Dr. Gillian Taylor?

[beamMe]

That's another case of mistaking viewer interpretation for actual fact. What Spock actually said in the movie was that only 10,000 people escaped from Vulcan itself. The line, like Gillian's "vessel" line, was ambiguous enough to allow for two interpretations, but the actual intent, confirmed by the screenwriters themselves, is that Spock was referring only to the survivors from the planet itself, not to the total number of Vulcans left in the universe.

This is why it's important to question your preconceptions. Part of the skill of comprehending a text is being able to distinguish between what's actually stated and what you're reading into it. As well as distinguishing between the more and less probable interpretations of an ambiguous statement. The more probable interpretation of Spock's statement is that he was referring only to those who escaped the planet itself;

Only if you ignore the "endangered species" part of the voice-over. The writers' intend doesn't amount to anything if it is contradicted by what's actually in the film.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

And positing that Gillian is now fluent in a hypothetical bit of 23rd Century slang, which we've never heard anyone else in the entire franchise say, is - yes - an additional complication.

 

[Christopher]

And positing that Gillian is now fluent in a hypothetical bit of 23rd Century slang, which we've never heard anyone else in the entire franchise say, is - yes - an additional complication.

That doesn't make any sense. "See you around" is 20th-century slang. Gillian has just come into a future where civilization is interstellar, and she's speaking to a starship captain. In that context, it's perfectly plausible that she could've amended her own slang to fit the situation. Indeed, that's exactly what it sounds like to me. I did not for a minute intend to propose that "See you around the galaxy" is 23rd-century slang. Galaxy travel is so routine for them that they'd have no need to say it, any more than I'd need to say "See you around Earth" to you. It's the sort of thing that would only be said by someone to whom interstellar travel is a novelty worthy of comment. And in this particular case, there's the added subtext that Gillian was initially unconvinced that Kirk was actually from outer space. She was teasing him about his claims to that effect earlier in the picture. This is just the endpoint of that verbal interplay, an acknowledgment that, yes, he really does work in outer space.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

And positing that Gillian is now fluent in a hypothetical bit of 23rd Century slang, which we've never heard anyone else in the entire franchise say, is - yes - an additional complication.

That doesn't make any sense. "See you around" is 20th-century slang. Gillian has just come into a future where civilization is interstellar, and she's speaking to a starship captain. In that context, it's perfectly plausible that she could've amended her own slang to fit the situation. Indeed, that's exactly what it sounds like to me. I did not for a minute intend to propose that "See you around the galaxy" is 23rd-century slang. Galaxy travel is so routine for them that they'd have no need to say it, any more than I'd need to say "See you around Earth" to you. It's the sort of thing that would only be said by someone to whom interstellar travel is a novelty worthy of comment. And in this particular case, there's the added subtext that Gillian was initially unconvinced that Kirk was actually from outer space. She was teasing him about his claims to that effect earlier in the picture. This is just the endpoint of that verbal interplay, an acknowledgment that, yes, he really does work in outer space.

Oh, OK. That does make sense, then. But then, in that case, comparing it to "See you in the funny papers" is neither here nor there.

In any case, I still think an Oberth class in low Earth orbit with aquahuttle would be a very effective way to monitor the whales.

 

[Pavonis]

In any case, I still think an Oberth class in low Earth orbit with aquahuttle would be a very effective way to monitor the whales.

Why? Do you think they don't have satellites in the 23rd century? Why task a manned warp-capable ship with watching whales from orbit?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

In any case, I still think an Oberth class in low Earth orbit with aquahuttle would be a very effective way to monitor the whales.

Why? Do you think they don't have satellites in the 23rd century? Why task a manned warp-capable ship with watching whales from orbit?

We know it's a vessel, but what's the weather like on the surface of the ocean in the 23rd Century? How's the surf?

You say warp-capable like that's really a big deal; a photon torpedo is warp capable.

If there's something an Oberth can't scan for, and I'm Starfleet Command, then I'd want to know, because if it's anything that might crop up in a class M environment, then what the hell did I just send one to study the Genesis Planet for?

The whales are essential to the future of the Federation; if anything happens to those babies, you can kiss Earth goodbye. Therefore, if I were Starfleet Command, and cost were no object at all, I'd task the Excelsior to their safety. But since opportunity cost clearly exists at some point, I'd settle for a science ship, which presumably has some really kick-ass scientists aboard.

Evident idiots like Esteban and his bridge crew notwithstanding, if I'm Starfleet Command, and my Oberth fleet doesn't carry kick-ass scientists, I'd want to know.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The Federation should be making long term plans to ensure the survival of the species. That would include selecting planets where they could be settled. That's something that should be undertaken ASAP so that they can be transplanted as soon as they are ready.

