Well, I wanted a little more than that, considering the premise. But that's me.
Enterprise WAS a Prequel!!!
- Thread starter VulcanMindBlown
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Well, I wanted a little more than that, considering the premise. But that's me.
The nuts and bolts of building the Federation shouldn't be in the hands of a single ship.
I'm not even sure the premise of the show was "The founding of the Federation". It's setting was pre-Federation. so yes plots could touch on things that lead to the founding. But was it sold as being all about the founding? Even if it was, it should be a slow burn. The UFP shouldn't be founded in season one. And from my recollection they did inch toward it in various episodes. From building a relationship with the Andorians, meeting the Tellerites and gaining an equal footing with the Vulcans.
hard to reconcile that with:
KIRK: Any response from the Malurians, Lieutenant?
UHURA: Nothing since their original distress call, sir.
KIRK: What about the Federation science team working there? Doctor Manway had a special transmitter.
A lot of that would be super-boring meetings between government functionaries at all levels up to the meetings creating a Fed Council. Then boring meetings of the Fed Council. But it would be a lot of gab and record-keeping and boring as hell. Picture Journey to Babel but nothing but the reception, and maybe not even lunch most of the time, let alone tasty colored play dough. It's not like the Federation was established in a swashbuckling coup or astounding bootstrap power grab. Now, the Terran Empire...we know it went down just that way, with Hoshi a Caesar (well creating a dynasty anyway, the Empire was already the Empire, but it's close). Democracy is no fun.
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Never cared for it
See, I buy this argument, but I don't buy the argument that TNG aliens who were not seen in TOS therefore were not known in the TOS era. But I agree that every new Trek series needs to introduce new aliens (looking forward to seeing what they come up with for ST2017). But, as we've seen, that is a losing proposition too, in terms of fan complaints about ENT.
I don't buy that much of ENT was interchangable with VOY. ENT had some poor episodes, but could never match VOY for sheer blandness. ENT also had more of a sense of danger and consequences than VOY's famous "reset button" style.
I certainly never had that impression.
Isn't that what Dune is is empire building?
Also, if democracy is no fun, why do so many people want it?
On topic, I came across a concept in an article dissecting the "space ship" as portrayed in science fiction. It discussed how in the Age of Sail, there was the ability for ships to continue on by having the ability to repair themselves by retrieving materials and shipboard skill. I think that ENT would have been interesting if we had seen more of that kind of Old World bartering and exploring. we certainly have hints of that but I wouldn't mind seeing more craftsmanship on the part of different crewmembers to solve problems.
Well, if you can get past the lackluster first season (which contains some of the most horrible acting I've ever seen on television), it does get better.
In Dune the empire already exists. What happens is a coup.
Saw it all. Bad dialog by worse actors killed it for me.
By force, mainly. Exciting.
No fun for drama. In reality it's CSPAN. We're talking about a peaceful, voluntary coalescing of societies. By definition it isn't even conflict, it's unified movement toward a common goal. Unless, maybe, there was politicking of some kind that could have provided a conflict. That would probably have been worth showing, and would have been likely for a while. Not sure how that could involve the Ent crew though.
For every Mr. Smith Goes to Washington there are 100 Lions in Winter or Three Musketeers.
When was the last time you read the books exactly?
Just curious, because for every fight there are 100 or so speeches about the nature of humanity, manipulating people and the politics of power.
I think ENT could have ofered us more insight in to some of the species that were part of Babel conference. It could have shared insight in to why Coridan might matter, the nature of Tellarites, and some hints at the coming conflict in Babel. In fact, the drama can come from the conflict, that was attempted between the Andorians and the Vulcans, at least to some degree. The Andorians, unfortunately, come across has very thin sketches at first, so there are hints of what could have been.
Politics is persuasion, and persuasion often comes with conflict between parties.
I remember it well. But, as you say, those are speeches, or really more accurately I'd say, internal monologues. That was one of the issues the 1984 movie faced, how to externalize all this interesting stuff going on in internal life. The voiceovers that they did have were too few, too short for what they were adapting from the book, and didn't work. It wouldn't have worked well for Ent, either.
But the actual events were dictated by force. It's not like Paul was creating some sort of democracy. When the Baron attacked and defeated Leto, Rabban was killed, Paul made successful raids, or the Emperor essentially overthrown when he stuck his neck out too far, that was force deciding the day, not committees.
Setting aside for the moment that this episode was meant to be half-hearted, there's a world of difference between an alien encounter in the 1940's and and alien encounter in the 2150's.
Babylon 5 put me to sleep. I wanted to like it, but it was just so completely lifeless.
From the way Connor talks about the character. I don't think that was the intent (except in TATV). But with the show being out there at the same time Bush was in office, Trip got lumped into that stereotype. And you should check out the Malcolm thread. He's probably the most polarizing character, particularly to Brits. Some hate that he's a stereotype but some of Malcolm's most passionate fans, both here and in fanfiction circles, are British. Take from that what you will.
http://www.trektoday.com/articles/trinneer_trektrak2005.shtml
Connor Trinneer said:
Is Star Trek the only fandom where it's a crime for a prequel to introduce new peoples/species? I never heard of this being an issue anywhere else, as much as other prequels get slammed. I don't feel like finding the post but Christopher Bennett once said that complaining about the Xindi would be like complaining that Mission Impossible went to a country not previously mentioned in another episode/movie. Not to mention that most people don't know jack shit about history (at least in the US). Even if you assume that people in the future will care more about history, not every important event/person makes it to the textbooks.
In an ENT podcast for Trek FM, one host said that he liked ENT because he found so many connections to TOS (forgot which episode that was). Norman Lao did a Warp 5 (ENT) stint for a year before moving to Standard Orbit (TOS). He wouldn't be hosting either of them if he wasn't a fan.
I found it annoyingly self important.
What does the tone have to do with anything?
What is that world of difference?
The fact remains that humans and Ferengi met and interacted.
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