Donny's Refit Enterprise Interiors (Version 2.0)
- Thread starter Donny
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Thanks, Dan. To be fair, I relied heavily on the models of my previous build as a reference, namely the weapon's console. I built higher-quality models over the old ones, correcting for an inaccuracies as I went along. So you could say this time around half the work had already been done. This may explain why I was able to get these done in 2 months. I think the first time around it took me about 3 just to do the TWOK version of the bridge.Amazing work @Donny , the quality of your finished renders and the speed in which you produce them are truly awesome to behold. It's been about 2 weeks and I'm still struggling with that tactical console haha
Hey, I have a question about your TOS project. When I modeled the Enterprise about 6 years ago I had trouble finding consistent blueprints. I've been feeling lately like revisiting the old girl and I was wondering what the best source of reference would be.
For my TOS Enterprise model, I found both Charles Casimiro's and Alan Sinclair's plans to be extremely accurate. I remember using both and checking them against images of the original model, but I'm not sure if I can recall who's I found to be more accurate. Anywho, I'd start with those and see which one you find to be more reliable.
For the future, let's try and keep any questions regarding my TOS project on the appropriate thread: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/donnys-tos-enterprise-interiors.212119/.
Thanks a lot. I would have asked in the TOS thread, but I didn't know if you'd want someone bringing that one to the top while this was the active project.
Oh, it's coming.Now that you're "off the bridge" I just found a quote from your other thread:
"So you're saying a TWOK era shuttle deck?"
Why do you think I'm getting docking ports modeled and then the Refit Exterior? I'd love to start on the flight deck/hangar/cargo bay right away, but I feel having an exterior model of the Refit done first will be wise so that I can make it all fit together seamlessly.
I’m going to need to upgrade to a Core i7 quad processor w/ 32 GB of RAM to run this if you ever release it, aren’t I?
Docking collar and docking port now complete as far as modeling is concerned. Here are some pics, sans textures:
On the left is the docking collar with doors, which will be affixed to the aft end of the travel pod and shuttle. On the right is the docking port with doors, which will be affixed to any ship/station models I create.
View from the docking port, looking at the approaching docking collar:
And here is the fully mated collar and port, with the hatchway opened. The collar doors slide into the bulkhead walls of the port:
Now that I've got that all worked out, I can begin modeling the Refit exterior. Having these modeled will aid in me making sure the scale of the Refit is just right.
On the left is the docking collar with doors, which will be affixed to the aft end of the travel pod and shuttle. On the right is the docking port with doors, which will be affixed to any ship/station models I create.
View from the docking port, looking at the approaching docking collar:
And here is the fully mated collar and port, with the hatchway opened. The collar doors slide into the bulkhead walls of the port:
Now that I've got that all worked out, I can begin modeling the Refit exterior. Having these modeled will aid in me making sure the scale of the Refit is just right.
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Of course! I'll be working on the female end of the docking port tonight, complete with door gripper mechanisms
Now I'm excited!
You know, I'd fiddled around with making the docking port a slight larger diameter than the collar to give it some wiggle room (like in the movie), but when I retracted the doors into the bulkheads, gaps out into space appeared at the top and bottoms of the collar which would cause dangerous decompression. Unless I restricted them opening to less than 3 feet wide and we clearly see them open more than that when Kirk and Scotty board the travel pod from the orbital office in TMP. The fact of the matter is that the screen-used model pieces of the travel pod and docking port were not constructed to be workable, so I had to take some license here and divert from screen-accuracy a bit to make a believable (and safe) docking port system.
I haven't look at it all yet in detail (will be doing so tonight), but I"m willing to bet money that Probert scaled the docking ports appropriately on the ship, given his meticulous attention to "making it all fit". However, due to the game-engine nature of my project, it's imperative I build everything on a grid. (I work on a centimeter grid, FYI). When placing things in-engine, it's easier if I can place, for example, the docking port models to the closest whole centimeter than place them at some arbitrary floating point number. Since the docking ports will be the access points from the exterior into the interior, and I build all my interiors on grid, I feel it's important to build the exterior model in a way that the docking ports can snap to the nearest grid unit. Which is why I wanted to nail down the docking geometry first. I'll most likely fudge what I need to to keep the Refit exterior to it's appropriate scale, but with all this done I can better figure out where exactly to place my docking ports, to the nearest centimeter.
