Disney Scraps Plans For Further Star Wars Storys

[Marynator]

I don't recall Luke ever having any exposition set up how he knew how to fight Stormtroopers, and knows how to use his stolen little utility belt hook thingy to swing through chasms, and how he's experienced besting academy trained Imperial ace star fighter pilots?

Rey was fully explained, she's shown being a survivor and scavenger on a wild west type planet where she obviously has to fend for herself, so you know she obviously has to have survival skills since she's been making it on her own for so long. Most people don't need to be pulled aside and have every single little thing explained, right?

What's a problem is like how your rules are only being applied to female characters like Rey and not Luke.

 

[Kibbin]

All I can say is whoever those people are they are getting it wrong. I don't for a second believe those writers in any way resemble the character as written, nor is he an idealised version of anyone, he's defined by his flaws.

Comic book sites. Most of the ones I frequent use the term for the character. Now this bit may shock you but expecially for young readers the idea of being a bad ass unkillable, gruff loner who is a ninja and kills people with knives in his hands and almost always gets the girl but they are often taken away leaving him tragic and yet free and single for next week is a very desirable one indeed.

He fought him twice with no training in between. He lost the first time, won the second very convincingly.

You say won I say said please don't kill me I know you are still good and then looked sad and pathetic while getting a thousand volts up the ass until his dad took pity on him. Potato, tomato.

By your logic Sherlock Holmes is a very poorly written character. But then again, he's male.

He is, but then again the selling point is he mysteries that he went on more than the character. Unless your watching the Moffat version.

We meet Rey at a point where she's already developed a great many skills. That isn't poor writing, it's simply the character as presented at that point in her life.

And as I said. Things like her knowing machines, fixing the falcon and working the trap doors to stop the giant squids and save Finn are set up fine. I have no problem with no seeing her go to school and learning to read. I expect a character to come with some skills already at the table. You just have to let me know what they are before they come into play. When Bond gets his gadgets he doesn't keep them a secret and then pull them out to get himself out of a tight spot. We are told them at the start.

If you can't see how blatantly now you are applying the logic of your arguments selectively then all I can tell you is other people certainly are seeing it. You are illustrating the very point being made, where even if it subconsciously there's a massive cognitive bias towards accepting competence far more readily in a male lead than a female.

If people see me as rallying against women then fine. I can't control what people think of me. I can only present my case on why Rey is a poor character. I will try to do so the best I can and you can make your own judgement from that. Will I waffle, go off topic and make leaps in my mind that are not followed through with leaps in the conversation that will allow people to easily follow along with my train of thought. Most probably. Unfortunately that's just me and there's not much I can do about that.

 

[Kibbin]

I don't recall Luke ever having any exposition set up how he knew how to fight Stormtroopers, and knows how to use his stolen little utility belt hook thingy to swing through chasms, and how he's experienced besting academy trained Imperial ace star fighter pilots?

Rey was fully explained, she's shown being a survivor and scavenger on a wild west type planet where she obviously has to fend for herself, so you know she obviously has to have survival skills since she's been making it on her own for so long. Most people don't need to be pulled aside and have every single little thing explained, right?

What's a problem is like how your rules are only being applied to female characters like Rey and not Luke.

I have tried to explain how my "rules" apply to Luke. I have shown my thinking on why him being a pilot is fine in the same way that her being good at machines is fine. If there is a part of my argument where you think I haven't been consistent please let me know.
I know that t-16's are not the same as x-wings just as I know that broken at-at's are not the same as modded correlian freighters.
The little hook I think is explained somewhere as being for sand dunes. I never understood that much myself having never been anywhere sandier than a british beach. I don't have a problem with that as I feel that wasn't as crucial a part of the story as some of my problems with Rey. We can cut that scene and the film is fine. Luke and Leia run down a corridor, shake the storm troopers and meet hand at the hanger. You can't say the same for Rey fighting Kylo or her flying the Falcon.

 

[Jinn]

He is, but then again the selling point is he mysteries that he went on more than the character. Unless your watching the Moffat version.

In which case there is no selling point, other than the pure existence of Benedict Cumberbatch?

 

[Kibbin]

Do we need a line to establish every practical skill someone has, no matter how obvious or credible under the circumstances? Do we need film characters to start mentioning they have passed their driving test and learnt to cook once?
How was she not established in the film?

To me. If the plot hinges on it we need to establish it. If Rey is going to fix the coffee maker then don't set up that she's good with machines. If she is going to save Finn from being eaten by giant squids and she needs to operate the blast doors then set it up.
My problem with her as a fighter isn't her taking down some thug or rival scavenger it's taking down your main villain in a fight. Am I kind of making sense here? If she beat Kylo by rewiring the base to drop him down a giant shaft or activate some laser defense screens than you have set it up. But thus far she could be a middling fighter at best. Able to take down whoever you want on "desert planet" but now she's going to against someone who has trained and a Jedi and, I would say Sith but someone told me off for saying that a few posts ago so uh evil Jedi.

