Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by kirk55555, Jul 30, 2012.
Science fiction is almost never about the future.
The public will still be dumb fucks willing to swallow anything by the time period of Babylon 5. A lie becomes impossible to notice by many if simply presented as a factual TV show.
Thats my biggest objection. I'm watching a show about a space station in the future, I don't need to watch commentary about the present, especially if its done badly. The media is not a topic that you talk about like this anyway. You can do religion, racism, and a lot of other bad/controversial social stuff and make a good sci fi show, too. Star Trek did it. Babylon 5, however, is taking a stupid topic and doing it badly. Like i said, if they downplayed the propaganda and actually had it be stuff people could believe, it wouldn't make me as angry (and, no, the stuff ISN is saying is not like what is done nowadays, its much stupider and would be unbeliveable even to people who support Clark completely). Anyway, we're just talking in circles. I hate the propaganda stuff, and telling me its social commentary isn't something I didn't know (it was pretty obvious since the beginning), its just something that has been done very badly in the show. Still, its just one bad sub plot that doesn't ruin the show. The rest of the show makes up for it. I just wish it would be dropped. Even if you like it, at this point they're just beating a dead horse. We should just move from arguing about the propaganda stuff.
Anyway, on to the episodes I watched.
Racing Mars - The brainwashed Garibaldi can be a bit annoying. The Marcus/Franklin team is very entertaining, they do well together, and have some pretty funny moments. The married thing was great. It was cool to see more of mars. The Ivanova black market stuff was good. I'm guessing that they need earth stuff so badly because they can't get it from aliens, although you'd think that they'd be able to get some stuff from places other than earth. The parasite on Mars was interesting. The Minbari ritual was funny. "Woo Hoo" This was a very good episode.
Lines of Communication - The resistance isn't very unified. you'd think they'd realise the problems with bombing civilians themselves and not need Franklin to tell them it makes no sense. I'm glad Sheridan is going to do something to counter ISN's propaganda. The Minbari seem to have a lot of problems. I can't believe that the warrior clan went from being idiots to murderers. The whole "Minbari don't kill minbari" thing sure has a big loophole, doesn't it. I figured that the Drakh were allies of the shadows. The White Star/Drakh fight was good. Another good episode.
JJ Abrams is that you?
Social commentary has long been one of the biggest parts of sci-fi literature, film and TV. When the sci-fi story doesn't have anything to say about the world right now or where it's going, you almost always end up with dumb shlock.
Why not? Why are some things ok to talk about, but not media? Putting aside whether or not B5 is doing it well, why shouldn't Sci Fi take on media?
Does it remind you of something else we've seen?
Because its boring (I'll admit thats a personal opinion, but since its a thread about me watching stuff, I think its valid) and it usually devolves into basically just the writer ranting on stuff he doesn't like. There is that danger in any topic they try to do the modern comparison with, but in this case its really bad. Its taking up a lot of time and adding nothing to the plot. Most of my objections are from the perspective of a viewer. Doing something like this with the media could be ok (it could never be really good or anything, but it can be watchable) but it needs to be done well and not just become a parody (as long as the show in question isn't a comedy, and B5 isn't). The ISN is a cartoon news agency at this point. It seems like a writer trying to say "Oooh, look, the media is evil and people believe it all" in the most unsubtle way possible.
Bottom line: The Propaganda stuff has gone on too long, taken up too much screentime when it is mentioned, hasn't been entertaining (its been down right painful), and could have been summed up in a few lines of dialog in one episode and had the same effect on the plot.
The regent on the centauri homeworld, and propably the idiotic Londo spoiler from awhile ago.
Are you saying that in GENERAL when sci fi takes on media it's boring? Or just when B5 does it? I'm not going to argue whether or not B5 does it well or not, but, if you are saying the former, what makes media so special over anything else? Why is media "boring" but politics or racism not? (As I said in my question to you, putting B5 aside...)
Why do you think media is an exception? You say it could be "ok" but "never" really good... why never? No science fiction has taken on media in an interesting way?
I think it might be time to drop this one and move on.
Yeah, the topic should just be done with. But, just to answer Professor Zoom, I don't believe its possible for Science Fiction to do something with the media that would be interesting, atleast to me. I have absolutely no interest in the media, so its an uphill battle to make media stuff watchable to me, much less make me actually like it. I'd say that B5 does it badly even if I wasn't predisposed to dislike stuff about the media in TV shows, but even if it was done better I'd still consider it a waste of time.
This is the greatest review thread of all-time.
To be fair, its not exactly a review thread, since I'm not going out of my way to critique everything in the episodes (and I don't rate anything). Its more just about my experiences and thoughts while watching the show as a first time B5 watcher (well, technically it was originally about wether I should buy the first season of B5 or Farscape, then it was about my first time watching B5 and Farscape, and now its about my first time watching B5).
