Personally, I'm not interested in changing your opinion. I'm trying to understand your opinion better. Which means asking questions and even challenging you on your ideas. Which I can do here, because it's not your blog, it's a discussion board.
Farscape or Babylon 5?
- Thread starter kirk55555
- Start date
Personally, I'm not interested in changing your opinion. I'm trying to understand your opinion better. Which means asking questions and even challenging you on your ideas. Which I can do here, because it's not your blog, it's a discussion board.
I'm fine with that, its just when it takes up pages and pages and I've pretty much said everything I can when it gets to me. Discussion is fine, but it gets to the point where everything has been said about a certain topic, like the media, but it still goes on probably longer than it needs to. That post of mine was pretty much just about the media discussion. I've said what I can say, we're just beating a dead horse at this point, lets move along (to the next thing I post that causes a big discussion
). I didn't mean for it to be taken as no one should as questions or discuss things. Anyway, now to the episode I watched.No Surrender, No Retreat - I like Sheridan's proactive attitude. Its a good thing they decided to start going on the offensive now, Proxima wasn't going to last much longer. Its no surprise that the earth ships who massacured civilians without hesitation are commanded by new people lkoyal to Clark. Londo and G'Kar's scenes this episode were great, with Londo talking about whats happened to them and the fact that supporting Sheridan/B5 is one thing they have in common now. As a huge Scrubs fan I was shocked to see Bob Kelso in command of an Earth military ship
The fight was done well. I'm glad that some of the ships backed down during the fight. Its cool that two ships saw the light and signed up with Sheridan, and another decided to stay and protect Proxima. My faith in the non B5 humans in the B5 universe is slightly restored 
I wonder if the ground forces that were mentioned when the resistance was talking to Marcus also stopped after the attack was over, or if they decided to keep going even without the blockade (maybe going underground themselves, like the anti-seridan guys on B5). Overall, this was a great episode. It was nice to see Sheridan confronting EarthGov in a more proactive way.
So, as you're starting to see, there are people who don't believe the Propaganda or at least question it, and will turn if given a chance. Problem is, those on Earth who are like-minded don't have an opportunity to band together, and not appearing to be toeing the Government line is dangerous, even for civilians. This is part of what we have been trying to hint at, without spoiling it for you. Sheridan and the AOL are giving folks a chance to band together in resistance
Post deleted.
Not worth talking about anymore...
Not worth talking about anymore...
I got through 8 episodes in the last 2 days (I was excited to finish Season 4 and begin 5). Its a very big post, sorry
Exercise of Vital Powers - Brainwashed garibaldi was starting to really get on my nerves at this point, but it didn't really become a problem, since he gets fixed before he becomes more than an annoyance. The frozen telepath was pretty strong, physically. He almost killed Franklin with one hand. I figured that the cure for the telepath disease came from the group that invented the disease, and I was proven right later. The Garibaldi stuff in this episode wasn't very entertaining. This wasn't a great episode.
The Face of the Enemy - I wondered what was stopping a Clark loyal ship from pretending to defect while watching this episode, and while it doesn't become a big thing we do learn later that it did happen. Sheridan was an idiot to go to Mars. Garibaldi practiaclly had "traitor" written on his face. The Mars resistance leader is an ass. The telepathic bloodhounds thing isn't surprising. The sheridan tranq fight was kind of annoying. I figured garibaldi's boss had created the virus. It was interesting to learn all that happened to Garibaldi. Ivanova was kind of crazy, though. Shoot Garibaldi on sight? Who is she, President Clark? It never became an issue, but still. Overall, this was a decent episode, and we finally have Garibaldi back to normal.
Intersections in Real Time - I don't have much to say about this episode. Its slightly worse then the last torture episode, and it didn't have the novelty of learning that the vorlons used Jack the Ripper as an agent. This whole episode was one big cliche of the hero getting tortured but not breaking. It was tedious, and forgettable.
