Farscape or Babylon 5?

[ATimson]

Funny, I could have sworn I read otherwise... Something about how the Enterprise D looked a little less "real" after abandoning the model for CGI. Maybe they mixed up the details with GEN.

Or you're mixing it up with the change from the 6-foot model (created in the pilot) to the 4-foot model (used pretty much exclusively starting in season 3/4).

I do know that DS9 and VOY had models... at what point did they transition to CGI exclusively?

I don't believe DS9 ever went CGI exclusive - they didn't build a CGI model of the station until "What You Leave Behind". Voyager probably went CGI exclusive somewhere in seasons 3-5.

 

[kirk55555]

Ok, I've gotten the opportunity to watch Crusade (minus the movie that leads into it). Now, I just want to know, what order do I watch it in? I've been reading up on all the things that happened with the series, and there seems to be several watching orders out their (Broadcast [which is probably the worst], chronological, and apparently a order JMS reccomended). I'd go with the JMS order, but I've read online that it can be a bit confusing for first time watchers, since its not in chronological order, but I also read that its a better way to watch than Chronological order.

 

[Lindley]

Crusade doesn't have any one order which is 100% correct, unfortunately.....

I don't have a list handy, but my preference is to start with the black-uniform episodes that clearly come first, then run through the grey-uniform episodes, then finish the black uniform episodes. (The switch back from grey to black is explained by an off-screen "laundry accident"....)

Tentatively......
War Zone
Ruling From the Tomb
Appearances and Other Deceits
Racing the Night
The Memory of War
The Needs of Earth
Visitors From Down the Street
Each Night I Dream of Home
The Long Road
The Well of Forever
The Path of Sorrows
Patterns of the Soul
Ruling From the Tomb
The Rules of the Game

 

[Sindatur]

Ok, I've gotten the opportunity to watch Crusade (minus the movie that leads into it). Now, I just want to know, what order do I watch it in? I've been reading up on all the things that happened with the series, and there seems to be several watching orders out their (Broadcast [which is probably the worst], chronological, and apparently a order JMS reccomended). I'd go with the JMS order, but I've read online that it can be a bit confusing for first time watchers, since its not in chronological order, but I also read that its a better way to watch than Chronological order.

Yea, TNT pretty much ensured things were gonna be screwed any way you go, but, you have to ignore the least amount of issues with JMS' recommended order, IMHO.

 

[kirk55555]

I'm still debating chronological or JMS's order, but I decided that, either way, I'd start with the episode TV viewers had to see first, War Zone. I don't know if I'll post thoughts on each episode like I did with B5, but I decided to atleast do it for the first episode.


War Zone – The mutineer's are understandable. If the Earth is quarantined, and they're from Mars, I can see why they wouldn't want to go there. The debris field was interesting. I wondered who these “alien attackers” are, but the weird Q&A at the beginning was nice enough to give me some info. It looks like the drakh are the ones causing trouble. The theme music isn't great. The riot stuff looks like stock footage. This plague isn't all that threatening, since B5 already showed that the Earth is fine for a few hundred years, until they blow themselves up. You'd think they'd drop the politics in cases of life or death, but I guess to politicians care more about getting their way then having the best team possible. The way the archeology thing is set up, with a lack of communications, seems like a dumb idea. Why are they repeating the mission statement? They just said it about 2-3 minutes ago. Are they going to repeat it every time a new person shows up?

Also, what telepath unpleasantness? the bombings from late B5 season 5? What are the new rules for telepaths? I can't believe there is actually a thieves guild I hope the mage's guild or fighter's guild will be represented on the ship. Maybe he can get an elven rogue or dwarf berserker to round out his party. The Excalibur looks cool. Is the first officer Psi Corp? He's not wearing the uniform, but I didn't think any telepaths were part of the military (not counting hidden/weak ones like Ivanova) and he doesn't seem like a rogue. Senator Exposition likes to repeat info the audience already knows. Its a little early in the show for the “I'll leave you to die if you don't help me, even though you're only a civilian” threat from the captain. Are the red eyed drakh guys in helmets? They don't look like the main one, and their heads look like helmets, not actual heads. They also kind of look like Predators. Obi Wan is interesting, although he could potentially be an annoyingly mysterious guy if done wrong. The fighting montage was kind of lame, atleast from a music perspective. The Excalibur's big gun is interesting. I'm kind of surprised that the Excalibur could take on three ships at once. I thought all the techno mages were gone forever. He's kind of creepy. Repeating the earlier Q&A is a bit annoying. This episode wasn't great, but I knew that going in, since even JMS doesn't like it. The exposition was heavy and repeated way too much, but the set up and characters seem interesting.