I didn't think the episode was that good, either.
So just because you don't like it, that means it can't possibly be good ever? Seriously dude, you really need to realize that just because you don't like something doesn't mean it can't possibly be good. I didn't like Black Swan when I tried to watch it last year, but I'm more than willing to admit that was a good movie, it just wasn't my kind of movie. I can admit that it could be a well acted, written, and directed movie, even if I didn't like it myself.
Yeah, no, it's just not that kind of thread, you know?
I'm not going to answer any of the latest stuff, except to say that this is not an objective review thread. In the end, its my opinion about the stuff I'm watching. If I think something sucks and was done badly, thats my opinion, and you're not going to change my mind. I'm done with wasting pages on this.
Now, back to what the thread (in theory) is about
Conflicts of Interest - Its always nice to see a new shot of the station. Garibaldi is getting a little annoying. I know he's been brainwashed, but was he really so stupid that he thought he'd get to keep his station assigned gun, link, and ID? I don't know why he wasn't required to turn them in the second he resigned. Learning about the different zathras' was interesting. Wouldn't Garibaldi's ID have been deleted from the system the second he left? That would have made his ID copy useless. Instead, Zach has to delete Garibaldi's clearance himself. I guess they kept it in assuming he'd come back, but you'd think regulations would say to immediately delete his clearance when he resigns. The whole Garibaldi sub plot this episode was interesting, even if a few parts were annoying. I'm sure the stuff they were transporting will turn out to not be what they said it was. The Voice of the resistance is interesting. Also, after watching this episode I watched its preview just because I felt like it. The preview was pretty misleading, to the point where it was almost outright lying about what would happen in the episode. I'm guessing that it wasn't the people working on B5 that made the previews back when the show was on.
Rumors, Bargains and Lies - People keep talking about Delenn breaking the Grey Council, but she really had no choice. It wasn't balanced anymore, and they were basically doing nothing. Even though the warrior minbari was acting resonable, I assumed he'd betray her by the end of the epoisode, and he did. Londo's scene with the Drazi ambassador was great. I liked the joke about the big eyes, big....everything else. This episode definately proved that the religious caste can be as stupid as the warrior caste. Trying to kill themselves so they can be martyrs was ridiculous. The way Sheridan messed with the League ambassadors was great. Overall, this was a good episode.
Moments of Transition - I wonder whatever happened to Minbari don't kill Minbari Most of the warrior caste are idiots. You'd think any human working on B5 wouldn't have any big connections to earth to worry about, so they could use unregistered telepaths without getting into trouble. Bester is great, as alwyas "Make sure he gets enough fiber" . I can't believe that Lyta had to go with Bester's plan. She's been helping B5 for so long, she was very important to the war. You'd think she'd get a salary as maybe the resident telepath in this situation. I know money is tight, but I think Sheridan could find a bit of money somewhere. I'm guessing that Baribaldi's boss either doesn't actually exist (which is why there are no pics of him) or he has another public identity. I'm pretty sure he's also working with Bester. Delenn managed the minbari problem well. The warrior caste leader was a coward. I liked her reasoning behind the new Grey Council. The earth military has definately crossed the line. Sheridan is right, its not just following orders anymore. They killed thousands of civilians. They're evil, and committing war crimes. It will be interesting to see how B5 responds. This was a very good episode. I'm glad the minbari stuff is settled, and that B5 is going to get more involved with stopping the bad military stuff.
I think anyone who has been reading the thread understands this perfectly.
Definitely not. In fact, JMS would warn us from time to time to *avoid* some of the particular previews in order to avoid being spoiled. Some of us always figured that the recipe for the previews was, "One the next Babylon 5! [insert random character images] Something we don't understand will Blow Up Real Good [insert random explosions] and Tensions Will Run High! On the next...Babylon 5!
Moments of Transition - Neroon's Decision is why Grey 17 is Missing, shouldn't be skipped, despite the weak Grey 17 part of the episode, because Marcus' willing to fight Neroon to the death to support Delenn as Anlashok and the respect Neroon gained for her in Grey 17 Is Missing explains Neroon's decision. If it wasn't for the events in Grey 17, Neroon's decison would have seemed to come out of nowhere, especially considering his disdain for Delenn prior to that episode
That's one really great thing about Babylon 5, sometimes little things that seem inconsequential come up later (sometimes years later) and have a great impact.
Nah, the reason I love this thread is because of your unusual and unorthodox opinions. You're like the first person I've ever seen who's thought the Londo-in-the-future thing was done badly, which is fascinating. It'd be way more boring to see you go through the usual motions B5 fans go through; the fact that you curve off in unexpected directions is the reason I keep coming back.
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