Between the Darkness and The Light - This episode was pretty good. I wish this episode hadn't started out with a tedious torture scene to remind me of the last episode, but thats the only bad part of this episode. At this point, I am beyond tired of the Mars resistance leader. I get where she's coming from, but I wish Franklin or Lyta had shot her. It was nice to see the League of Non-Aligned Worlds act grateful and actually work together. It was cool to see Garibaldi and franklin in Earth Force uniforms again after so long. Sheridan was pretty screwed up from being interrogated.The earth/Shadow hybrid ships were freaky. Ivanova's pre battle speech was interesting. She got messed up pretty badly. The upcoming battle is going to be big.
Endgame - This was a very good episode. Opening a jump point in the mars atmosphere was cool. The frozen telepaths came in handy. I wonder if they all died, it wasn't really mentioned in this or the episodes after. The alien healing machine turned out to be pretty important. I never would have figured that it would be used so much and so long after it was introduced. Sheridan's speech to Earth was great. I figured Clark would kill himself, although I didn't guess he would try to take the Earth with him. It really shows what kind of power mad guy he was. Still, why were the planetary defense systems even capable of targeting the earth? you'd think they'd have some failsafes to prevent even a crazy dictator from doing that. It was nice to see the non-propaganda ISN. After the alien device was mentioned, I figured Marcus would give up his life for Ivanova. I liked Marcus. I wasn't sure of him at first, but he became a very good character. This was an great episode.
Rising Star - Ivanova/Franklin's scene at the beginning after he returned to see that Marcus had sacrificed himself for Ivanova was great. Londo's talk about G'Kar's..."endurance" problem was hilarious. I guess Londo will be emperor soon. I hope he doesn't become puppet Londo too quickly. Bester's talk with Sheridan went about as I expected it would. I had guessed that Sheridan wouldn't want to risk using bester's mistress in his telepath attack. I guessed he'd want to, but Bester would have probably gotten revenge, and that wouldn't have been good. The new Earth President is a worm. Even people who were against Clark in the government are borderline evil. I like how Garibaldi went about reccuing his love interest, with the cartoon like exploding box. I like the idea of the new alliance, and Sheridan becoming president was awesome (and kind of a "screw you" to Earth Force and the earth president). I'm glad Earth decided to join. G'kar and Londo's scene at the end was great, with G'kar's eye just happening to show up in a very interesting place (I didn't think they established that his eye would work outside his head just for a joke later, but it was funny). Overall, this was an awesome episode. If only the season had ended here 
The Deconstruction of Falling Stars - I hated 95% of this episode. The only good part was the very beginning, with Londo talking about how marriages in his culture are somber affairs (and after seeing his wives earlier, I get why he thinks that)
The rest of this episode generally made me want to jump off a cliff, especially after the 500 year mark. I don't want to post a huge rant, so here's what I thought of the various sections.
100+ Annoying, boring, but delen was ok Seeing the near future (from the normal show timeline) clip of Garibaldi held hostage by telepaths ticked me off.
500+ More propaganda, and even worse then ISN (Good facts?) Shoot me now.
Also, we know know B5 gets destroyed around 2282 (480 years before this segment of the episode). Thats just great.
1000+ Screw JMS. They revert earth to pre-spaceflight and turn the B5 crew into myths/religious features? This seriously makes the future Londo stuff seem like a good idea. I'm oficially pretending this didn't happen.
I haven't seen something this stupid in a long time. I could spend an hour ranting about how horrible this is.
1,000,000+ Humans = Vorlons. Also, I'm pretty sure the sun has billions of years, not a million, before it goes nova
Overall this was a horrible episode. I think this was actually worse than Illusion of Truth, and beats it as the worst B5 episode so far.
