DS9 on blu ray?

[USS KG5]

This is coming more and more of a thing I've noticed with older shows on Netflix that never saw a true HD edition. I don't really know how they do it, but I assume there most be some filtering program that masks compression and interlacing and does some kind of slight internal resolution increase. I suspect this can be done extremely cheaply if there's an original digital source, as it can be done in automated batches. But, like I said, I don't know much about that stuff.

Not so much Netflix good as DVD bad I suspect. Typically they used to cram several episodes onto a DVD making the most of shelf space, and the bit rate was low enough for MPEG2's worst habits to be most visible.

Meanwhile Netflix uses much more modern compression, so even their SD episodes, of things in the UK like Buffy and Doctor Who, look better than their DVD equivalents. The technology is just ten long years younger.

However, for reasons, a little while back when Voyager was on Amazon Prime, it looked crappy, so I'm guessing either the masters are in a very rough state or Amazon prime was still tweaking its technology.

 

[Tosk]

I'm sure I've said this before, but I would buy DS9 on Blu-ray even if it was literally the old masters with better compression. Yes, I'm that sad. The compression on the DVDs varies from average to abysmal.

 

[Squiggy]

I won't pretend to have absolute information, but no. That is not the reason. How would that even work anyway? DS9 has been on laserdisc, VHS, and DVD. What part of her contract would apply to releasing it on a fourth format?

A fourth yet-not-invented format.

 

[jaime]

Not so much Netflix good as DVD bad I suspect. Typically they used to cram several episodes onto a DVD making the most of shelf space, and the bit rate was low enough for MPEG2's worst habits to be most visible.

Meanwhile Netflix uses much more modern compression, so even their SD episodes, of things in the UK like Buffy and Doctor Who, look better than their DVD equivalents. The technology is just ten long years younger.

However, for reasons, a little while back when Voyager was on Amazon Prime, it looked crappy, so I'm guessing either the masters are in a very rough state or Amazon prime was still tweaking its technology.

May have been connection. I watched a ton of it on prime, and used some free credit to get Blood Fever recently (it's off prime but can still be purchased) and the quality was best I had seen apart from some seriously rough opening sequence and crawl in caretaker (my off air recording of its very first UK showing, on an ancient Vhs actually looked better I suspect.)

 

[Griffeytrek]

I won't pretend to have absolute information, but no. That is not the reason. How would that even work anyway? DS9 has been on laserdisc, VHS, and DVD. What part of her contract would apply to releasing it on a fourth format?

As I said I could be completely wrong on this, but from what I can piece together the big deal is that the images from the actual shows are changed as part of the process. The actors images are changed and manipulated in ways subsequent to the original publishing. Normally this is not a big deal in the movie and tv world. But Farrell was a top model before Trek and her Representing Agency at the time was primarily a Modelling Agency. So her contracts were written from that perspective. With typical clauses governing models and the use of their images. A minor trivial detail at the time, since there had never historically been a need to reprocess and alter every frame of an actor on film. And the problem is as a result of those contracts that Agency has a rights piece of every image of Ms. Farrell in the can and approval from them is needed to digitally edit them for the HD cleanup. The stopping block is not the BluRay format. It is the HD conversion and that it involves manipulating the actors image. And making it even screwier is it isn't the actor causing the issue but their former Talent Reps who were party to the original contracts.

So in effect CBS can release the show on any format they wish. But they need the Agency's permission to publish newly digitally manipulated images of Terry Farrell.

 

[dub]

Based on posts from at least one insider in this thread, it would seem they moved forward at least to the phase of looking into the cost of producing the graphics in HD, then at some point they (apparently) decided against moving forward. I doubt they would have ever wasted time with quotes if they knew there would be legal issues due to Farrell's contract.

 

[Squiggy]

There's no nefarious legal reason why. There just isn't demand.

 

[Tosk]

As I said I could be completely wrong on this, but from what I can piece together the big deal is that the images from the actual shows are changed as part of the process. The actors images are changed and manipulated in ways subsequent to the original publishing. Normally this is not a big deal in the movie and tv world. But Farrell was a top model before Trek and her Representing Agency at the time was primarily a Modelling Agency. So her contracts were written from that perspective. With typical clauses governing models and the use of their images. A minor trivial detail at the time, since there had never historically been a need to reprocess and alter every frame of an actor on film. And the problem is as a result of those contracts that Agency has a rights piece of every image of Ms. Farrell in the can and approval from them is needed to digitally edit them for the HD cleanup. The stopping block is not the BluRay format. It is the HD conversion and that it involves manipulating the actors image. And making it even screwier is it isn't the actor causing the issue but their former Talent Reps who were party to the original contracts.

So in effect CBS can release the show on any format they wish. But they need the Agency's permission to publish newly digitally manipulated images of Terry Farrell.

No.

