End of DS9 on to Voyager

[DevilEyes]

Where would Enterprise fit in here, I've only watched one or two, but that will be next after Voyager... does that follow more after DS9 as character based, story arcs etc or more scifi adventure and action based?

Season 1 of ENT combines a few story arcs with Scifi/adventure/action episodes and character episodes - but the Scifi/adventure/action stories are mostly weak, and you feel like you've already seen them on other Trek shows (this is also the case with VOY). It gets worse in season 2, when the network ordered Berman & Braga to lay off the show's arcs (Temporal Cold War, Andorians and Vulcans) and do more episodic Scifi/adventure stuff, something that never really worked well on ENT. As for the arcs, one of those - the Temporal Cold War - was never well planned, and was never resolved in a satisfactory way. The Vulcan/Andorian stuff, which leads to the birth of the Federation, was better and would continue in season 4.

There's character development, but in the early seasons there is some inconsistent writing for the captain character (which is also VOY's problem). A lot will depend on whether you find the characters engaging or not. If you like them, like I did, it will get you through the weak and average stories. If not... I doubt that you'll ever really enjoy the show, and you certainly will find a lot of the first 2 seasons unbearable.

Seasons 3 and 4 are very different than the first two - and much better. Season 3 is build on a year-long story arc (which starts in season 2 finale), features conflict on the ship and takes the characters to dark and difficult places. One could day that the first 2 seasons, especially season 2, feel more like TNG-lite/VOY, while season 3 feels more like DS9 in its later seasons or BSG. It also features some great action/battle scenes and, something I was especially impressed by, some of the most amazing visuals in Trek - instead of technobabble, you get to see what "anomalies" can be like, and generally, it does a good job of "show, don't tell".

Season 4 is the season where ENT really started doing what it should have been doing as a prequel show. You get a lot of references to TOS and other Trek shows, and it consists of a several storyarcs, including a few 2-parters and 3-parters, mostly dealing with politics, Earth's relations with other species, origins of the Federation, etc. However, the finale "These Are the Voyages" is horrible, feels completely out of sync with the season, and pretty much everyone now sees it as a mistake.

 

[Amasov]

As I just watched the whole series from start to finish myself, I can agree. My two top reasons for liking the show so much was that, first it's an ensemble. I love ensemble shows. Every character was likable in very different ways. They played off each other very well too. Even many of the recurring characters had more screen time than the regulars.

Second and probably most importantly, it took Star Trek in a whole new direction. I love that it stood apart from the rest and dared to take Trek into an area that it had never been before.

I don't "prefer" Deep Space Nine, Voyager, or any of the other series over one another -- though when it comes to the opening theme, then I'll want to pick DS9!

I love them all, but for different reasons.

 

[Amasov]

Season 4 is the season where ENT really started doing what it should have been doing as a prequel show. You get a lot of references to TOS and other Trek shows, and it consists of a several storyarcs, including a few 2-parters and 3-parters, mostly dealing with politics, Earth's relations with other species, origins of the Federation, etc. However, the finale "These Are the Voyages" is horrible, feels completely out of sync with the season, and pretty much everyone now sees it as a mistake.

Minus "These Are The Voyages...," season four should have been Enterprise's first.

I liked Enterprise just fine, myself. It had its weak points (season two, anyone?), but overall it wasn't so bad. The first season didn't really take the series anywhere, but I thought it was pretty decent. It was definitely better than Voyager's seventh season.

 

[Kai Winn]

you'll find out soon that voy is closer related to tos than tng. with the exception of kes who goes over board after 3 seasons it lacks the dull characters of tng, namely troi, the crushers, and worf. the chemistry of the crew is certainly the best since the kirk/spock/bones troika. you'll find janeway amazing and will state that if you could, you would choose to serve under her. the doc is probably the best star trek character ever, with 7 a close second, and their relationship a delight to watch. what you will not miss are the dull klingon-honour stories of tng and ds9. voy is also not the constant shouting of the siskos, kiras and odos, they somehow manage to have authority at low volume, and resort to action instead. the borg are a far more satisfying enemy than the dominion, and they encounter more horrifying alien species in each season than ds9 presented in seven of them. i have no doubt that voy will become your favourite show.

 

[FordSVT]

What can I expect from Voyager, any avid fans who rate Voyager as highly as DS9?

Voyager is unlike DS9 in pretty much every way. Voyager regresses back into TNG's no conflict, no story development, no character development, tons of holo-deck filler instead of SciFi stories etc. etc., formulas.

Also, Voyager brings back the technobabble in spades.

Personally, I think TNG and Voyager are both very bad shows for those and other reasons. However, most fans seems to love TNG yet think Voyager is a lot worse, despite them both having the exact same grievous flaws.

Except TNG did them first, did them better, had less techno-babble by a factor of about a million, and didn't have dozens of entire plots that revolved around said techno-babble, with solutions that involved techno-babble leaving you to wonder why you just watched an episode in the first place. TNG also stuck to its premise, while Voyager practically abandoned it's premise save about a dozen episodes spread out over the last five seasons. TNG had one of the best series finales of all time, Voyager... not so much.

Voyager Season 1 was worth watching, but from then on it's individual episodes only, like "Scorpion". TNG season 1 sucked for the most part, picked up steam in 2, 3-6 were stellar and season 7 was about 50/50 in my estimation.

So in short, I think you're wrong because you're comparing them in only the most superficial of ways. A lot of people hate Voyager because they promised us one thing and gave us "TNG Lite". Mind you I'm not one of them, I don't hate it, in fact the Doctor is one of my favourite sci-fi characters ever, and Tuvok is probably the best "true" Vulcan ever played on screen and a truly interesting character. But I don't think it's as good as TNG.

By chance did you watch TNG during its original run before DS9 and Voyager were on the air? Or after?