I dunno if that makes any sense. Haha. I'll be doing initial scale tests tonight so we'll see how it goes! Unlike my TOS project, with this particular project I want to give extra care to make the interiors fit inside the exterior model. The Refit Enterprise and it's interior sets were all built with this in mind, whereas the TOS Enterprise was a different story (see the TOS Shuttlebay). Not to discredit the TOS E (because it's awesome and Jefferies was a genius), but the Refit is a much more believable, mechanically thought-out starship, and I intend to treat it that way.
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Yeahhhh. The fact that the hull is curved there really throws a wrench in things. I have an idea of how I’ll compensate but it’s gonna be a tough squeeze.
Even when I was 10 the specificity of this bugged me. "But! What if they go someplace that doesn't have that kind of a dock?!?"
Yeah. I imagine that all Starfleet auxiliary craft and stations of this era were mandated to have this standard docking setup, and indeed we see that the Vulcan craft Surak has been constructed to fit this specification. (Although we can infer that the Surak was a Vulcan construction of the standard Starfleet shuttlecraft of the era). But if they approach a vessel with an incompatible docking port, I assume that’s when they’ll simply opt for the more traditional route of using transporters or sending a shuttle.
MSGTTE states that docking ports were added to the refit to lessen the reliance of the more important shuttlebay and transporter machineries, therefore extending their mechanical lifespan. I know that the guide isn’t canon, but it makes sense. I surmise that docking ports are more of a luxury to be used near Starfleet bases and outposts when boarding is more frequent, and would be used less in deep-space or when dealing with incompatible alien tech.
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What about the Rec Deck, and the saucer rim, in general? At the 1000' scale, you've got the lower windows' bottoms at eye level, and the upper windows are almost resting on the floor. You can cram in the shuttlebay and cargo bay and have it look mostly-right even from the inside, even if a line-to-line recreation of the matte paintings is wider than the ship, but the saucer windows are a nightmare, as I found during my own attempt a refit-interior model.
I've had as a "someday" project a version of the TMP ship starting from the sets (and matte paintings) and working my way out, so the shapes are the same, but the windows, docking ports, and gridlines are rationalized. Given how varied they've been from the eight-footer on different models (the AMT kit, the TMP-DE model, a few others), I'd hoped the final differences would be fairly subtle. Unfortunately, I wanted to do something else first that needed the TMP ship as a prerequisite, so I locked myself into the 355 m scale. We'll see what happens.
But I digress, we want to know how you're going to handle this, not me.
If we want to bring later works into it, I'd imagine the saucer gangway is the more "universal" docking port that could adapt itself for any needed connection, same as it was used on the NX-01, and I also quite like ST09 implicitly and DSC explicitly retconning the standard shuttle docking port as being a longstanding format (though I'd guess that when Starfleet switched from the NX-style ports to the TMP version, there was just as much whining as when Apple switches to a new port on the iPhone). I know that TMP-ish ports were included on TNG-era ships, though we only saw the one on the -D used as a gangway, and the one on Voyager was either way too big or moderately too big, so I guess it was just circular for aesthetic reasons.
The most accurate version of the TOS Enterprise (as it most accurate to the original 11 foot model) can be found here - https://culttvman.com/main/a-modelers-guide-to-painting-the-starship-enterprise-by-gary-kerr/ on page 2. If you dig a bit you can find the 5000x2500 pixel images. I'm using them to redraw the exterior. I have some other sources as well. There are some significant differences from Casimiro and Sinclair. Art Covin did an excellent version based off the 1/350 kit, but these renders by Petri Blomqvist are based on Gary Kerr's hands on measurements.
I'm working on a set of TMP drawings as well to correct the many issues I've found with David Kimble's drawings. I've checked out Big Jim Slade's plans, but I feel he has made some mistakes in some things he has changed, but his drawings have the most detail. I'm working on the assumption that Richard Taylor's drawings are the basis for both the model and Kimble's drawings, but that Taylor made some further changes not reflected in his drawings. For one, the warp engines need to be moved town to correct the alignment to the pylon. Another, the ports and grid on the side of the secondary hull are all wrong. But the shape seems to be perfect, which if I'm right about the nature of the drawings makes sense.
I'm working on a set of TMP drawings as well to correct the many issues I've found with David Kimble's drawings. I've checked out Big Jim Slade's plans, but I feel he has made some mistakes in some things he has changed, but his drawings have the most detail. I'm working on the assumption that Richard Taylor's drawings are the basis for both the model and Kimble's drawings, but that Taylor made some further changes not reflected in his drawings. For one, the warp engines need to be moved town to correct the alignment to the pylon. Another, the ports and grid on the side of the secondary hull are all wrong. But the shape seems to be perfect, which if I'm right about the nature of the drawings makes sense.