 

[Lance]

I'm sure I've said this before, but I would buy DS9 on Blu-ray even if it was literally the old masters with better compression. Yes, I'm that sad. The compression on the DVDs varies from average to abysmal.

Yeah, me too.

The thing to bear in mind is that our viewing devices are much higher definition these days as well. DVDs always had compression, and nothing on DVD was ever quite as good as broadcast, but the flaws are much more obvious to us on our current range of TVs (and I've got a home theater with a projector and a big screen, and I can tell you the DVDs don't look great on that even 'upscaled' by a Blu Ray player.)

So, even a basic release of just the broadcast masters, while not going to ever look as amazing as TNG and TOS do on Blu Ray, would still be an improvement over the DVDs by simple merit that the DVD compression artifacts (visual and audio) would not be present. Whether that small amount of improvement would be enough to convince buyers to purchase them, or whether they'd just end up sitting on store shelves gathering dust for not being 'True-HD'..... that is the sticking point.

 

[Tosk]

By the end of the TNGHD project, their upscaling had gotten to a pretty good standard. (Terrible compared to the true HD of course, but y'know...) Just use those settings on the original masters of DS9, slap 'em on a Blu-ray and sell them to me. Do it now.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

I wouldn't mind if they did something similar with the original TOS cuts. While, I think the remasters are great for the most part, there are things that dive me nuts: the Tholian ship, for example.

I picked up the Blu-ray's with seamless branching. The effects actually hold up pretty well in 1080p.

Yup. it's not needed for the original versions of TOS; they're just not the circulating digital versions. The Blu-rays are fantastic though.

 

[Harvey]

By the end of the TNGHD project, their upscaling had gotten to a pretty good standard. (Terrible compared to the true HD of course, but y'know...) Just use those settings on the original masters of DS9, slap 'em on a Blu-ray and sell them to me. Do it now.

Such a set would cater to an infinitesimal audience, and the resulting masters would have little value in the digital and syndication markets. It'll never happen.

I'd settle for what they did on The X-Files -- upscale the effects, but remaster from the original film elements for all the live action material. Sad that even this is a dream, but the audience just isn't there.

 

[DS9forever]

Just thought I'd add a link to the #ds9onblurayplease page on Twitter for people to follow:

https://www.twitter.com/hashtag/ds9onblurayplease?src=hash

 

[Tosk]

It'll never happen.

I know. Doesn't mean they can't make one set just for me though. There is no monetary barrier to them making me my own Blu-ray set!

 

[BillJ]

Sad day. Just packed away my Deep Space Nine and Voyager DVD's. There simply wasn't room on my shelves for them any longer. They are available on Netflix if I ever get the desire to watch them again.

 

[Relayer1]

Sad day. Just packed away my Deep Space Nine and Voyager DVD's. There simply wasn't room on my shelves for them any longer. They are available on Netflix if I ever get the desire to watch them again.

Jeez, I only just got them !

I was making sure there was no chance of a Bluray release before parting with money...

 

[BillJ]

Jeez, I only just got them !

I was making sure there was no chance of a Bluray release before parting with money...

I tend to think that the production of a new TV show is putting the final nail in the HD coffin for DS9 and Voyager. CBS will have four Trek shows in HD to syndicated/streaming markets.

 

[dub]

I tend to think that the production of a new TV show is putting the final nail in the HD coffin for DS9 and Voyager. CBS will have four Trek shows in HD to syndicated/streaming markets.

Hmm...I'm definitely not saying it's going to happen, but to me (if anything) the obvious desire for CBS to have a successful streaming channel, the fact that they're using a new Trek series as the flagship, and the fact that this is the 50th anniversary of the franchise, would re-open the case for offering the remaining Trek series in HD in some capacity, even if it's one of the quick and dirty upscaling scenarios as described by others on the previous page of this thread. Again, I'm not saying it's going to happen - but to me, if anything, it offers a glimmer of hope not a nail in the coffin.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

No one here is against Deep Space Nine (or Voyager) on Blu-ray.

I'm saying that now because I see the point of the people who were arguing for DS9 on Blu-Ray, and I agree with them. Also, I can't believe that people would want something as shitty as The Brady Kids on pressed DVD when this is better off as a DVD-on-demand sold at Amazon.com, or as a show that can be seen on Hulu at Hulu's CBS channel (where the shitty cartoon based on Happy Days is playing, and ONLY there.) There are hundreds of other shows that CBS and Paramount own that could be on DVD or Blu-Ray that are better than The Brady Kids.

There's no nefarious legal reason why. There just isn't demand.

Sadly.

 

[Squiggy]

There are hundreds of other shows that CBS and Paramount own that could be on DVD or Blu-Ray that are better than The Brady Kids.

Verily - but when you look at the costs and benefits it probably made sense.

Show's don't get released because they "deserve" it. They get released because the studio will make money on it.