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Do you think the writers in voyager were closet sexists?

Janeway wasn't the lead character. Not in the same way Kirk was or Xena, Michael Knight or that dipshit kid from Smallville. The show didj't revolve around her. It was an ensemble series with a revolving focus which would routinely eclipse Mulgrew completely. The only reason Kate got top billings is because kathy was in charge.

It wasn't the Janeway Show.

Did Kate get paid that much more than the rest?
 
..and your opinion on the actual topic is??
It's in my posts, but if you insist: No, the writers weren't "closet sexists." There was a lot of incompetent writing on VOY, including wild inconsistencies in how Janeway was written. Because she was the first woman captain to lead a show, the timing of this writing blagh-ness was unfortunate, but that's it. Regardless of what the final product was like (and I certainly do my share of criticizing said final product), I don't think anyone involved wasn't trying their best to create strong, likable female characters, even if they didn't always succeed.

Except for the catsuit. No quarter given for the catsuit. :klingon:
Speak for yourself.
I did.
I said "most" not "all".;)
Fair enough.
And my point was... you could actually only name about five 'leading' characters- not just characters you liked. This is because strong women in leading roles are vanishingly rare. Which is why Janeway stands out as one of them.
I agree that strong leading woman are rare - much too rare, in fact.
I consider 9 out of 10 of them leading characters, Hit Girl being the only one that doesn't fit that bill. Again, you're headed into subjective land when you try to define "leading". Unless you want to define that term precisely and to set the goal posts so that your argument is undefeatable, go ahead - I just see no point in playing the subjective game.
Now waaaaaiiit a second... isn't the captain "the leading character" in Trek? Isn't that ALWAYS the case? Yes, TNG, DS9, and VOY are all ensembles. But if you had to pick one character who is "the lead character", if not the "main" character in a storytelling sense, wouldn't it be the captain? In EVERY Trek show?

There's "leading"; i.e. anyone who is part of the primary cast, and then there's "leading", meaning THE primary character. And using the second definition, only Ripley, Dunham, Scully, Buffy, and Xena qualify. Zoe isn't the "lead" on Firefly, Mal is. Leia isn't the "lead" in Star Wars, Luke is. etc etc.

I see what you are saying Bishop,and I still don't think comparing Janeway to an inevitably subjective list of other good female characters is going to result in anything except an argument about who is better than who, but there is a generally accepted definition of "leading role" or "leading character" as the single most main character if you have to pick one (there are some ensembles that truly don't have one single lead character, but Trek has never been that if you ask me; as I said above, it's always the captain).
Janeway wasn't the lead character. Not in the same way Kirk was or Xena, Michael Knight or that dipshit kid from Smallville. The show didj't revolve around her. It was an ensemble series with a revolving focus which would routinely eclipse Mulgrew completely. The only reason Kate got top billings is because kathy was in charge.

It wasn't the Janeway Show.

Did Kate get paid that much more than the rest?
I dunno... it kinda became "Star Trek: Janeway and Seven (and also the Doctor)" in the later seasons. Which, mind you, wasn't really a good thing, just sayin'. :lol:
 
There's no doubt the captains in each Trek series are a leading character, but they're not the only leading character. That's key in most shows/movies. Sure, if you have to pick one person as the main character of any given movie, my list doesn't hold up, but I don't feel that the term "lead" must be so rigidly defined. And again, we're back in subjective land.

It's easy to improve on the list I made - again, it was just a quick off-the-cuff example. Hell, replace Zoe with River and you have a character who I think fits the definition of "lead". And Sarah Connor had a show with her name in the title. It ran for two seasons... I'm gonna have to give her "lead" status, I think... But let's stop picking at nits, yes?
 




Both still in white but Padme shows off her stomach. Hurray for progress! You've come a long way baby!

It's funny because I don't even think that picture is anatomically correct. It looks like she's been entirely dissembled in Photoshop and then re-assembled. :lol: Or, at the very least, they airbrushed and or hand-painted the holy hell out of her stomach region while still stupidly leaving the rest of her skin texture intact.

How do those people who make movie promo posters keep getting work, lol
 
Let me hasten to add that I am and ever shall be a Star Wars fan and I worship at the altar of Padme who represents every fine, idealistic, strong woman who ever hooked up with an A-hole because she thought he was "sensitive".

But it aint no march on Washington.
 
I was amazed by the 1/2 hour of deleted scenes on the Attack of the Clones DVD which justified the character. Before this came to light, I was very hard on Padme comparing her to Eva Braun. Now I can't help but think there must be some sexist conspiracy defanging the former appointed politically princess' potency in favour of extended light sabre duels. (Nothing George ever makes will hold a candle to Inigo Montoya vs. The Dread Pirate Roberts.)

More women on top.

The new V, although awful, is Girl on Girl as far as the leading archetypes representing good and evil go. Lost Girl is about a Succubus and her sidekick kicking ass and taking names (The same production values/consistency as Highlander perhaps, if you haven't seen it yet.). Survivors a post apocalyptic BBC drama set about a week after the world ends from a virus which kills off 99 percent of the human race, has a remarkably strong female lead. Aeon Flux, nuff said. Tru Calling qualifies as much as Doll house or Sydney Bristow on Alias. Then of course there's Max in Dark Angel and Did you ever see Prey? Debra Messing as an Indiana Jonesian Anthopologist that notices that mankind had evolved producing an heir which needed to knock off Homosapiens before they could claim the Earth. Olivia Denim is easily the lead of Fringe, fricking Pacey is Lois Lane she rescues off the rail way tracks each week.

