Thanks for helping to further prove that the Trek Fandom/Hatedom were ready to hate VOY from its inception.
End of DS9 on to Voyager
- Thread starter shauncroucher
- Start date
Thanks for helping to further prove that the Trek Fandom/Hatedom were ready to hate VOY from its inception.
How so?
Learn the back-story before you comment, troll.Jimmy Bob did not hate Voyager from the start, he actually enjoyed it. He did a thread on his impressions while watching the show for the first time last year, if you care to understand his position on the show then I suggest that you read his thread. Here's a choice quote from his second paragraph:
Jimmy Frankenstein said:
By the way, he's not a Niner either, he's currently watching DS9 for the first time. So that puts paid to your insane "Niners hate Voyager" claim, doesn't it?
I admit that I'm quite protective of Jimmy Bob, he's like me only far less cool, so if I see you talking shit about him again nothing will stop me from notifying the mods on you. How many warnings have you received because of this crap now?
You haven't been here long enough to know what talking sh*t is if you think THAT tiny sentence was talking sh*t. People should stop flaming VOY if they don't want that to happen.
Two.
Anyways, we're going off topic again.
Anywho, like I said if you're expecting a show where the entire crew, with no exceptions, completely fall to pieces within the first two episodes and spend the entire series hating and plotting to murder one another in their spare time while the rest of it would comprise of them all becoming vicious bloodthirsty space pirates who revel in being free of the Federation and go around ravaging, destroying and stealing everything from every sentient race encountered (especially the nice ones who welcome them) because that's "more true to life" and "better drama" than people who decide to overcome their differences and accept the aid others give them then Voyager isn't for you.
Jimmy Bob is just some guy that watched Voyager, thought he was going to love it, and was eventually disappointed by where it went, so he said so. If you think THAT is flaming then you haven't been here long enough because what he said was the equivalent of a lukewarm draft.
Fair enough, let's see what else you have to say.
Don't you have anything better to do, troll?
Umm... okay.
The only real problem with Voyager is that there is no payoff. Everything else would have been excusable if there just had been a payoff.
When you're investing into these characters it really sucks, once 5 seasons in, they learn exactly the same lessons and go exactly through the same stories again. The only difference between the early seasons and later seasons is more polish. And that characters are still fresh and actually more interesting.
Voyager was obviously from the beginning Castle to TNG's CSI. Similar kind of show but much lighter in tone. But even a light show needs payoff and characters to have different lessons to go through.
And that's why Castle is at the moment more interesting than Bones, because Bones keeps stalling. How long can Bones keep being socially awkard and ignorant about human nature? Bones isn't fresh anymore. Castle at the moment is still fresh.
Now Voyager early seasons were interesting because the characters were still fresh. Then they became boring in season 3. But season 4 brought a new character and that made Voyager interesting again. But it was all downhill from there.
And season 6 really sucked. And that's why Voyager ended as a worser show than it began. I really loved the show at first, but there was no payoff for that love.
You're right, but changing that line to "month after month" would have forced me to change some of the other lyrics to rhyme with it, and I have too much respect for that song to put the word "cunt" in it.And it hasn't been a year yet.
ALL -
I see all of the usual suspects are here once again, taking shots at each other. And I want it to stop - like NOW.
This is NOT the place to bash VOY, nor it is the place for VOY fans with a permanent hard-on for taking shots at DS9 fans to get their jollies.
Please stop both sorts of behavior now or warnings will abound.
Thanks.
And just for the record, 'worser' is not a word.
I see all of the usual suspects are here once again, taking shots at each other. And I want it to stop - like NOW.
This is NOT the place to bash VOY, nor it is the place for VOY fans with a permanent hard-on for taking shots at DS9 fans to get their jollies.
Please stop both sorts of behavior now or warnings will abound.
Thanks.
And just for the record, 'worser' is not a word.
No worries.
I'd just like to point out that I did not bash Voyager in this thread, I even recommended that the OP watch the show, and in my first couple of posts in this thread I tried to advise the OP in as impartial a manner as I'm capable of. I wish that we could discuss Voyager on its merits in the DS9 forum without it devolving into mud-slinging, and that's what I was trying to do.
I'd just like to point out that I did not bash Voyager in this thread, I even recommended that the OP watch the show, and in my first couple of posts in this thread I tried to advise the OP in as impartial a manner as I'm capable of. I wish that we could discuss Voyager on its merits in the DS9 forum without it devolving into mud-slinging, and that's what I was trying to do.
To get back on track:
I'm in Season 6 of DS9 right now, and once finished, will be going through Voyager with the Misses. I got her into Star Trek because of Voyager for the most part, but figured since our following of Voyager was fragmented, I'd get her into DS9 first then into Voyager.... which should be in a couple more weeks. (I've already seen DS9 and TNG all the way through in the past)
As it goes for my opinion on Voyager, it's good..... it's not super great, but it has it's own identity. In my opinion, Voyager was the first moment the Star Trek series began to go down hill, where Enterprise, imo, was the death of ST seriesez being on TV for a while.