VOY is so inferior to DS9 that watching it will be a depressing experience. Maybe check out something better - Farscape or the new BSG.

Some would say watching NuBSG is one of the most depressing things you could do with your time.

you'll find out soon that voy is closer related to tos than tng. with the exception of kes who goes over board after 3 seasons it lacks the dull characters of tng, namely troi, the crushers, and worf.

Yeah, because characters like Chakotay and Harry Kim were just STUPENDOUS.

 

[kimc]

I think I would plunge into a deep depression if I started watching "Voyager" after DS9...what a massive drop in quality that would be. It's like going from dinner in a fancy restaurant to spam-in-a-can. But then, I'm a "Voyager" hater, so I'm biased. I've started watching "Battlestar Galactica" since the last time I finished watching DS9. It's not Star Trek, but it makes a nice follow-up to DS9 with the serialized storytelling and the Ronald D. Moore connection and it's of a similar quality (although I think it rarely ever hits the heights of DS9 in its prime seasons).

Actually a fair number of Voyager fans are also nuBSG fans. Most fans are also not blind to its faults but we call ourselves fans anyway.

You never know who the show will grow on. Notice the sig?

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Don't listen to the naysayers TC. Give Voyager a chance. It certainly isn't the best Trek show, but it has a lot of great moments. It really doesn't get good until season 4 though (in my humble opinion). I think many of the people who bash the show have only watched a few eps.

Even if you don't get that into it, it is worth watching for the Doctor alone.

 

[DevilEyes]

Don't listen to the naysayers TC. Give Voyager a chance. It certainly isn't the best Trek show, but it has a lot of great moments. It really doesn't get good until season 4 though (in my humble opinion). I think many of the people who bash the show have only watched a few eps.

Even if you don't get that into it, it is worth watching for the Doctor alone.

But then unfortunately in seasons 6 and 7 it gets even worse than season 3.

 

[shauncroucher]

Thanks for all the replies, great insight!

I watched Caretaker last night, on to episode 2, possibly 3 tonight... too early to tell at this stage but I remain hopeful!

Shaun

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Don't listen to the naysayers TC. Give Voyager a chance. It certainly isn't the best Trek show, but it has a lot of great moments. It really doesn't get good until season 4 though (in my humble opinion). I think many of the people who bash the show have only watched a few eps.

Even if you don't get that into it, it is worth watching for the Doctor alone.

But then unfortunately in seasons 6 and 7 it gets even worse than season 3.

Well I would agree on 7, but I liked season 6.

Another thing I should mention, if you are into the whole "crew as a family" thing, I think Voyager probably pulled this off better than any of the other Treks did. Of course some might be turned off by that. I liked it though.

 

[TheGodBen]

You never know who the show will grow on. Notice the sig?

I was just playing to the crowd in the Voyager forum when I said that. I secretly loath Voyager with a passion.

 

[Anwar]

If you're expecting a show where the entire crew, with no exceptions, completely fall to pieces within the first two episodes and spend the entire series hating and plotting to murder one another in their spare time while the rest of it would comprise of them all becoming vicious bloodthirsty space pirates who revel in being free of the Federation and go around ravaging, destroying and stealing everything from every sentient race encountered (especially the nice ones who welcome them) because that's "more true to life" and "better drama" than people who decide to overcome their differences and accept the aid others give them then Voyager isn't for you.

 

[DevilEyes]

If you're expecting a show where the entire crew, with no exceptions, completely fall to pieces within the first two episodes and spend the entire series hating and plotting to murder one another in their spare time while the rest of it would comprise of them all becoming vicious bloodthirsty space pirates who revel in being free of the Federation and go around ravaging, destroying and stealing everything from every sentient race encountered (especially the nice ones who welcome them) because that's "more true to life" and "better drama"...

If you're expecting that kind of show, than I'm afraid you won't find a single one on TV, past or present. At least none that I am aware of.

 

[TheGodBen]

Isn't that the plot description for Stargate Universe?

 

[RyuRoots]

If you're expecting a show where the entire crew, with no exceptions, completely fall to pieces within the first two episodes and spend the entire series hating and plotting to murder one another in their spare time while the rest of it would comprise of them all becoming vicious bloodthirsty space pirates who revel in being free of the Federation and go around ravaging, destroying and stealing everything from every sentient race encountered (especially the nice ones who welcome them) because that's "more true to life" and "better drama" than people who decide to overcome their differences and accept the aid others give them then Voyager isn't for you.

I really must find whatever portal you use to find the Mirror Universe where there are actually people who may think that.

 

[DevilEyes]

Isn't that the plot description for Stargate Universe?

Well I haven't watched the second part of the season 1 yet, but if you're right, I can't wait! Gimme some vicious bloodthirsty space pirates!

 

[RandyS]

Isn't that the plot description for Stargate Universe?

I don't know about Stagate Universe, but it's definately New Galactica.

And the description fails to mention how Kara makes a point to kick puppies and small children in every episode.

Okay, she really doesn't but if she could have, she would have.

 

[kimc]

You never know who the show will grow on. Notice the sig?

I was just playing to the crowd in the Voyager forum when I said that. I secretly loath Voyager with a passion.

"So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."

 

[Smiley]

If you like TNG and DS9, then you will probably like VOY to some degree. Just accept that getting home is not something that will be addressed often on the show. It is mostly the wacky adventures of a Starfleet crew in the Delta Quadrant. When it gets things right, they are very right, and I'd say around 70% of the show is worth your time, just like most other TV shows.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

But then unfortunately in seasons 6 and 7 it gets even worse than season 3.

So true. Voyager ends as a worser show than it began.

You can say I prefer the earlier seasons, and I do, but that doesn't really say much when the early seasons are bad too. Only the 4th season is a thing of beauty.