No Compromises - The new theme song isn't very good. The music especially sucks. Lochley does not make a good first impression. She seems like a by the book, stuck up idiot (and I'm 90% sure she was a Clark supporter). My first impression is that this is going to be a long season with this idiot commanding B5. I'm keeping an open mind about her, thats just my first impression. Still, she spent this whole episode being a jackass who needed to be put in her place (and garibaldi and Sheridan both screwed with her pretty well) and she's not off to a good start. Bryon doesn't seem very interesting. I've grown tired of vague, mysterious characters. Still, he definately has room to grow if he makes more appearances. since he's on the DVd cover, I'm assuming I'll be seeing more of him. I liked G'Kar's reaction to being the one to write the oath/declaration of principles for the new Alliance. The telepath group could go either way at this point. They had better not be the ones who were holding Garibaldi in the near future clip in the last episode. I really hope the "telepath war" doesn't become a thing in the show (just let it be an event that takes place after the show). Sheridan always seems to have people wanting to kill him. This one is a crazy guy with an agenda. It was cool to see what was under the mask of the insect alien. I really wanted to see Lochley get taken down a peg after insulting Garibaldi, and I really like how he beat her in the end. The assassain's plan was pretty good. This may be harsh, but I'm glad the mute kid won't be a recurring thing. I like how G'Kar, after spending so much time on the oath, just got fed up with the interruptions
G'Kar: Do you want to be president?
Sheridan: Yes
G'Kar: Put your hand on the book and say "I do".
Sheridan: I do
G'kar: Fine, done.
It was a hilarious scene. This was a very good episode, although I'm not sure I'll like Lochley. She was an unlikeable jackass this episode, I hope she gets better.
Also, I have a question. I know there is an in universe reason why G'Kar has mismatching eyes (they needed to wait before adjusting the implant to make it match his real eye) but was there a real life reason? Maybe G'kar's actor couldn't have a fake eye lens on that eye for some reason? Its not a big deal, I'm just wondering.
Overall, Season 4 was pretty good. It had the 2 worst episodes I've seen in B5 so far, and a few annoying plot points, but overall it was good. Season 5 is starting off ok, although Lochley will need an attitude adjustment to be an entertaining character and not just an annoying ass.
Exercise of Vital Powers - Brainwashed garibaldi was starting to really get on my nerves at this point, but it didn't really become a problem, since he gets fixed before he becomes more than an annoyance. The frozen telepath was pretty strong, physically. He almost killed Franklin with one hand. I figured that the cure for the telepath disease came from the group that invented the disease, and I was proven right later. The Garibaldi stuff in this episode wasn't very entertaining. This wasn't a great episode.
The Face of the Enemy - I wondered what was stopping a Clark loyal ship from pretending to defect while watching this episode, and while it doesn't become a big thing we do learn later that it did happen. Sheridan was an idiot to go to Mars. Garibaldi practiaclly had "traitor" written on his face. The Mars resistance leader is an ass. The telepathic bloodhounds thing isn't surprising. The sheridan tranq fight was kind of annoying. I figured garibaldi's boss had created the virus. It was interesting to learn all that happened to Garibaldi. Ivanova was kind of crazy, though. Shoot Garibaldi on sight? Who is she, President Clark? It never became an issue, but still. Overall, this was a decent episode, and we finally have Garibaldi back to normal.
Intersections in Real Time - I don't have much to say about this episode. Its slightly worse then the last torture episode, and it didn't have the novelty of learning that the vorlons used Jack the Ripper as an agent. This whole episode was one big cliche of the hero getting tortured but not breaking. It was tedious, and forgettable.
Between the Darkness and The Light - This episode was pretty good. I wish this episode hadn't started out with a tedious torture scene to remind me of the last episode, but thats the only bad part of this episode. At this point, I am beyond tired of the Mars resistance leader. I get where she's coming from, but I wish Franklin or Lyta had shot her. It was nice to see the League of Non-Aligned Worlds act grateful and actually work together. It was cool to see Garibaldi and franklin in Earth Force uniforms again after so long. Sheridan was pretty screwed up from being interrogated.The earth/Shadow hybrid ships were freaky. Ivanova's pre battle speech was interesting. She got messed up pretty badly. The upcoming battle is going to be big.
