin,

Please accept my deepest apologies for the behavior of some of the 'class acts' ( ) around here. Rest assured that this sort of behavior will NOT be tolerated on this board and both the board owner and I are committed to keeping this sort of vulgarity off of TrekBBS.

In fact, most of us here are quite honored that you and Chase take the time to frequent this board. The vast majority of the fans here are huge DS9 enthusiasts and are embarrassed by the actions of guys like this.

Please do not let it color your impression of DS9 fandom. I have been the mod of this forum for over 8 years, and I can assure you that the vast majority of posters here over the years have every kind of respect for Chase and the other DS9 actors. They worked very hard to produce a show that we all still enjoy, and deserve our deepest appreciation for that effort. Please pass that sentiment along to Chase as I believe it to be the sentiment of the vast majority of the participants here.

As for my not doing anything immediately, when Chase hit the notify mods on the earlier posts, you have to understand that I am only one person and that I am more than likely in a different time zone than you are, have different RL obligations, etc. I do, however, deal with things as quickly as possible, and did, in fact, deal with those notify mods as soon as I was able. And I will continue to do so, rest assured. If you see something untoward, just hit that notify mod button and I PROMISE, it will be addressed. Also, please know that this issue has been discussed at length in the staff-only forum and that the staff of this board, up to the highest levels, is committed to making you and Chase comfortable here.

In truth, this whole situation is quite bizarre for me, because in all of my 8 years as a mod in here at TrekBBS, NEVER have I asked this group in the DS9 forum to do something when I didn't receive instant, 100% cooperation. This forum has always been KNOWN, in fact, for being one of the most well-behaved on this board.

Seems that times are changing on that bit, and it is unfortunate. But hopefully things in this forum will return to their usual much more polite selves in short order.

Thanks for your continued patience with this matter as I deal with this issue.

PKTrekGirl

PS. Forgot about this until now, but Mr, Kerwin, the reason why those original posts were not edited by me or other staff is because on this board, we have a general policy of 'preserving the evidence' so to speak. Please note that we pointed out the impropriety of the posts, and locked the threads so that no further commentary could be made. But because we have a sort of system of 'due process' on this board, we generally preserve the offending posts (unless it is outright porn, etc) for discussion purposes at a later date, in case we are forced to consider banning an individual and would like specific instances of offense to review before we take that unfortunate measure of last resort with a poster. If you have any questions about this policy, please PM T'Bonz about it. Of course, you are also welcome to PM me about any of this, if you like. But Bonz is the ultimate decision maker and has been very involved in the discussion of this issue.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^ Oh, for crying out loud.

Did you actually read any of his thread (or any of his other threads) at any point, apart from that post? A simple warning could have been enough for someone who obviously just made a one-off ill-advised joke and is probably not very familiar with the politics of the forum, since he probably comes just to post the new reviews and read his thread - and possibly skim over the other stuff. I see no reason to treat him as a troll, there are more than enough of those and he obviously isn't one.

What he got from me was, in fact, a 'simple warning'. As moderator, that is all I have the power to GIVE, in fact. Unfortunately for him, due to OTHER warnings he must have received on other parts of this board, my 'simple warning' kicked him into ban status automatically.

Needless to say, the fact that my warning kicked him into ban status leads me to believe that he is NOT, in fact, the model citizen you make him out to be. But we shall see, when I actually have time to go and look at his other infractions, given by other mods.

Additionally, the notify mod, as promised in my previous remarks in other threads, is getting a LOT of attention in the BR. It is quite obvious that the guy read the other closed threads on the issue of how we are to treat Chase, because he referenced them directly. So not only did he choose to blatantly ignore both myself AND Bonz, he actually stepped up the game. And it is NEVER as good idea to bait Bonz.

 

[Guartho]

In truth, this whole situation is quite bizarre for me, because in all of my 8 years as a mod in here at TrekBBS, NEVER have I asked this group in the DS9 forum to do something when I didn't receive instant, 100% cooperation. This forum has always been KNOWN, in fact, for being one of the most well-behaved on this board.