Was Family Guy right? Does no one but the gays in New York City watch True Blood? Anna Paquin's Sookie Stackhouse stands on top of a mountain of corpses who thought they were better than her. That show is all about strong characters going to war no matter if their genitals are on the inside or outside.

Season 8 of Stargate was called "SamGate" by some because MacGyver just said "fuck this" and gave the show to the hot blonde before the farscape people took over the following year. Speaking of the sublime Amanda Tapping: I do find Sanctuary Hit and Miss, but it's hits are quite palpable.

Gosh, I do go on.
 
There's no doubt the captains in each Trek series are a leading character, but they're not the only leading character. That's key in most shows/movies. Sure, if you have to pick one person as the main character of any given movie, my list doesn't hold up, but I don't feel that the term "lead" must be so rigidly defined. And again, we're back in subjective land.

It's easy to improve on the list I made - again, it was just a quick off-the-cuff example. Hell, replace Zoe with River and you have a character who I think fits the definition of "lead". And Sarah Connor had a show with her name in the title. It ran for two seasons... I'm gonna have to give her "lead" status, I think... But let's stop picking at nits, yes?
So hows about we use the word "starring" from the credits instead. Doesn't that define who the "lead" character is? If Mulgrew is in the "starring" role and the rest are "co-stars", thus making Janeway the "lead" character.
 
I'm just sick of repeating myself - my point ultimately is that everything about the argument is subjective and personal - I think Janeway stinks as a strong female role. Hell, I think Mulgrew's role in the Dragon Age games is a stronger female role. It's all opinion based subjectivity and clearly people here just aren't getting that, a handful like Guy and Saito aside.
 
The show itself couldn't make up its mind whether VOY was meant to be a tough ship or not. DS9 at least kept telling us that "The Defiant is small but really tough" by having it do stuff we SAW other Fed ships be unable to do.

What they needed to do was show other Fed ships getting kicked around by someone VOY could fight on an equal basis,
You mean like the Borg?:p
 
Wow, someones got a bad attitude.:wtf:
Agreed, but are you surprised.:sigh:

His lunacy knows no bounds. Except for his rabid and fanatical defense of that crap pile known as NuTrek, he has NOTHING good to say about anything Star Trek, or anyone that "dares" disagree with him. His negativity about anything other than NuTrek is tiresome and boring, which is why I ignore him
 
Wow, someones got a bad attitude.:wtf:
Agreed, but are you surprised.:sigh:

His lunacy knows no bounds. Except for his rabid and fanatical defense of that crap pile known as NuTrek, he has NOTHING good to say about anything Star Trek, or anyone that "dares" disagree with him. His negativity about anything other than NuTrek is tiresome and boring, which is why I ignore him
:guffaw:

I actually like NuTrek but the advice is as humorous as it is appreciated.

Thanks. :bolian:
 
The show itself couldn't make up its mind whether VOY was meant to be a tough ship or not. DS9 at least kept telling us that "The Defiant is small but really tough" by having it do stuff we SAW other Fed ships be unable to do.

What they needed to do was show other Fed ships getting kicked around by someone VOY could fight on an equal basis,
You mean like the Borg?:p

Something that wouldn't throw the audience into an incoherent rage...
 
Wow, someones got a bad attitude.:wtf:
Agreed, but are you surprised.:sigh:

His lunacy knows no bounds. Except for his rabid and fanatical defense of that crap pile known as NuTrek, he has NOTHING good to say about anything Star Trek, or anyone that "dares" disagree with him. His negativity about anything other than NuTrek is tiresome and boring, which is why I ignore him
:guffaw:

I actually like NuTrek but the advice is as humorous as it is appreciated.

Thanks. :bolian:

Yeah, that is one problem that if you ignore, it does go away.

BTW, Exodus...

While I am no fan of it and find the only thing I like about NuTrek is the FX, I really don't a burning hatred of NuTrek that I imply that I have. I just talk trash about Nutrek, because it seems to get his panties in a bunch and it amuses me when he has a spaz attack like he does. otherwise, I pretty much ignore what he has to say. :lol:
 
Agreed, but are you surprised.:sigh:

His lunacy knows no bounds. Except for his rabid and fanatical defense of that crap pile known as NuTrek, he has NOTHING good to say about anything Star Trek, or anyone that "dares" disagree with him. His negativity about anything other than NuTrek is tiresome and boring, which is why I ignore him
:guffaw:

I actually like NuTrek but the advice is as humorous as it is appreciated.

Thanks. :bolian:

Yeah, that is one problem that if you ignore, it does go away.

BTW, Exodus...

While I am no fan of it and find the only thing I like about NuTrek is the FX, I really don't a burning hatred of NuTrek that I imply that I have. I just talk trash about Nutrek, because it seems to get his panties in a bunch and it amuses me when he has a spaz attack like he does. otherwise, I pretty much ignore what he has to say. :lol:
:lol:
 
Ooh, a full frontal flame assault! I sure am the one looking like a lunatic now...
 
Yeah, quit with the personal attacks, guys.

Janeway's a strong female character. Whether there are other strong female characters is not in debate.
 
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