Endgame - This was a very good episode. Opening a jump point in the mars atmosphere was cool. The frozen telepaths came in handy. I wonder if they all died, it wasn't really mentioned in this or the episodes after. The alien healing machine turned out to be pretty important. I never would have figured that it would be used so much and so long after it was introduced. Sheridan's speech to Earth was great. I figured Clark would kill himself, although I didn't guess he would try to take the Earth with him. It really shows what kind of power mad guy he was. Still, why were the planetary defense systems even capable of targeting the earth? you'd think they'd have some failsafes to prevent even a crazy dictator from doing that. It was nice to see the non-propaganda ISN. After the alien device was mentioned, I figured Marcus would give up his life for Ivanova. I liked Marcus. I wasn't sure of him at first, but he became a very good character. This was an great episode.
Rising Star - Ivanova/Franklin's scene at the beginning after he returned to see that Marcus had sacrificed himself for Ivanova was great. Londo's talk about G'Kar's..."endurance" problem was hilarious. I guess Londo will be emperor soon. I hope he doesn't become puppet Londo too quickly. Bester's talk with Sheridan went about as I expected it would. I had guessed that Sheridan wouldn't want to risk using bester's mistress in his telepath attack. I guessed he'd want to, but Bester would have probably gotten revenge, and that wouldn't have been good. The new Earth President is a worm. Even people who were against Clark in the government are borderline evil. I like how Garibaldi went about reccuing his love interest, with the cartoon like exploding box
. I like the idea of the new alliance, and Sheridan becoming president was awesome (and kind of a "screw you" to Earth Force and the earth president). I'm glad Earth decided to join. G'kar and Londo's scene at the end was great, with G'kar's eye just happening to show up in a very interesting place (I didn't think they established that his eye would work outside his head just for a joke later, but it was funny). Overall, this was an awesome episode. If only the season had ended here The Deconstruction of Falling Stars - I hated 95% of this episode. The only good part was the very beginning, with Londo talking about how marriages in his culture are somber affairs (and after seeing his wives earlier, I get why he thinks that)
The rest of this episode generally made me want to jump off a cliff, especially after the 500 year mark. I don't want to post a huge rant, so here's what I thought of the various sections.100+ Annoying, boring, but delen was ok
Seeing the near future (from the normal show timeline) clip of Garibaldi held hostage by telepaths ticked me off.500+ More propaganda, and even worse then ISN (Good facts?) Shoot me now.
Also, we know know B5 gets destroyed around 2282 (480 years before this segment of the episode). Thats just great. 1000+ Screw JMS. They revert earth to pre-spaceflight and turn the B5 crew into myths/religious features? This seriously makes the future Londo stuff seem like a good idea. I'm oficially pretending this didn't happen.
I haven't seen something this stupid in a long time. I could spend an hour ranting about how horrible this is. 1,000,000+ Humans = Vorlons. Also, I'm pretty sure the sun has billions of years, not a million, before it goes nova
Overall this was a horrible episode. I think this was actually worse than Illusion of Truth, and beats it as the worst B5 episode so far.
No Compromises - The new theme song isn't very good. The music especially sucks. Lochley does not make a good first impression. She seems like a by the book, stuck up idiot (and I'm 90% sure she was a Clark supporter). My first impression is that this is going to be a long season with this idiot commanding B5. I'm keeping an open mind about her, thats just my first impression. Still, she spent this whole episode being a jackass who needed to be put in her place (and garibaldi and Sheridan both screwed with her pretty well) and she's not off to a good start. Bryon doesn't seem very interesting. I've grown tired of vague, mysterious characters. Still, he definately has room to grow if he makes more appearances. since he's on the DVd cover, I'm assuming I'll be seeing more of him. I liked G'Kar's reaction to being the one to write the oath/declaration of principles for the new Alliance. The telepath group could go either way at this point. They had better not be the ones who were holding Garibaldi in the near future clip in the last episode. I really hope the "telepath war" doesn't become a thing in the show (just let it be an event that takes place after the show). Sheridan always seems to have people wanting to kill him. This one is a crazy guy with an agenda. It was cool to see what was under the mask of the insect alien. I really wanted to see Lochley get taken down a peg after insulting Garibaldi, and I really like how he beat her in the end. The assassain's plan was pretty good. This may be harsh, but I'm glad the mute kid won't be a recurring thing. I like how G'Kar, after spending so much time on the oath, just got fed up with the interruptions
G'Kar: Do you want to be president?
