DS9 on blu ray?

[tomswift2002]

It looks 1080i to me. This screenshot shows combing (Kira):

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x06hd/trialsandtribbleationshd0008.jpg

It was probably a 480i/60 upscale to 1080i/60 (60 interlaced fields showing 30 completed frames per second), which is the native refresh/frame rate of the SD master. I doubt they went through the trouble of converting it to 1080p/24.

No it's 480i. I even tested one of the Season 2 "Twilight Zone" episodes that was shot on tape and released on Blu-Ray at 1080i with my PS3 set to the 4:3 480 p output, and the TW episode played back at 16:9 1080i. The native resolution for "Trials and Tribble-ations" on Blu-Ray is 480i ---unless CBS released two different Blu-Ray sets with one featuring the episode in HD and the other in SD, but marked both as HD.

 

[Grant]

Idea for a "Best of" Blu-ray release of DS9 with two 32 episode fully re-mastered Box sets.

It will never happen, but it's interesting speculation and I won't buy DS9 seasons 1 and 2 even if they do full season sets for reasons of money and my lack of interest in those seasons. I would buy something like this.......


theoretical “Best of DS9 Part I box set”

I speculate it would be an 8 disc set with 27 “arc episodes” and 5 stand alone Fan-favorite ‘voted on’ episodes.

Box One would contain highlights of seasons 1-4

My List……..

Episodes number/name/content

1. Emissary part 1--pilot
2. Emissary part 2-- pilot
19. Duet--cardassian war criminal……..my fan choice #1
20. Hands of the Prophets--intro Kai Winn, season 1 ender
21. Homecoming--Bajoran coup trilogy 1,season 2 opener
22. Circle--part 2
23. Siege--part 3
39. Blood Oath--re-intro Kang, Kor and Koloth
40. Maquis part 1--intro of the maquis movement
41. Maquis part 2--
43. Crossover--first “mirror” episode
46. Jem’ Hadar--beginning of the Founders arc, season 2 ender
47. Search part 1--looking for the Jem’Hadar, season 3 opener
48. Search part 2--
51. Second Skin--Cardassian believes kira is his daughter…..my fan choice #2
55. Defiant--Riker returns……..my fan choice #3
60. Heart of Stone--founders trick Odo into professing love for Kira….my fan choice #4
65. Improbable Cause--major precursor to Founder war part 1
67. The Die is Cast--part 2
66. Thru the Looking Glass--part 2 of “mirror” arc (filmed in-between previous two-parter)
72. Adversary--season 3 ender, sets up Founder infiltration of federation.
73. Way of the Warrior part 1--start of Klingon civil war, Worf intro, season 4 opener
74. Way of the Warrior part 2
76. The Visitor--”old Jake” seeks his lost father……….my fan choice #5
79. Starship Down--iconic battle with Jem’ Hadar
80. Little Green Men--classic ferengi comedy episode…..my fan favorite #6
81. Sword of Kahless--part of “original klingons” arc
83. Homefront--founders infiltrate earth part 1
84. Paradise Lost--part 2
86. Return to Grace--key Dukat/Kira episode…..my fan favorite #7
87. Sons of Mogh--farwell to Kurn…..my fan favorite #8
92. Shattered Mirror--”mirror arc” part 3
94. For the Cause--key Maquis episode
96. To the Death--strong Jem’ Hadar episode
98. Broken Link--Odo becomes Human, season 4 ender

So as you can see I didn’t trim my favorites to 5 yet, but there is my outline of a “Best of DS9 Box Set part I”

Part II would be the key/best episodes from seasons 5-7

I'd be interested in folks choices for the best "stand alone episodes"

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Right, I've heard it theorized on other sites (TrekCore, for example) that DS9 and VOY will be released in HD, but the concern is whether they're worth the complete remastering that we got for TOS and TNG, or if they'll see something more like ENT where they upscale the existing masters (the difference being DS9/VOY will be more noticeably up-scaled than ENT).