Well to be fair, Chase Masterson was and is a very attractive woman in body and spirit. Going around saying so all the time is a hard habit to break. Saying so in the usual locker-room style should be an easy enough habit to break of course.

Suffice it to say that Chase Masterson is a member of this forum and we're not allowed to treat her like other members of this forum because she played a recurring character on the show. No, it doesn't make sense, but you'd be better off not pushing your luck on this issue.

It does make sense if you keep in mind the complete inversion of the normal reality that we have in this particular situation.

While it's true that we can make comments on the attractiveness of other posters' physical appearances and we are to treat Chase as another poster, every other poster gets to choose whether or not we see their appearances in the first place.

Chase doesn't get to decide whether or not we get to see what she looks like in a dabo girl outfit. It's out there. We regular posters have direct control over our dabo-girl-outfit-pictures. The only direct control she has would be to not participate in TrekBBS, and I'm sure we don't want that.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^ Excellent point, Guartho. You pointed out a very important difference there, and it is important to keep in mind.

I won't say anything else - I just ask everyone to read your post and think about it.

 

[T'Bonz]

You know, when I come into a forum and tell people to stop and they don't, well, I don't have the reputation of the Romulan for nothing.

I've tossed two posters. Anyone else who wants the Romulan boot on his or her ass, by all means make my day.

Kerwin:

Although I note that the mods didn't erase the perverted stuff or the insults -- just locked the threads, so the flame posts are still visible.

We don't erase stuff unless it's porn or such.

But I said none of the crude childish sexual nonsense you're attributing to me. So why are the mods allowing sexual harassment directed at other members like this?

Several items:

1. We don't live on here. When we are notified, we act, as soon as we come on and see what is going on.

2. Lighten up. Going online and fighting like you do just encourages the trolls. Don't react to them. Do what I said and mod notify, bearing in mind point 1.

3. Chase dresses sexily (not a criticism, but a fact.) For the most part, that will get raves, but that will also attract negative attention. Learn to deal with it. It comes with the territory. Instead of concentrating on the 10% who say bad things, enjoy the 90%. There is no way, in real life, or online, that one can be insulated from that.

I'll be blunt. If I'm a woman and I show my cleavage (and being a woman, I do at times ) for all the good comments, some pinheads are going to say stupid stuff. I shrug it off. IF I can't handle it, I put on a shirt with a higher collar. (I can handle it. What the fuck do I care what some stranger says? )

Unless you stuff Chase in a burka, you'll run into this. Let it go and don't sweat the small stuff. If people go too far out-of-line, like Mr. In-My-Face, they'll be reined back in.

There is no way that anyone can post a picture online and get 100% affirmation. People *can* criticize, this isn't a cheerleading forum, and one can hope that they're be gentle but that is not a given and if anyone, male or female, posts his or her mug, he/she takes the chance of criticism.

If one is only looking for affirmation, stick to a private website and disable comments.

To all:

Having said that, common courtesy would be nice. Particularly when I'm in a bad mood from dealing with this. A little common sense on all sides could have avoided this clusterfuck.

Now - this IS done, right folks? Any whining may be directed to my PM box.

And it is NEVER as good idea to bait Bonz.

No, it isn't.

 

[flemm]

Well, that sucks.

A moment of silence for our fallen comrades...








... Farewell, and may you be free to flood again in that great forum in the sky. It was an honor trolling with you, though the time was short. Your avatar was strong in life. Its spirit will find the halls of its fathers. Your account may decay, but your memory will live on. Ashes to ashes, pixels to pixels

 

[JamesKerwin]

Well, all I can say is that I've been with Chase a very long time, and I appreciate your sentiment, but I really don't need any advice on how to deal with people staring at her, lightening up, higher collars, "learning to deal with it," etc. I don't regulate Chase or what she wears; and frankly I could care less what people say or think. I think you have extrapolated this sentiment from someone else, maybe, and attributed it to me ("Going online and fighting like you do..."), but please be assured that it is not my sentiment. They can stare at her cleavage all they want, and like it or dislike it. I don't sweat the small stuff; frankly I don't have the time.

