Do you think LGBT characters will feature more prominently?

[Guy Gardener]

Alexander the Great Conquered the world in the 4th century BC.

The entire (known) world!

(Cough)

No one told Lex about Russia, India, China, America or Australia.

But still, he thought that he had his thumb on almost everything.

KING OF THE WORLD!

There are more than than two genders now.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The 80s Trek novel Dwellers in the Crucible revealed that Klingon men have three testicles.
Since we're talking about Klingon junk.

It did? Though it being decades since I read it and I truthfully don't recall a thing about the book, I'm sure you're right.

 

[borgboy]

I read Dwellers in the Crucible sometime in the last year, so it's still fresh in my memory. There was a fair amount of frank mature content that's kind of surprising. The Klingon thing is something I wouldn't forget lol

 

[Amaris]

I read Dwellers in the Crucible sometime in the last year, so it's still fresh in my memory. There was a fair amount of frank mature content that's kind of surprising. The Klingon thing is something I wouldn't forget lol

Well, Margaret Wander Bonanno is one of my favorite Trek authors. Her works are generally more mature, more adult oriented, and most definitely worth reading (IMO). Strangers From The Sky is still one of my favorite Trek books of all time.

 

[borgboy]

I've read several of Bonanno's books and liked all of them. I've read her Pike novel twice. I know she has at least one book I haven't gotten to, her Saavik novel, which is in my stacks so I'll get to it eventually.
I did like Strangers from the Sky too.

 

[Nerys Myk]

She also posts here on occasion.

 

[ihno]

The alphabet soup thing is just unweildy, and it keeps changing. I consider myself to be PC, and I think for the most part, at it's best, PC is just politeness. I kind of like queer because it's so all encompassing, but not everybody is comfortable with that.
I've been openly gay for over twenty years and I've never seen it done as LGBTQIA. I've seen variations that used two Qs -one for queer, one for questioning. Including the I and A are relatively new.
I usually go with either gay (I'm so old that in my day gay pretty much meant everybody that wasn't standard heterosexual) or LGBT and my intention is that's meant to include everyone that wants to be included.

Out and proud for 26 years here.

I don't like "LGBT" and I don't use it. It's a new form of "sexual minorities" and it ignores the differences between the different groups and their subcultures (if they have some) and just munches them together. So it's very superficial. The groups have things in common but also special interests or problems.

If people want to adress the problems of gays, lesbians and transsexuals they can at least have the courtesey to use the proper words.

 

[rRico]

Maybe there are some misunderstandings here.

What you individually mean if you say "fuss" (or "just happens to be")?

Does "fuss" mean questions like "when did you find out you're hetero sexual?" "What did your parents say?"

or does "fuss" mean showing human relationships? Like some - slightly more conservative ones - who always feel offended, umimportant how little gayness is shown on the screen.

It's not unlike using the word "normal" - which can mean "standard" or "healthy" and a lot of other things.

I understand "not making a big fuss" as not talking about homosexuality as a phenomenon, which the writers might want to do to educate the audience.
But still showing relationships, which of course you can only do if you have more than one gay or lesbian character.

I want to see relationships between gay or lesbian characters. In the more "enlightened" society presented in Star Trek questions like the ones you brought up should no longer be relevant. Being hetero or homo should be treated as equally normal.

 

[rRico]

Except STB took such a subtle approach that there are people refusing to accept that that guy was even Sulu's husband, making the argument they were brothers. It clearly wasn't the intention, but I need my gay characters to be a little bit less subtle, especially when we're breaking new ground for Trek in diversity.
I seriously doubt Discovery will be that coy, and it shouldn't be. Gays should be treated normally, the same as everyone else, and that includes not pussyfooting around on partners showing affection, people openly discussing their love lives and interests.

You have a point here. Beyond indeed didn't make it very clear if you didn't know beforehand. What I meant was the reaction Kirk gave when he saw Sulu and his husband together. There was no obvious reaction, no double-take, no questioning look. For Kirk it is normal to this.
Gay couples should act just as straight couple have acted in Star Trek before.

Are you okay with seeing a same sex relationship? Star Trek is chock full of romances.

Only bigoted idiots wouldn't be okay with same sex relationships in Star Trek. So, yes!

You aren't the norm, you're just the majority and that doesn't make you special. Also do you know why some people are uncomfortable with their sexuality? It's because straight people for centuries have said they were the norm and everyone else was degenerate or lesser or alternate. The desire to be seen as normal is so powerful that many people will ignore who they are in a fruitless quest to fit in. That needs to change because straight people aren't the normal ones and never were. LGBT aren't suddenly showing up like we're mutants or the symptoms of a more liberal and tolerate world. We've always been here and always will be here, despite attempts to erase us from history.

