Far Beyond the Stars....
- Thread starter Neoshade
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This is indeed a great episode. Although I'm not a fan of the way DS9 made use of the "Prophets" in the later seasons of the show, this episode is an example of making good use of them.
I liked that the Benny Russell thread wasn't dropped, but returned to in season 7.
one of the top five episodes of DS9 IMHO.
I liked that the Benny Russell thread wasn't dropped, but returned to in season 7.
one of the top five episodes of DS9 IMHO.
This is a VERY good episode(s) and probably my favorite of the series. Avery Brooks did an amazing job on this episode and reconfirms to me why he is my favorite captain of all time. The whole idea of them dealing with racism, having the actors out of costume and make-up; it was all ingenius. In fact, when I go back to watch DS9 again I may just start with that episode!
This episode was pretty epic. I liked seeing the actors without their make-up. Armin Shimmerman is a human!?! Who would've thunk it? Rene is that old? Wow... And when I first saw the newspaper stand guy, I had no idea that it was Nog. And I didn't recognize the policemen at first either.
Did anyone recognize the rocket in the office?
Did anyone recognize the rocket in the office?
Epic is definitely the word for it. I remember the first time we watched it there was one I could NOT figure out.. and then I realized it was Martok. I love this ep, it's gripping and fascinating.
I want to watch it again now!
I want to watch it again now!
I had become disappointed that DS9 was descending into cliché and formula, but this was one that to me contends for a spot in the top ten across all series.
Just to mix it up here...
I liked the eps well enough. It seems to be a bit of a vanity piece for Brooks. A big showcase for him, a signature piece he wanted to make and a DS9 story constructed around it or for him (I know he didn't write it).
I'm not saying I didn't like it. I did. And it is good and well done. A fine eps.
But even when I watched it first airing, I got a sense of "this is Avery Brooks making a statement and showcasing his talents".
That may just be my mis-perception.
But I haven't seen it mentioned here, so I thought I'd bring it to the table.
I liked the eps well enough. It seems to be a bit of a vanity piece for Brooks. A big showcase for him, a signature piece he wanted to make and a DS9 story constructed around it or for him (I know he didn't write it).
I'm not saying I didn't like it. I did. And it is good and well done. A fine eps.
But even when I watched it first airing, I got a sense of "this is Avery Brooks making a statement and showcasing his talents".
That may just be my mis-perception.
But I haven't seen it mentioned here, so I thought I'd bring it to the table.
Sorry to rain on the parade here, but I gotta say, I'm not a big fan of this one. Beyond the novelty of seeing the cast out of make up and acting with period piece costumes and production design, I don't think there's much to it. It sure looks amazing, but I'm surprised so many people are too blinded by the beauty of the episode's appearance and nobility of its intentions to realize how unimpressive the substance is compared to the style.
The message is pretty obvious, and once I get past thinking "Wow, it sure is neat to see them out of make-up and in these costumes, to hear Jadzia act like a bimbo, to hear Rene Auberjonois not use that annoying Odo gravelley voice, and hear Jake say such a forbidden word", it feels very empty.
It also has what I consider the two worst final scenes in this whole series with Avery Brooks going so over-the-top in that fit he throws in his office and his monologue in the space station (oh how cringe-inducing his cadence is in that scene!) that he out-Shatners Shatner as his hammiest. The first time I saw this episode, I enjoyed it mostly for how unique it looked and because its positive message really is touching, but the bad acting ruined it for me so much that I never want to watch it again.
The message is pretty obvious, and once I get past thinking "Wow, it sure is neat to see them out of make-up and in these costumes, to hear Jadzia act like a bimbo, to hear Rene Auberjonois not use that annoying Odo gravelley voice, and hear Jake say such a forbidden word", it feels very empty.
It also has what I consider the two worst final scenes in this whole series with Avery Brooks going so over-the-top in that fit he throws in his office and his monologue in the space station (oh how cringe-inducing his cadence is in that scene!) that he out-Shatners Shatner as his hammiest. The first time I saw this episode, I enjoyed it mostly for how unique it looked and because its positive message really is touching, but the bad acting ruined it for me so much that I never want to watch it again.
What makes the episode great is the depiction of oppressive discrimination, with the cherry on top being that it echoes and parallels the development of TOS. In place of "you can't have a black captain", read "you can't have a female first officer". And to boot, "you can't have a black captain either" would have been said, were DS9 pitched in the 60's.