Chase and I have asked for one, and only one, thing. That the rules of this board -- which prevent people from flaming other members or making blatant sexual comments about them (not cleavage, but stuff like "I want her to sit on my face," discussion of her genitalia, etc.) -- apply to us equally. That's all. No more, no less.

Now, it appears that you guys have decided among yourselves to take that a step further, and restrict all ogling of Chase, discussion of her appearance, etc. for fear that it MIGHT lead to something bad. Obviously that is not what Chase asked for. This is a free country and people can say what they like as long as they follow the board's rules.

So Chase's simple request -- that board users have to follow the same rules with her that they would for anyone -- has been turned into a "special circumstance" in which people can barely discuss her appearance at all. Obviously, as a person in charge, that is your decision. But you seem to be implying that _I_ somehow wanted this, or that Chase wanted this, and I'm sorry but that couldn't be further from the truth. I am more than used to people making comments about Chase, good or bad. So is she. Trust me on this. We have to deal with haters every. Single. Day. It comes with the territory. And we are more than used to either ignoring them or responding to them with humor that puts them in their place (that doesn't make it a "fight," it's a normal response to defend someone you love). But I would never say that people cannot look at her or have their own opinions.

In conclusion, I don't care what people say about Chase or me or anyone, as long as they don't violate the long-standing board rules that apply to everyone. If a poster crosses the line, he should be warned or locked or blocked or whatever it is you guys do. Beyond that, Chase (nor I) didn't ask for any special treatment.

 

[DevilEyes]

Well, that sucks.

A moment of silence for our fallen comrades...








... Farewell, and may you be free to flood again in that great forum in the sky. It was an honor trolling with you, though the time was short. Your avatar was strong in life. Its spirit will find the halls of its fathers. Your account may decay, but your memory will live on. Ashes to ashes, pixels to pixels

The eulogy is a little premature, from what I understood it's a temporary thing, two days in jail... although death penalty threats have been made.

 

[flemm]

Well, that sucks.

A moment of silence for our fallen comrades...








... Farewell, and may you be free to flood again in that great forum in the sky. It was an honor trolling with you, though the time was short. Your avatar was strong in life. Its spirit will find the halls of its fathers. Your account may decay, but your memory will live on. Ashes to ashes, pixels to pixels

The eulogy is a little premature, from what I understood it's a temporary thing, two days in jail... although death penalty threats have been made.

How fortunate that it was a facetious eulogy!

(Though also intended to have the subtext that it would be nice if these posters remained with us, in case the harshest of measures are being pondered. Or already enacted. Honestly I couldn't really tell, so I decided to go with something I thought would be appropriate no matter the circumstance and perhaps mildly amusing to some or, failing that, at least to myself )

 

[T'Bonz]

Well, all I can say is that I've been with Chase a very long time, and I appreciate your sentiment, but I really don't need any advice on how to deal with people staring at her, lightening up, higher collars, "learning to deal with it," etc. I don't regulate Chase or what she wears; and frankly I could care less what people say or think.

Obviously the comments bothered you. Had they not, you would not have posted what you did in response (which I do understand) but it was quite clear that you didn't like it. I know how people act on the 'net and was trying to give advice to make things easier in the future.

I think you have extrapolated this sentiment from someone else, maybe, and attributed it to me ("Going online and fighting like you do..."), but please be assured that it is not my sentiment. They can stare at her cleavage all they want, and like it or dislike it. I don't sweat the small stuff; frankly I don't have the time.

My statement was based on this of yours, which wasn't exactly kosher: "Right... she was SO ready to date you, but you're right, you guys are way out of her league.

Mind posting pics of yourselves and your "girlfriends" so Chase and I can evaluate your physical appearances? (Blow up dolls don't count.) "

The second paragraph, technically by our rules, is trolling. Given what had happened, we let it go and didn't warn for that, understanding the context and hoping that after we spoke, things would settle down.