Where TNG thrived was in character development and story telling.... but overall, lacked action. TNG was about taking you out of the old "Wild West" style of TOS and bringing us into a more sophisticated era in humanity.... but because of this, it left a few people dry and uninterested.
DS9 thrived in not only character development and story telling, but also in action, especially once you get through the first couple of seasons..... while TNG was what got me into Star Trek, DS9 I have to say was done better in all aspects. Heck, DS9 could touch on the whole science vs. religion debate and yet make both make perfect sense to one another.... also, because DS9 revolved around a space station, there was more opportunity to not only have more room in character development and familiarity, but still be able to bounce the series from a stationary area, to more of the TOS/TNG area of things with the Defiant and the Wormhole.
Now.... with Voyager, it does fall back into the TNG area of things, but not quite. There's action..... usually plenty of action, which seems to stem from the DS9 style.... but to me it felt as though they didn't work as hard on character development as they did in TNG or DS9...... BUT as it goes for the story continuing through the series, Voyager does a pretty good job like DS9, then compared to TNG.
In TNG, there was really good character development and stories overall.... but they were like TOS episodes, where there were so many random stories and episodes in between that really broke up the series in such a way that there wasn't much of a continuation from episode to episode like in Voyager or DS9.
I've seen about 90% of the Voyager series and will go through start to finish once DS9 is completed, and the last time when I started to go through the Voyager series, I did learn to appreciate Voyager and grow to like the show. To admit, I never gave Voyager much of a chance when it first aired..... mainly because I was still getting caught up on TNG and watching DS9 which was still dishing out new episodes at the time, so I was a bit over come by everything already out at the time and didn't have time to follow Voyager for very long.
Also, I think the other problem I had with Voyager, which also happened when DS9 started, and also in TNG, is that each series has a big issue with the first two seasons being a bit drab.... where most of the episodes are designed around character development.... which is of course needed to get you absorbed into the show..... but also because of this, there's less action and interesting things going on, compared to the later seasons, thus it's hard for someone who's never seen the series before to get involved.
The first couple of seasons of Voyager are a bit on the side of dreary due to having to muddle through character setup/development, but there are still some impressive episodes that will make you think..... but like the other seriesez, once you get to the end of season 2 and into season 3.... that's when things begin to take off.... and once Season 4 kicks in, that's when you pretty much get through most of the character development and right into the core story and challenges Voyager faces.
It basically breaks down into a couple of sections for Voyager.... the first part of the series is them figuring out wtf happened, how to work together with the Maquis, how they're going to survive and how they're going to get home. It then evolves into the crew doing just fine with one another, them gaining more confidence in their abilities to survive and coping with the situation. Then it evolves into them being pretty solid crew and knowing the ship inside and out, but then countered by giving them a formidable challenge, which is to get home by passing through Borg Territory all by themselves...... then concludes with..... well, I'll let you watch the series to find out.
The only Star Trek series I have yet to give a good chance in watching is Enterprise..... though I did get through the first season and into the second, and it's actually not that bad.... still a little gun-ho american'ish in how they deal with their problems in each episode, but still not too bad.
I'm in Season 6 of DS9 right now, and once finished, will be going through Voyager with the Misses. I got her into Star Trek because of Voyager for the most part, but figured since our following of Voyager was fragmented, I'd get her into DS9 first then into Voyager.... which should be in a couple more weeks. (I've already seen DS9 and TNG all the way through in the past)
As it goes for my opinion on Voyager, it's good..... it's not super great, but it has it's own identity. In my opinion, Voyager was the first moment the Star Trek series began to go down hill, where Enterprise, imo, was the death of ST seriesez being on TV for a while.
Where TNG thrived was in character development and story telling.... but overall, lacked action. TNG was about taking you out of the old "Wild West" style of TOS and bringing us into a more sophisticated era in humanity.... but because of this, it left a few people dry and uninterested.
DS9 thrived in not only character development and story telling, but also in action, especially once you get through the first couple of seasons..... while TNG was what got me into Star Trek, DS9 I have to say was done better in all aspects. Heck, DS9 could touch on the whole science vs. religion debate and yet make both make perfect sense to one another.... also, because DS9 revolved around a space station, there was more opportunity to not only have more room in character development and familiarity, but still be able to bounce the series from a stationary area, to more of the TOS/TNG area of things with the Defiant and the Wormhole.
Now.... with Voyager, it does fall back into the TNG area of things, but not quite. There's action..... usually plenty of action, which seems to stem from the DS9 style.... but to me it felt as though they didn't work as hard on character development as they did in TNG or DS9...... BUT as it goes for the story continuing through the series, Voyager does a pretty good job like DS9, then compared to TNG.