Sheridan: Yes
G'Kar: Put your hand on the book and say "I do".
Sheridan: I do
G'kar: Fine, done.
It was a hilarious scene. This was a very good episode, although I'm not sure I'll like Lochley. She was an unlikeable jackass this episode, I hope she gets better.
Also, I have a question. I know there is an in universe reason why G'Kar has mismatching eyes (they needed to wait before adjusting the implant to make it match his real eye) but was there a real life reason? Maybe G'kar's actor couldn't have a fake eye lens on that eye for some reason? Its not a big deal, I'm just wondering.
Overall, Season 4 was pretty good. It had the 2 worst episodes I've seen in B5 so far, and a few annoying plot points, but overall it was good. Season 5 is starting off ok, although Lochley will need an attitude adjustment to be an entertaining character and not just an annoying ass.
Deconstruction of Falling Stars - Many actually like this episode, but, take comfort in the fact this was a last minute rush job to replace the Series Finale (Once TNT renewed B5 for a Season 5). I think it's hilarious watching Delenn put the Talking Heads in their place, "...And you have come much further to say even less"
Lochley is only in 11 of the Season 5 episodes, so, even if you don't grow to like her, at least she's not in every episode
I enjoyed Intersections in Real Time when it originally aired, but, it's not one I look forward to on a rewatch, but, that's mostly because it's painful imagining the abuse Sheridan was put through, not because I think it was a poorly done episode, and actually, I guess it's because it was such a well acted episode
Lochley is only in 11 of the Season 5 episodes, so, even if you don't grow to like her, at least she's not in every episode
I enjoyed Intersections in Real Time when it originally aired, but, it's not one I look forward to on a rewatch, but, that's mostly because it's painful imagining the abuse Sheridan was put through, not because I think it was a poorly done episode, and actually, I guess it's because it was such a well acted episode
She's only in 11 episodes? Thats weird. I figured since she was the new commander, and has a prominent place on the DVD case, that she'd be a big part of the main cast. Still, if episode one was any indication, I'm not complaining about the fact she's only in 11 episodes.
She too was a last minute change. Ivanova was supposed to be in S5, but, the Actress and/or her agent played around with Salary Negotiations too long, and she didn't answer by the dedline, so, Captain Lochley was created and Ivanova was given her own ship offscreen (Though Ivanova returns in the Series Finale, which was filmed prior to S5, when it looked like there was going to be no Season 5, and it was originally going to air as 4.22 instead of Descontruction of Falling Stars).
I'm not sure why Lochley is in only half the episodes, if it was availability or her character just not organically fitting into all the scripts). Sinc she is in half of the Episodes as a regular, she is credited for all the episodes, SAG rules.
It wasn't a natural phenomenon. As JMS said at the time (paraphrasing), "well what would the sun do if hundreds of jump points opened up inside of it?"
Andreas was just a very professional actor and willing to do whatever the story required. I believe his eyes were both naturally brown.
Tracy's contract was for 8 episodes, so she actually appeared in a few more than planned.
Katsulas' eye color was brown so he still wore contacts in both eyes during this time.
I think the first half of Season 5 is the show's weakest run. Yeah, Season 1 had some awkward moments, but at least it was world building.
Others can fill you in on why this happened if you're interested, Kirk. But basically it comes down to story compression in season 4, a last minute renewal, an unexpected cast change, exhaustion, and hotel staff throwing out a bunch of notes and script work. Not fun times!
However, it's worth slogging through these weaker episodes in order to get to the final stretch.
Others can fill you in on why this happened if you're interested, Kirk. But basically it comes down to story compression in season 4, a last minute renewal, an unexpected cast change, exhaustion, and hotel staff throwing out a bunch of notes and script work. Not fun times!
However, it's worth slogging through these weaker episodes in order to get to the final stretch.
Last edited:
My opinion is that Lochley's character was fleshed out in those episodes than Ivanova's was in her first season.