Chase and I have asked for one, and only one, thing. That the rules of this board -- which prevent people from flaming other members or making blatant sexual comments about them (not cleavage, but stuff like "I want her to sit on my face," discussion of her genitalia, etc.) -- apply to us equally. That's all. No more, no less.

The original poster's statement, while extremely distasteful (to me at least) is *not* technically against the rules. I can't just throw out warnings for the hell of it. Had he persisted after everyone was told to settle (like the ones did today), THEN I have grounds to act and I did.

I've just reread the thread and that was the only comment that was over the line and we dealt with it.

Now, it appears that you guys have decided among yourselves to take that a step further, and restrict all ogling of Chase, discussion of her appearance, etc. for fear that it MIGHT lead to something bad. Obviously that is not what Chase asked for. This is a free country and people can say what they like as long as they follow the board's rules.

Well, the problem is, I can't force the posters to say only complimentary things and given the reaction to this, I've erred on the side of caution. No one in the thread said anything technically against the rules, you know? For your reference, here are the rules: http://www.trekbbs.com/faq.php in case you need to quote from them in responding to this.

The closest I can see to any rule infraction: "In order to protect those posters who are minors, you cannot post NC-17 or R-Rated material anywhere on the BBS, or link to such material." That really doesn't fit, it's a bit of a stretch. Or - the post might be deemed trolling, but trolling implies trying to get someone's goat and the poster who posted the sentiment wasn't doing it to piss off Chase.

So Chase's simple request -- that board users have to follow the same rules with her that they would for anyone -- has been turned into a "special circumstance" in which people can barely discuss her appearance at all. Obviously, as a person in charge, that is your decision. But you seem to be implying that _I_ somehow wanted this, or that Chase wanted this, and I'm sorry but that couldn't be further from the truth. I am more than used to people making comments about Chase, good or bad. So is she. Trust me on this. We have to deal with haters every. Single. Day. It comes with the territory. And we are more than used to either ignoring them or responding to them with humor that puts them in their place (that doesn't make it a "fight," it's a normal response to defend someone you love). But I would never say that people cannot look at her or have their own opinions.

But you cannot have it both ways, and that is what I would face. If they post as if they would for anyone else (we get "hot or not" threads in other forums), minus the one offender, given what just happened, I would anticipate problems. I don't know if only the one poster was the problem, or if there were problems with others in the thread, it seems like both to me. So the logical action was to be cautious.

In conclusion, I don't care what people say about Chase or me or anyone, as long as they don't violate the long-standing board rules that apply to everyone. If a poster crosses the line, he should be warned or locked or blocked or whatever it is you guys do. Beyond that, Chase (nor I) didn't ask for any special treatment.

Again, WHICH RULE? Which rule was broken? I'm not being a smartass, but I'm not seeing it.

I know no one asked us for special treatment and I accuse no one of that. I'm simply trying to deal with the fact that someone was here who was made to feel uncomfortable by comments and that is unacceptable. My answer to anyone would be to not be so vulgar. However, I don't know if ONLY the vulgar statement was offensive or some of the negative comments and these statements, one from you, one from her lead me to think that it wasn't just the one very rude comment:

"Mind posting pics of yourselves and your "girlfriends" so Chase and I can evaluate your physical appearances? (Blow up dolls don't count.)"

"Geeez, thanks for all the attention.

Uh, do any of you look exactly like you did 10 years ago?

Give it a rest, guys."

The clear meaning to me of both statements is "I don't like the negative comments." This statement by a poster "As hot as she is now, she was still hotter in the nineties." appears to be what tripped what Chase said.

We can agree that the one statement was way over the line, but it appeared to me that some of the other statements also were taken in a negative manner and that is why I felt it would be wiser to avoid a "hot or not" thread.

Was that wrong? Because in those threads, you do run the risk of uncomplimentary responses (not counting the bad post which we all agree was over the line).

 

[flemm]

This is incredibly complicated