 

[Lindley]

FYI, one of the TV movies acts as a setup for Crusade. That's the source of the debris field at the beginning.

 

[Sindatur]

I'm still debating chronological or JMS's order, but I decided that, either way, I'd start with the episode TV viewers had to see first, War Zone. I don't know if I'll post thoughts on each episode like I did with B5, but I decided to atleast do it for the first episode.


War Zone – The mutineer's are understandable. If the Earth is quarantined, and they're from Mars, I can see why they wouldn't want to go there. The debris field was interesting. I wondered who these “alien attackers” are, but the weird Q&A at the beginning was nice enough to give me some info. It looks like the drakh are the ones causing trouble. The theme music isn't great. The riot stuff looks like stock footage. This plague isn't all that threatening, since B5 already showed that the Earth is fine for a few hundred years, until they blow themselves up. You'd think they'd drop the politics in cases of life or death, but I guess to politicians care more about getting their way then having the best team possible. The way the archeology thing is set up, with a lack of communications, seems like a dumb idea. Why are they repeating the mission statement? They just said it about 2-3 minutes ago. Are they going to repeat it every time a new person shows up?

Also, what telepath unpleasantness? the bombings from late B5 season 5? What are the new rules for telepaths? I can't believe there is actually a thieves guild I hope the mage's guild or fighter's guild will be represented on the ship. Maybe he can get an elven rogue or dwarf berserker to round out his party. The Excalibur looks cool. Is the first officer Psi Corp? He's not wearing the uniform, but I didn't think any telepaths were part of the military (not counting hidden/weak ones like Ivanova) and he doesn't seem like a rogue. Senator Exposition likes to repeat info the audience already knows. Its a little early in the show for the “I'll leave you to die if you don't help me, even though you're only a civilian” threat from the captain. Are the red eyed drakh guys in helmets? They don't look like the main one, and their heads look like helmets, not actual heads. They also kind of look like Predators. Obi Wan is interesting, although he could potentially be an annoyingly mysterious guy if done wrong. The fighting montage was kind of lame, atleast from a music perspective. The Excalibur's big gun is interesting. I'm kind of surprised that the Excalibur could take on three ships at once. I thought all the techno mages were gone forever. He's kind of creepy. Repeating the earlier Q&A is a bit annoying. This episode wasn't great, but I knew that going in, since even JMS doesn't like it. The exposition was heavy and repeated way too much, but the set up and characters seem interesting.

First, have you watched the TV Movie A Call To Arms yet? It's a Pre-Pilot, and should be watched before Crusade.

Second, War Zone was a Pilot TNT forced JMS to Produce, because they wanted a "sum-up" the plot Pilot. Episode 1.01 was his desired Pilot for the series.

Crusade skipped past the Telepath War, and was going to cover some of it in Flashbacks, and there was hopes there would be a Theatrical movie or other medium to tell the Telepath War, but,all we got was one flashback in a Crusade Episode and what little is covered in The Psi Corps Trilogy of books

 

[Booji]

Kirk: you should go with the chronological order. The JMS order is terrible and you'll be scratching your head constantly.

and yes, the first officer is Psi-Corps. Telepaths are now allowed to work in any field they want... just so long as they don't mind invasive background checks, which you'll get to soon.

 

[kirk55555]

I haven't seen A Call to Arms and I probably won't for awhile. Its not too big a deal, I get the basic stff, I was just wondering about a few things.

 

[Jan]

As stated, 'War Zone' was forced on JMS when TNT decided to NOT show 'A Call to Arms' just before the first episode. You're also right that the riot footage is public domain footage that had to be located at the last minute.

I love the opening theme music for Crusade but in other places the music is really jarring.

I'll be interested to see your thoughts on the various characters going on.

Jan

 

[hyzmarca]

The Technomages were basically just getting out of the Shadows's way. Once the Shadow War ended they really didn't have a reason to remain hidden, though many of them still are.