In TNG, there was really good character development and stories overall.... but they were like TOS episodes, where there were so many random stories and episodes in between that really broke up the series in such a way that there wasn't much of a continuation from episode to episode like in Voyager or DS9.
I've seen about 90% of the Voyager series and will go through start to finish once DS9 is completed, and the last time when I started to go through the Voyager series, I did learn to appreciate Voyager and grow to like the show. To admit, I never gave Voyager much of a chance when it first aired..... mainly because I was still getting caught up on TNG and watching DS9 which was still dishing out new episodes at the time, so I was a bit over come by everything already out at the time and didn't have time to follow Voyager for very long.
Also, I think the other problem I had with Voyager, which also happened when DS9 started, and also in TNG, is that each series has a big issue with the first two seasons being a bit drab.... where most of the episodes are designed around character development.... which is of course needed to get you absorbed into the show..... but also because of this, there's less action and interesting things going on, compared to the later seasons, thus it's hard for someone who's never seen the series before to get involved.
The first couple of seasons of Voyager are a bit on the side of dreary due to having to muddle through character setup/development, but there are still some impressive episodes that will make you think..... but like the other seriesez, once you get to the end of season 2 and into season 3.... that's when things begin to take off.... and once Season 4 kicks in, that's when you pretty much get through most of the character development and right into the core story and challenges Voyager faces.
It basically breaks down into a couple of sections for Voyager.... the first part of the series is them figuring out wtf happened, how to work together with the Maquis, how they're going to survive and how they're going to get home. It then evolves into the crew doing just fine with one another, them gaining more confidence in their abilities to survive and coping with the situation. Then it evolves into them being pretty solid crew and knowing the ship inside and out, but then countered by giving them a formidable challenge, which is to get home by passing through Borg Territory all by themselves...... then concludes with..... well, I'll let you watch the series to find out.
The only Star Trek series I have yet to give a good chance in watching is Enterprise..... though I did get through the first season and into the second, and it's actually not that bad.... still a little gun-ho american'ish in how they deal with their problems in each episode, but still not too bad.
Sadly, the family and I just finished DS9 and soon will be on to Voyager as well. I enjoy a lot of the series, but I think DS9 is a lot deeper and that, I think, is one reason DS9 wasn't as successful. I've probably said this a lot on this board, but to sum up:
I LOVE TOS (including the films), TNG (excluding the films) & DS9 and like VOY and ENT.
I LOVE TOS (including the films), TNG (excluding the films) & DS9 and like VOY and ENT.
I found Voyager to be a bit more engaging. They actually like went places and saw things and stuff.
You can expect the ship to be damn near destroyed every episode, only to look fresh out of spacedock in the next episode. If you like Ed Wood movies, you may like Voyager.
I can't believe we've gotten this far into the thread without linking to some of the Ron Moore interviews after he ended his very short stint at VOY.
He gave a two-part interview after he left where he discussed his experience with Star Trek and some of what happened on Voyager.
Part one
Part two
I thought the interview was illuminating as he pointed out several inconsistencies with VOY's production that limited its potential. There's some indication of Moore's worldview that would go toward the creation of nüBSG.
For me, Moore's interview solidified my viewpoint of VOY — a great premise with solid potential. At some point to me during VOY's run, it became clear that it wasn't going to live up to its potential and backtracked somewhat on its premise and character development.
For me, the show also became less believable and less fun with a corresponding drop in my enjoyment of the series. I also never bought into the claim that Voyager's crew was more of a "family" than other crews, given the inconsistent character development for a select few and the lack of development for the rest.
Some individual episodes of VOY were fun and/or thoughtful and I would rate those highly. However, I have little love for the series as a whole.
He gave a two-part interview after he left where he discussed his experience with Star Trek and some of what happened on Voyager.
Part one
Part two
I thought the interview was illuminating as he pointed out several inconsistencies with VOY's production that limited its potential. There's some indication of Moore's worldview that would go toward the creation of nüBSG.
For me, Moore's interview solidified my viewpoint of VOY — a great premise with solid potential. At some point to me during VOY's run, it became clear that it wasn't going to live up to its potential and backtracked somewhat on its premise and character development.
For me, the show also became less believable and less fun with a corresponding drop in my enjoyment of the series. I also never bought into the claim that Voyager's crew was more of a "family" than other crews, given the inconsistent character development for a select few and the lack of development for the rest.
Some individual episodes of VOY were fun and/or thoughtful and I would rate those highly. However, I have little love for the series as a whole.
Actually, the interview was much longer, but for some reason the remaining pages are much harder to find. Here's the rest of it if anyone is interested:
Part III
Part IV
Part V
Part VI
Part VII
It's a fascinating read, if a little flawed in places. For example, at one point he says that the studio never interferes with Star Trek so Voyager should be free to do what it wants, but he neglected the fact that TNG and DS9 were syndicated shows whereas Voyager was on a network and subject to much more studio interference.
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