How are the whales in danger in Earth's oceans? No one hunts whales in a world where replicators (or at least "food slots") supply everything humans need.

As northern humpbacks, George & Gracie are tied to Earth's northern hemisphere. Northern hemisphere humpbacks don't travel to the southern hemisphere. Would they cope being transplanted to an alien world's oceans?

Are you also going to infest an alien world with krill, too, or will the transplanted humpbacks be expected to eat local food?

Has Earth transplanted examples of every other lifeform to other planets too? Have we not learned the dangers of animals going feral in places they didn't evolve in? Has every UFP world also transplanted their animals and plants? It's gonna be a messy galaxy.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Evident idiots like Esteban and his bridge crew notwithstanding...

Only JT Esteban's extreme caution with Starfleet regulations saved Saavik, David and Young Spock from being killed by the Klingons' "lucky shot".

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Evident idiots like Esteban and his bridge crew notwithstanding...

Only JT Esteban's extreme caution with Starfleet regulations saved Saavik, David and Young Spock from being killed by the Klingons' "lucky shot".

OK, so he planned all that out?

 

[Therin of Andor]

OK, so he planned all that out?

Regulations are there for a reason.

 

[Pavonis]

In any case, I still think an Oberth class in low Earth orbit with aquahuttle would be a very effective way to monitor the whales.

Why? Do you think they don't have satellites in the 23rd century? Why task a manned warp-capable ship with watching whales from orbit?

We know it's a vessel, but what's the weather like on the surface of the ocean in the 23rd Century? How's the surf?

What does the aqua shuttle need with the Oberth, though? If it's going to fly back and forth to the surface, why not just fly back and forth between different points on the surface? All the sensors on a science vessel can be installed on a satellite, too, so what is the Oberth bringing to the study?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Why? Do you think they don't have satellites in the 23rd century? Why task a manned warp-capable ship with watching whales from orbit?

We know it's a vessel, but what's the weather like on the surface of the ocean in the 23rd Century? How's the surf?

What does the aqua shuttle need with the Oberth, though? If it's going to fly back and forth to the surface, why not just fly back and forth between different points on the surface? All the sensors on a science vessel can be installed on a satellite, too, so what is the Oberth bringing to the study?

It's providing an answer to the question, "What vessel is Gillian assigned to?" Sure it might be a sea-going vessel, but what if that's not the case? The dialog doesn't say what the vessel is, so how am I to know what it "really" is?

I said that I, too, filled in the blanks imagining it was an Oberth-class. I think that fits the facts perfectly well. An Oberth-class should be able to handle any contingency regardless of weather or anything else to study the whales, whereas a sea-going vessel could potentially run into some problems (storms? ice?). In my imagination, an Oberth-class brings the scientists, everything that is needed, all equipment, the whole shebang in one package, logistics solved, case closed.

 

[Pavonis]

I think 23rd century sea-going vessels can handle the weather just fine. What possible problems could they run into that we don't encounter regularly now?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

No canonical answer is forthcoming so this is all academic. We've pretty much everyone given our opinions, and there's nothing really to settle.

 

[doubleohfive]

No canonical answer is forthcoming so this is all academic. We've pretty much everyone given our opinions, and there's nothing really to settle.

Pretty much. Apart from Christopher's vigorous assertions, (which have been extremely detailed and obviously well thought out) there's nothing in the films or any of the following series or movies to establish anything one way or the other.

 

[Sci]

We know it's a vessel, but what's the weather like on the surface of the ocean in the 23rd Century? How's the surf?

What does the aqua shuttle need with the Oberth, though? If it's going to fly back and forth to the surface, why not just fly back and forth between different points on the surface? All the sensors on a science vessel can be installed on a satellite, too, so what is the Oberth bringing to the study?

It's providing an answer to the question, "What vessel is Gillian assigned to?" Sure it might be a sea-going vessel, but what if that's not the case?

I mean, yeah, she could potentially hypothetically maybe possibly be going to a starship. But what reason is there to think she is? All things being equal, isn't it simpler to interpret her line as referring to an ocean-going vessel than a starship?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

No, but see my last post. There's nothing to win here.

 

[doubleohfive]

Really, I don't understand though the persistent and insistent desire to convince everyone she HAD to have gone to a boat instead of a starship. Does it really matter, in the grand scheme of things?

 

[Pavonis]

This debate demonstrates who is amenable to reason and facts and who likes to argue for their position no matter how untenable and contorted their arguments need to be.

The simplest explanation is that she was going to a boat not a starship.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Next up: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin, settled in the Thunderdome.