The scenarios I've seen floating around are

1) Complete remastering - going back to the film negatives and reconstructing special effects ala TNG.
2) Use the existing masters and upscale them, ala ENT, which will result in something like "Trials and Tribble-ations" on TOS-R S3, which is noticeably lacking.
3) A combination, where they reconstruct the from the film negatives, but simply upscale effects sequences.

I think we'd all like to see option 1, and my guess is that's what CBS will do given, but in the end it'll all come down the money.

I think they'll go with option 1 at first. DS9 starts off with exactly the same setup as TNG - all ships models, only very limited CGI in total - so they can just proceed directly onward, which will be quicker and simpler (and thus cheaper!) than pausing to consider.

After that, there's two inflection points that could go either way - first, the sales figures for DS9 S1 and second, the point at which CGI starts to become a major part of the series. If sales come in far enough under target, they'll stop. And the CGI scenes are going to be more expensive to redo properly* - if there's a point at which upscaling comes into the picture, that'll be it.

*Yes, there was that bit a while back about *some* of the assets still surviving. But even if everything the guy saved is usable in HD with a simple rerender, as he claimed, that was the effects house that did more VOY than DS9.

TNG was given a budget for remastering the whole series from the start, so they didn't have to wait for sales on the first season blu-ray to move further with the project. It was going to be finished, regardless of how well (or poor) it sold. DS9, of course, may not get that kind of leeway, but we'll see.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

It looks 1080i to me. This screenshot shows combing (Kira):

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x06hd/trialsandtribbleationshd0008.jpg

It was probably a 480i/60 upscale to 1080i/60 (60 interlaced fields showing 30 completed frames per second), which is the native refresh/frame rate of the SD master. I doubt they went through the trouble of converting it to 1080p/24.

No it's 480i. I even tested one of the Season 2 "Twilight Zone" episodes that was shot on tape and released on Blu-Ray at 1080i with my PS3 set to the 4:3 480 p output, and the TW episode played back at 16:9 1080i. The native resolution for "Trials and Tribble-ations" on Blu-Ray is 480i ---unless CBS released two different Blu-Ray sets with one featuring the episode in HD and the other in SD, but marked both as HD.

It's definitely presented in 1080i. You can verify this for yourself by ripping the first chapter of the episode to your hard drive with DVDFab HD (the program will identify the video as 1080i -- it will be the only file on that disc with that resolution), then playing the resulting BDMV m2ts file in VLC Media Player (as I just did). The file will identify as 1920x1080 @ 29.97fps. There's no doubt about it, the episode has been upconverted. The double-digit bitrates you mentioned earlier should've also clued you in to what the presentation resolution was (e.g. average bitrate 17.0 to 22.0 Mbps). You wouldn't need bitrates that high for just run-of-the-mill 480i content on blu-ray.

 

[tomswift2002]

I think CBS was trying to fool people because the episode is definitely on the Blu-Ray in 480i. There is no upconversion present (it's all done by the machine, unless as I suggested, CBS released two versions of the Blu-Ray with one containing the SD version and the other an upconverted one, but I think one of their PR people must've been using early notes) And with the PS3, doesn't matter what output settings you have it set to, if the TV is able to display higher it pulls the higher resolution, upto the max of the video file. But with the double bit rates I've noticed that on a few other Blu-Rays with SD bonus content---not as high as 33.0, but usually right down between the 12.0 and 15.0 range. (Not to mention but the combing can occur at 480p levels as well if the conversion to progressive hasn't been done correctly).

 

[DrOBoogie1]

Guys - for clarification - the CBS tweet was referring to the first appearance of the STATION in high definition in "Birthright". It was by no means meant to indicate a DS9 Remastering is imminent... it was poorly worded.

Then why reference "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" instead of "DS9"? Why say "first look"? Indeed, we've already had our first look at the station in HD with the TNG season 6 blu-ray preview.

Why even tease the audience that anything about DS9 is coming in HD if the series isn't being planned? Is the brief appearance in season 6 considered a selling point? I doubt it.

