DS9 on blu ray?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by borgboy, Nov 28, 2013.

  1. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, it's an asset on the balance sheet, but in terms of cash flow, they might have to wait years to break even. Throwing another $40-50 million at DS9 and Voyager just isn't going to happen. People who want to watch those shows will do so anyway, and forking out the cash for a remastering job doesn't seem to attract new viewers. I'm just relieved TNG got done and looks as great as it does.
     
  2. IronMaiden

    IronMaiden Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    So what did they do for the enterprise blu ray?

    Did they still have the files for them that it was more easy to do?
     
  3. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Absolutely agree. :) TNG-R looks amazing, and is nothing less than a stellar achievement -- a night & day comparison. It's just such a shame that didn't translate to sales...


    Yeah, mistakes were definitely made. As much as I appreciated them myself, I do wonder if the decision to do 'movie length' editions of some of the two part stories as stand alone releases actually hurt sales of the season sets somehow, or at least blurred the budget figures by adding extra cost (the production of the discs) to minimum return. It seems to me like they flooded the market with product, using the age old sales strategy from the VHS/DVD days that the fans would buy them, but people weren't willing to take all these second and third bites of the cherry on Blu Ray. Which is a real shame, because the actual work done was amazing across the board.

    From what I've gathered, CBS kind of used predicted Blu Ray sales figures to nail down the budget of $20m, but the problem is that those sales never materialised as predicted. TNG-R will break even, eventually, but the Blu Ray sales will always have been disappointing. And that's why I doubt they'll commit to DS9 and VOY on Blu Disc. They might upscale them for HD broadcast and streaming purposes, but actual physical media disc releases seem unlikely at this stage.
     
  4. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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  5. King Bob!

    King Bob! The King of Kings Premium Member

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    Depends if one considers six months after release "quick".
     
  6. USS KG5

    USS KG5 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Enterprise was mastered in HD anyway, so the BD release was straightforward.
     
  7. Reeborg

    Reeborg Commander Red Shirt

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    For a 25 year old series that has been published on dvd many times before 6 months waiting is a very short period. I did not buy the BD immediately at release, I waited 6-12 months to get the much cheaper Italian version. Why to urge for an old series when you can save 70% on the release price? I guess for many others it was similar for the streaming service: Buy the first season BD and then wait for the much cheaper streaming availability. I find it complete nonsense to propose (timely) almost parallel BDs and streaming and then declare a disappointing turnover only by taking the numbers of BD sales (without including streaming).
     
  8. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    Or, they could spend nothing and stream them in SD like they are with all their other SD shows.
     
  9. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    They could, but it'll mark it as an old show in the minds of the audiences. Existing audiences would probably continue to watch, but new ones will be less likely to pick it up. Especially in SFX heavy shows like the Star Treks.
     
  10. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Then why are the effects shots upscaled? ;)
     
  11. Michael

    Michael *:・゚✧ . ゜・ Moderator

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    I do wonder about the conviction and certainty with which people proclaim these kind of things, when I don't remember any kind of official comment from CBS about TNG-R's performance. Even Robert Meyer Burnett surely never tweeted anything about TNG-R "bombing" or "backfiring". So where does all of this come from? I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong, but what makes you think you are right?
     
  12. Mage

    Mage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Appereantly, the filming was done in HD, but the CGI in SD, or atleast at first. So those were upscaled. And that's what would happen with DS9 aswell when it's a simple 'upscale' like that.
     
  13. USS KG5

    USS KG5 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I believe originally, the SFX were rendered in SD to save time, with the thought they would go back an re-render the same stuff later in 1080p when required.

    I guess by the time they had gone to proper HD across the board in season 4, the show was on its way to being cancelled, so the opportunity to re-render was never taken.

    Presumably, a lot of the CGI source files still exist, but for the Blu Ray release we got the rather disappointing upscales instead of anything being re-done.
     
  14. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    [yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHtfiIuBlO0[/yt]
     
  15. Joe_Atari

    Joe_Atari Commander Red Shirt

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    1000 times this.

    Lance, Frontier -- seriously; I know we're not talking about matters of life or death here, but every time a discussion comes up about what a future DS9-R project could look like or the circumstances under which it very well could happen, you shut it down with "It's gonna cost $20 million and TNG-R was a flop and CBS is a business and it's never gonna happen and deal with it." This is the kind of thing that gets Marc Cushman (rightly) slagged off for in his TATV books. Not that it's perfectly germane to a DS9-R project, but with respect could you please provide some objective sources for your information on the costs and performance of the TNG-R project (the BD portion of it will do)?

    As to the performance of TNG-R on BD, based on professional experience I can 100% promise you that CBS would never, ever gamble millions of dollars (and I personally think that $20 million figure is high) deficit financing a project like TNG-R on the backs of fans who will pay hundreds of dollars for action figures and model kits on the secondary market but won't pay a buck or two for an episode of a new series. Not in 2011 and not now. To do so would get any CBS exec laughed out of the room. And make no mistake, TNG-R on BD was geared primarily to the Trek fan base due to the very good but comparatively low-budget VAM. This is why BD was always an important but quite short-term portion of the TNG-R project. Various participants in the BD project (Burnett, the Okudas, et al) may subjectively deem it a "failure", but CBS have not lost money on TNG-R -- not by a long shot.

    I can only attribute much of what I read around here to fan self-importance, specifically this: "We (the fans) told CBS what we wanted from TNG-R, CBS delivered but had the unmitigated gall to charge $50-60 per season (strictly speaking CBS could mostly only control the admittedly inflated MSRP, not the street price but you get the idea), we told 'em to pound sand and showed them!" Of course that's still $2-2.50 per episode not counting the VAM; how reasonable that is is up to the individual customer, but it almost certainly reflected the cost of the project and CBS' sales expectations for the BDs.

    These guys aren't dummies. CBS know Trek fans talk out of both sides of their mouths. "You build it and we will come" isn't going to happen; it hasn't happened for decades. The current situation is the very embodiment of "This is why we can't have nice things." Everyone should spend their hard-earned money how they see fit of course, but they shouldn't think they're going to influence the future of Trek by spending it all on cosplay and turning up their noses at a new subscription-based streaming series. The fans don't matter, we don't matter, the mass market does, and the mass market's all about streaming right now, not BD. It also means more lowest-common-denominator action / adventure-oriented content at the expense of thought-provoking sci-fi, but that's a whole different story.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
  16. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm a fan and I think I'm representative of one group in that my attitude is "you build it and I'll catch it maybe on the streaming services I already pay for".
     
  17. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    How about the total lack of news about the remastering? Of course CBS isn't ever going to say something bombed. If it was successful or even broke even they'd be shouting from the rafters and moving forward with the next series.


    It's how PR works. That's how Hollywood works.
     
  18. CaptainStoner

    CaptainStoner Knuckle-dragging TNZ Denizen Admiral

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    TNG blue ray season one has amazon sales rank of 8000

    TNG blue ray 1-7 box set has amazon sales rank of 13,100

    That is a really high sales rank for movies - the 8,000 is in the top 1%!
    I don't know what they've sold so far, but it being holiday season, right this moment TNG blue ray is blowing up.
     
  19. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    They're probably overstocking that sucker, as they have been for a while with Amazon.
     
  20. CaptainStoner

    CaptainStoner Knuckle-dragging TNZ Denizen Admiral

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    Maybe so but sales rank that high means theyre selling like hotcakes