Galen is the representative of the Mage's Guild in the party, though he is a rogue member acting without the authorization of the others.

I sort of got the feeling that JMS played a lot of D&D before writing a call to arms.

 

[JoeD80]

Also, what telepath unpleasantness? the bombings from late B5 season 5? What are the new rules for telepaths?

Remember Lyta and Garibaldi's deal? Garibaldi was given two years to fund Lyta to get his block against Bester removed. Since Lyta now had funding - Telepath War in 2264. Telepaths can now serve in the military. There's a little bit more on this in later episodes.

War Zone was a Pilot TNT forced JMS to Produce, because they wanted a "sum-up" the plot Pilot. Episode 1.01 was his desired Pilot for the series.

"Racing the Night" was the intended first episode.

The Technomages were basically just getting out of the Shadows's way. Once the Shadow War ended they really didn't have a reason to remain hidden, though many of them still are.

Actually there's a specific reason they had to get out and not be near the Shadows influence. The Shadows servants may have the same capability and the Technomages aren't sure.

Spoiler: Technomage Trilogy

This was in Joe's outline for the Trilogy; not sure if it translated to the books - the Shadows could flip a switch and control all the Technomages because they had implants in their bodies that were linked to them. The Technomage was like the Shadow equivalent of the Vorlon telepaths - weapons for their side to use if necessary.

 

[DalekJim]

I haven't seen A Call to Arms and I probably won't for awhile. Its not too big a deal, I get the basic stff, I was just wondering about a few things.

I'm one of the few that loves Crusade but Call to Arms is truly shambolic. The duo of that and War Zone are often enough to put new viewers off Crusade.

Which is a shame as it's fucking great and Max is one of my fave B5-verse characters.

 

[JamesRye]

Both Farscape and Battlestar had some cool fictional swears!
http://ryesofthegeek.wordpress.com/

I prefer Farscape because the dialog is better, also the F/X work on B5 looks very dated. As for a Call to Arms, I caught it on TV recently - truly dire:

http://ryesofthegeek.wordpress.com/2012/12/22/babylon-5-a-call-to-arms-tv-movie-review/

 

[Aeon]

I'm one of the few that loves Crusade but Call to Arms is truly shambolic. The duo of that and War Zone are often enough to put new viewers off Crusade.

Oh, I rather liked A Call To Arms.

 

[Reverend]

^So did I. Not as good as 'In the Beginning', but still pretty good. The only thing I never really dug was the music. Points for at least trying something new though.

 

[Booji]

I thought 'A Call to Arms' was very good. It's easily my fav of all the movies.

I also love the music, which carried over to Crusade. it's progressive jazz, so i can understand if it's not everyones cup of tea. I think the music would have gotten better and better as the series progressed. People seem to forget that Christopher Franke's music during the first season and a half of B5 was fucking horrid, and he improved dramatically as time went on.

i've said this many times before, but in my opinion, the first 13 episodes of Crusade and 'A Call to Arms' absolutely shit all over the first 13 eps of B5 and 'The Gathering'. I would have loved to see how things would have gone in the 2nd half of season 1 and into season 2.

 

[Reverend]

I don't have a problem with the quality of aCtA/Crusade's score, I just never felt it was a good fit. I mean a piece of music can stand on it's own, but a score needs to support and enhance what's on screen. While in this case it did work quite well in the quieter scenes, establishing shots, etc. it pretty much fell apart whenever anything remotely exciting or dramatic happened.

The battle scene near the end of aCtA caused such cognitive dissonance it was like watching the battle of Helm's Deep to elevator music. In certain circumstances that kind of thing can work ("And the Sky Full of Stars" springs to mind) but it has to match the emotional tone the scene is meant to invoke.

You're right though, Franke's work in B5 was a bit hit and miss early on (though there were some high points) and didn't really hit his stride until mid-season 2. And yes, I agree that on balance, what was made of Crusade were overall better episodes than their equivalents on B5. But then of course to be fair, Crusade was being made with the benefit of hindsight. Not that it made a difference in the long run.

 

[Kegg]

A Call to Arms feels far too like someone wrote up their D&D campaign as a movie. I remember it being pretty mediocre, but honestly besides In the Beginning I wasn't big on any of the Babylon 5 telefilms (it was at least better than River of Souls).