Not doubting what you are saying, but there seems to be more to this tweet. Or it's the biggest (and most inexcusable) tease of fans since Warner Bros. put Batman '66 home video artwork on last year's ComicCon merchandise, all while denying the show was coming. (An official announcement came six months later.)

The CBS tweeter needs to clarify. And maybe apologize.

 

[Tosk]

I don't want an apology. I want to stay hopeful.

 

[Tom]

Well the 3 main reasons for doing DS9 (and Voyager) in HD:

- Sales, more discs to sell but how well would DS9 on Blu ray sell? that is CBS's biggest question.

- Future Proofing, there is really no such thing as something better (4k, 8k, holograms LOL) will always be coming out. Still, they really need to have these series in better than SD quality.

- Franchise Consistency, You have all the movies and 3 out of 5 series in HD. You would think that would want the remainder of the franchise in HD.

 

[FrontierTrek]

Then why reference "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" instead of "DS9"? Why say "first look"? Indeed, we've already had our first look at the station in HD with the TNG season 6 blu-ray preview.

Why even tease the audience that anything about DS9 is coming in HD if the series isn't being planned? Is the brief appearance in season 6 considered a selling point? I doubt it.

Not doubting what you are saying, but there seems to be more to this tweet. Or it's the biggest (and most inexcusable) tease of fans since Warner Bros. put Batman '66 home video artwork on last year's ComicCon merchandise, all while denying the show was coming. (An official announcement came six months later.)

The CBS tweeter needs to clarify. And maybe apologize.

Deep Space Nine is a selling point for Season 6 - that much is clear from the trailer and press release!

CBS's tweets and other social media releases are done by an external agency not connected to Star Trek - they know very little about the show and don't think anywhere nearly as deeply as you might think about the content of their posts. Indeed, there have been plenty of Trek-related mistakes before more serious than this one!

You, and many other fans, assume there is something more to this tweet. I'm trying to avoid your disappointment by stating as clearly as I'm able to that Deep Space Nine is by no means a foregone conclusion.

 

[DonIago]

Regarding the "Best Of" idea...that's exactly the kind of thing I personally would not buy. I don't want bits and pieces of the show, I want the whole shebang.

And I'd be worried that if I bought the "Best Of" set then I'd be left with coasters if/when the series proper was released.

 

[BillJ]

- Sales, more discs to sell but how well would DS9 on Blu ray sell? that is CBS's biggest question.

Probably would sell only a portion of the discs TNG has sold. Which is problematic if TNG sales have slipped since season one.

- Future Proofing, there is really no such thing as something better (4k, 8k, holograms LOL) will always be coming out. Still, they really need to have these series in better than SD quality.

Why? The only reason to upgrade them would be if broadcasters were interested in paying an increased licensing fee for them.

- Franchise Consistency, You have all the movies and 3 out of 5 series in HD. You would think that would want the remainder of the franchise in HD.

I think the bottom line is all that matters here. If they think there is money to be made upgrading DS9/VOY then they will. I doubt they'll burn money just for the sense of being complete.

I do wonder what the odds are of Voyager leap-frogging DS9 and getting the HD treatment done next?

 

[TheSeeker]

Guys - for clarification - the CBS tweet was referring to the first appearance of the STATION in high definition in "Birthright". It was by no means meant to indicate a DS9 Remastering is imminent... it was poorly worded.

The standard line of information that you've seen repeatedly from us is that DS9 is a huge project, very complicated, but CBS are considering all options.

I feel the need to be a bit clearer about this as some fans have started to predict that DS9 could follow hot on the heals of TNG early next year. The reality is that getting such a project off the ground for a seamless transition from TNG is now VERY unlikely. There has been no green light, and with the speed things are moving, it is seeming increasingly likely that CBS Digital will wrap TNG and move on to other things by the time DS9 becomes any sort of a reality.

I hope this settles a bit of the (very natural) speculation.