You can think of wearing no make-up as a novelty gag, but wearing no make-up actually fits into the theme of making a self-referential comment about Star Trek. As a device, it plays as if the actors themselves, rather than the characters, are making editorial comments about Star Trek.
Furthermore, it's now coming up on 20 years since DS9 began, and the good ol' USA here still has issues with having a black leader. I see turning up Sisko's breakdown to 11 as an honest and passionate reaction to just how deep a problem racism is in my country. Anything less would be denying reality.
You can think of wearing no make-up as a novelty gag, but wearing no make-up actually fits into the theme of making a self-referential comment about Star Trek. As a device, it plays as if the actors themselves, rather than the characters, are making editorial comments about Star Trek.
Furthermore, it's now coming up on 20 years since DS9 began, and the good ol' USA here still has issues with having a black leader. I see turning up Sisko's breakdown to 11 as an honest and passionate reaction to just how deep a problem racism is in my country. Anything less would be denying reality.
The rocket was cheesy-looking, red, and had three curvy "legs" or landing nodes or whatever those are called.
And regarding Martok, yes, I didn't recognize him. I wondered who on earth that person was.
And regarding Martok, yes, I didn't recognize him. I wondered who on earth that person was.
Well perhaps I am a bit simple but the episode certainly made me think 
I felt as though we can all be who we are destined to be no matter what circumstances or time we are living in.
I felt as though we can all be who we are destined to be no matter what circumstances or time we are living in.
It's J. G. Hertzler's voice that should have tipped you off. Very distinctive.
I wasn't sure if that was dubbing or what. But after watching it the second time, I got it!
@TooMuchFun, you think Brooks' acting was hammy? I thought it was good. How would you act like you're having a nervous breakdown?
Oh, and the question for all time: Was Benny Russell a real person in the Trek universe?
@TooMuchFun, you think Brooks' acting was hammy? I thought it was good. How would you act like you're having a nervous breakdown?
Oh, and the question for all time: Was Benny Russell a real person in the Trek universe?
Well it wouldn't be pretty, but I don't think there would be quite as much emphatic gesturing with the hands (i.e. jamming a finger into the temple) and speaking with a voice that's going all squeaky.
More like just crumpling in a heap and sobbing. All that "It's REEEEEAAAAALLL" stuff was a bit much.
As I've said before, I think a better, more realistic example came from Edward James Olmos on "Battlestar Galactica", reacting to finding out who one of the final five Cylons was.
He fell to the ground and sobbed very bitterly, to the point where he had drool coming out of his mouth. It was unsightly, but felt more "real".
agreed. i thought he was supurb, but after seeing what people said.... maybe he did go a little over the top.... to showcase his acting.
nonetheless, hes was great. alot of DS9 episodes touch base on realworld problems that are current today. in JJ's world of startrek, Earth is a perfect society... paradise. no poverty, no racism, no crime. and people do things for the benefit of mankind. wonderful concept i think, jj... is such a visionary.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who was really put off by the awful, awful acting in this episode.
Yes, it's "neat" to see them out of character and in the period-specific costumes. Yes, racism is bad and this was a relatively creative way of making a little statement about it. But the dialogue was terrible, and Avery Brooks' acting was truly unbearable.
ITTTTSSSSS REEEEAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLL!!!!!!! ITTTSS REAAALLYYY REAAAALLLLLL!!
We all got used to his acting "style" over the years, but he was just too far out there in this episode - it was way, way too much.
This is my favorite DS9 episode.
You know I didn't remember this episode at all from it's original run, and as I'm re-watching them i considered skipping them "oh no not a alternative reality one", thinking it's padding it out and just a break from the main story, but I watched it and i'm so glad i did, very different from what i expected from Star Trek, i think they pulled it off well.
To everyone asking about the bright red rocket - i think it's a reference to Tintin's rocket to the moon (it looks great!), there's also a great reference for all us Buffy fans out there, on one of the walls in the office there's a note "No one would believe that a cheerleader could kill vampires"! I liked that a lot.
To everyone asking about the bright red rocket - i think it's a reference to Tintin's rocket to the moon (it looks great!), there's also a great reference for all us Buffy fans out there, on one of the walls in the office there's a note "No one would believe that a cheerleader could kill vampires"! I liked that a lot.
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