So I really don't know what you mean when you say you'd prefer characters who just happen to be gay because it really feels like weasel words. You feel uncomfortable seeing gay people, maybe because you have issues of your own that you want to avoid. Is it like how Picard just happens to be French and Geordi happens to be blind or do you want them to completely ignore it and it just be a single paragraph of their wiki entry?

Not that it is relevant, like, at all, but you are telling this to a gay man.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Kirk's envious expression was "Why can't I have that?"

 

[Smoked Salmon]

"Keep the poofs out of Star Wars".

I putting that quote up because I was reading on a fan site today discussion of whether or not Poe and Finn should be a romantic couple. The amount of backlash against the idea was intriguing. Beyond was cited as an example of when it was "ok" to have a gay couple (i.e. seen and not heard).

Reason I mention it is that I'm wondering what qualifies as "ok"? If we are to accept gay couples as equals, why do we even have a debate about the extent of their presence in media?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Equals?

You so funny.

 

[Kemaiku]

Heterosexuality takes up a lot of screen hours of Star Trek, to the point of sexual tension between two bridge crew being used as a means of keeping the audience watching for years at a time. Entire episodes and seasons devoted to drama between two characters, love triangles, etc

There's 700+ hours of Trek, count up how much of that is opposite sex attraction, romance, tension, sex, flirting, etc and just doa tiny bit of math as to why 100% of it is cishet.

My immediate social circle is probably like 60-40 at best, quite a lot of the people posting in this *thread* are LGBT, it doesn't make sense to have a franchise with more air time than the majority of others never having one single healthy actual depiction in half a century.

 

[borgboy]

"Keep the poofs out of Star Wars".

I putting that quote up because I was reading on a fan site today discussion of whether or not Poe and Finn should be a romantic couple. The amount of backlash against the idea was intriguing. Beyond was cited as an example of when it was "ok" to have a gay couple (i.e. seen and not heard).

Reason I mention it is that I'm wondering what qualifies as "ok"? If we are to accept gay couples as equals, why do we even have a debate about the extent of their presence in media?

We debate it because of the people who don't accept gay people as equals. If the world were free of homophobes this thread wouldn't be necessary.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Hey Kemtrail, what about Odo?

Biolgicaly he is genderless, even though his gender was never questioned. Considering the difficulty he has making a nose, he's probably like a kendoll down there, if even that, since he's naked the whole time.

 

[borgboy]

Hey Kemtrail, what about Odo?

Biolgicaly he is genderless, even though his gender was never questioned. Considering the difficulty he has making a nose, he's probably like a kendoll down there, if even that, since he's naked the whole time.

Odo is naked, so yeah. We know he and the female Changeling have regular solid sex, so he surely simulates something down there when he wants to. She didn't seem all that impressed with the experience.
Then we see him have an intimate encounter with Kira where he basically looks like a golden shower - sorry, that's what it looked like - and she seemed to enjoy that.
I think it's odd that Odo has gender, but he was imitating the scientist who raised him. Then the female Changeling presents as female all the time. I think it would've made more sense if the Changelings were agender, and that human sex and romance were an alien concept to them. Of course, only Odo shows an interest in those things from what we see.

 

[Ensign]

I think it's odd that Odo has gender, but he was imitating the scientist who raised him. Then the female Changeling presents as female all the time. I think it would've made more sense if the Changelings were agender, and that human sex and romance were an alien concept to them. Of course, only Odo shows an interest in those things from what we see.

I never thought about that before. Just goes to show how used to the gender binary we are in this society.
It would have been so much cooler if they did what you suggest.

 

[ihno]

Didn't they do that?

The female Shapeshifter (I forgot which the in-universe racist word was ) had sex with Odo and said something like "so, that's how they do it? Bäh. Not how we do it. We are like waterdrops in the ocean and we take the form of solids we all have that odd face of yours, your know? How is that you can form a dog but not a face btw?" Or something like that.

 

[Kemaiku]

She chose to be female precisely because Odo identified male. It was a tactic to both relate to, and later control him. I doubt she gave the form or concept much thought beyond that.

 

[ihno]

She chose to be female precisely because Odo identified male. It was a tactic to both relate to, and later control him. I doubt she gave the form or concept much thought beyond that.

Yes.
If I remember she made it quite clear that she's not really a female.

She reminded me of my french teacher, who also wore brown often and had the same hairstyle.