While I didn't think DS9 was likely based on the sales figures of TNG and Enterprise I've seen reported around the internet, this still bums me out. Makes it seem more likely that if DS9/VOY ever make it to HD, the product will be more similar to The X-Files than TNG.

If they do end up going this route they certainly won't be getting my business. However, I will choose to remain optimistic that DS9 will get the full HD remaster treatment at some point.

 

[MacLeod]

A DSN remaster would be a long term investment. So they may not make any return on the investment in the short term.

 

[BillJ]

A DSN remaster would be a long term investment. So they may not make any return on the investment in the short term.

How long-term? The show is already twenty-plus years old. Doesn't seem like too many content providers are willing to shell out big money for content that old. The Original Series and The Next Generation had the wider recognition of general audiences to make the gamble worth it. Enterprise, didn't have the recognition, but was HD Ready so there was no real gamble. The economics may simply not make sense for full restores of Deep Space Nine or Voyager.

I kinda get the feeling if it doesn't get done soon, it won't be done at all. Definitely hope I'm wrong.

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

I seem to remember suggesting DS9 on Blu might not happen as a consequence of cold economics in a previous thread - which didn't go down too well. It's tremendously well thought of within a fairly tight-knit sub circle of Trek fandom - no doubt about that - but it just doesn't have the broader appeal of its predecessors.

I'll go on record stating I AM a fan of the show (though admittedly, my least favoured iteration by some margin), and would love to see it given the full HD treatment.

 

[Grant]

Regarding the "Best Of" idea...that's exactly the kind of thing I personally would not buy. I don't want bits and pieces of the show, I want the whole shebang.

And I'd be worried that if I bought the "Best Of" set then I'd be left with coasters if/when the series proper was released.

Except of course if they released a best of set with 50-60 episodes they would never go back and decide let's remaster "Move Along Home" and all the marginal episodes--because nobody would buy those except for the "all or nothing" crowd.

If the re-mastering team breaks up and moves on----we won't be getting DS9 on Blu-ray at all.

Lastly if they were to do full seasons that would be murder because many people would not want to spend money on seasons 1 and 2. So they'd be spending months and big money to re-master the first 46 episodes that are the weakest.

 

[Harvey]

The point of remastering the series is to preserve its value in syndication and on streaming services. If they do it, they won't do fifty of the "best" episodes. They'll do the whole run. The more episodes you have, the more valuable your syndication package is.

 

[Grant]

The point of remastering the series is to preserve its value in syndication and on streaming services. If they do it, they won't do fifty of the "best" episodes. They'll do the whole run. The more episodes you have, the more valuable your syndication package is.

I just don't see them doing the whole series. Maybe they might upscale the series and try to sell I in syndication/streaming as HD, but doing an even more complicated and expensive re-master of a series that is less popular than TNG...........

And even a diehard like me won't buy seasons one and two and wouldn't buy anything but seasons 6 and 7 on release day.

Maybe some DS9 fans are richer and more fanatic than me.

But the process of what they are doing is an assembly line and it looks like they're shutting down that assembly line.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

I think CBS was trying to fool people because the episode is definitely on the Blu-Ray in 480i. There is no upconversion present.

I don't know what else to tell you, Tom. I copied the first chapter of the file to my hard drive and played it in VLC Player. The video is 1920x1080i... and all screencaps taken from it are also 1920x1080. It doesn't matter what the behavior is you're seeing on your PS3 and display, the video is most definitely upconverted. Do what I did yourself and you will see (you should have done that before you altered the memory-alpha article). The discs are all identical.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

But the process of what they are doing is an assembly line and it looks like they're shutting down that assembly line.

CBS waited three years between TOS-R and TNG-R. Some of the same people worked on both projects. Let's not be too cynical about this. We're swinging from over-enthusiasm to a tweet to utter despair at any chance of seeing DS9 on blu-ray. These companies thrive on their libraries of content and their ability to re-sell them over and over. Give it time. Only reason based on what you know to be true.

Here's what we know to be true: currently there's no green light for DS9. That's it.