Season 5 has to build up momentum after so much being settled in Season 4. But for me a real bonus of the season is getting some of the eps that had been set aside from the intensity of the fourth season.
Jan
1,000,000+ Humans = Vorlons. Also, I'm pretty sure the sun has billions of years, not a million, before it goes nova
I'm pretty sure that the humans blew up the sun intentionally.
I'm also pretty sure that the Vorlons did the same thing to the Dilger, just over a longer period of time.
1,000,000+ Humans = Vorlons. Also, I'm pretty sure the sun has billions of years, not a million, before it goes nova
I'm pretty sure that the humans blew up the sun intentionally.
JMS addressed the whole sun thing, saying the line about "atypical solar emissions" was meant to show the sun ending wasn't part of its natural life, but it's never clarified whether that was the humans' doing or someone or something else's.
It's one of my favorite episodes too, but hey, different strokes and all that.
Don't know about anyone else but I've given up trying to make sense of Kirk's tastes by this point.
As for 'Deconstruction': Personally I liked it. Not my favourite, but not even close to the worse. What a lot of people miss about the +500 segment is that it's a total '1984' pastiche. The "good facts" bloke (played by guy who played George Francisco in the 'Alien Nation' TV series) spoke almost pure Orwellian newspeak. Similarly, the +1000 segment was a pastiche on 'A Canticle for Leibowitz'.
Personally I liked how it showed that the future isn't plain sailing from here on out. It's a long hard road and we'll occasionally stumble along the way. As much as our heroes changed the future for the better, they didn't create a perfect world where they all lived happily ever after. It ain't that kind of story.
As for the fate of B5 itself; I don't know if you noticed (though Deconstruction should have made it blatantly obvious) the whole show is a story being told in the past tense. It's already happened. It's history, told by those who where there. Indeed the pilot movie begins with a voice over by Londo saying: "I was there at the dawn of
the Third Age of mankind."
Hell, the title sequence of each episode begins pretty much the same: "It was the dawn of the Third Age of mankind...", "The Babylon Project was our last best hope for peace." "...in the year of the Shadow War, it became something greater...", "It was the year everything changed."
As for the station itself, well: "Babylon 5 was the last of the Babylon Stations..." Not "was the last", not "is the last." Past tense again. Besides, way back in season one ('Signs and Portents') we were shown a vision from a Centauri prophetess of the station's destruction and what other Centauri prophecy were we shown in season one?
Before you go on a rant about "stupid spoilers" though Kirk, remember: Context. Matters.
As for 'Deconstruction': Personally I liked it. Not my favourite, but not even close to the worse. What a lot of people miss about the +500 segment is that it's a total '1984' pastiche. The "good facts" bloke (played by guy who played George Francisco in the 'Alien Nation' TV series) spoke almost pure Orwellian newspeak. Similarly, the +1000 segment was a pastiche on 'A Canticle for Leibowitz'.
Personally I liked how it showed that the future isn't plain sailing from here on out. It's a long hard road and we'll occasionally stumble along the way. As much as our heroes changed the future for the better, they didn't create a perfect world where they all lived happily ever after. It ain't that kind of story.
As for the fate of B5 itself; I don't know if you noticed (though Deconstruction should have made it blatantly obvious) the whole show is a story being told in the past tense. It's already happened. It's history, told by those who where there. Indeed the pilot movie begins with a voice over by Londo saying: "I was there at the dawn of
the Third Age of mankind."
Hell, the title sequence of each episode begins pretty much the same: "It was the dawn of the Third Age of mankind...", "The Babylon Project was our last best hope for peace." "...in the year of the Shadow War, it became something greater...", "It was the year everything changed."
As for the station itself, well: "Babylon 5 was the last of the Babylon Stations..." Not "was the last", not "is the last." Past tense again. Besides, way back in season one ('Signs and Portents') we were shown a vision from a Centauri prophetess of the station's destruction and what other Centauri prophecy were we shown in season one?
Before you go on a rant about "stupid spoilers" though Kirk, remember: Context. Matters.
Similar threads