 

[BillJ]

I know that t-16's are not the same as x-wings just as I know that broken at-at's are not the same as modded correlian freighters.

I would imagine space flight and flying in an atmosphere are radically different. Yet, I've never heard anyone complain about Luke being put directly into an X-Wing fighter, even though we have no evidence he's ever been off of Tatooine.

 

[Tuskin38]

Rey beating Kylo in TFA wasn't a fluke. He was at a disadvantage.

 

[Kibbin]

Okay, this time I did some poor phrasing. When I compared Kylo to Gary and Vader to Giovanni I meant that more in terms of power level. Gary is the type of continuing barricade that appears again and again and Vader is the really powerful guy and in order to take down his Mewtoo you'll have to train a whole lot. Honestly, Vader is probably a more personal villain for Luke than Kylo is for Rey since he's his father.


Well, I would. The thing with the Mary Sue term is that it is often (not always, but often) used in sexist ways. Due to its roots in fan fiction it also carries a message other than "that character is poorly written and overpowered" and that is a direct comparison to a character from fanfiction wich is generally seen as a bit of an insult. Then there's the continual argument about wether Mary Sue means "self insert" or "overpowerd" or both which muddies the waters even further.

I think I'm going to take this slap on the wrist. But only this one mind. Using a fanfiction term to denote poor writing does give the impression that fanfiction is bad. It's a short hand and not always fair to some very good fanfic writers out there.
Having said that I'm still going to use it because unfortunately most fanfic is, objectively bad and it's a shame that some of the mistakes we're seeing average Joanna or Joe make after work or before school writing up something for fun is being put into play in major motion pictures.

 

[Jedi_Master]

She spends her days breaking down discarded Imp and New Republic tech, learning what parts connect to what and what parts are more important than others.
She is surrounded by hungry and desperate people, many who are far stronger and more durable than some human girl.
Oh, and she is Force Sensitive.

Why is it hard to imagine that she can do the things she does?

 

[Kibbin]

I would imagine space flight and flying in an atmosphere are radically different. Yet, I've never heard anyone complain about Luke being put directly into an X-Wing fighter, even though we have no evidence he's ever been off of Tatooine.

I'm going to get a lot of hate for this one. I know I am. I kind of think that's an aesthetic of the film. The ships never fly like space ships they fly like fighter planes. Now this was a choice by GL so it doesn't feel as obtrusive. At least to me.

 

[Jinn]

I think I'm going to take this slap on the wrist.

Hey, I'm strictly anti-violence

But only this one

Okay, seems like a good middleground

Having said that I'm still going to use it because unfortunately most fanfic is, objectively bad and it's a shame that some of the mistakes we're seeing average Joanna or Joe make after work or before school writing up something for fun is being put into play in major motion pictures.

Fair enough. I can't really stop you from using it, so yeah, go ahead.

 

[Spot261]

Comic book sites. Most of the ones I frequent use the term for the character. Now this bit may shock you but expecially for young readers the idea of being a bad ass unkillable, gruff loner who is a ninja and kills people with knives in his hands and almost always gets the girl but they are often taken away leaving him tragic and yet free and single for next week is a very desirable one indeed.

It's been a long time since I was that young, I want a little more from my fiction these days.

You say won I say said please don't kill me I know you are still good and then looked sad and pathetic while getting a thousand volts up the ass until his dad took pity on him. Potato, tomato.

I think it might be worth you rewatching the film.....he defeats Vader and refuses to kill him, then is tortured by the Enperor.

When Bond gets his gadgets he doesn't keep them a secret and then pull them out to get himself out of a tight spot. We are told them at the start.

Except how he can speak any language, can drive or pilot any vehicle, is master of any weapon, can use any device he's never seen before, is a mineralogist, botanist, economist, geologist, specialist historian and sociologist for any place he visits and basically has a mastery of any skill he ever needs...but let's be honest, as writers go Flemming was not Chaucer.

He is, but then again the selling point is he mysteries that he went on more than the character. Unless your watching the Moffat version.

Which by your definition is bad writing.

 

[BillJ]

I'm going to get a lot of hate for this one. I know I am. I kind of think that's an aesthetic of the film. The ships never fly like space ships they fly like fighter planes. Now this was a choice by GL so it doesn't feel as obtrusive. At least to me.

So you've come up with something in your head to make up for an obvious shortcoming of the story? Why not make the same allowances for female characters that you have no trouble making for a male character?

They are movies at the end of the day.

 

[Campe]

To me. If the plot hinges on it we need to establish it. If Rey is going to fix the coffee maker then don't set up that she's good with machines. If she is going to save Finn from being eaten by giant squids and she needs to operate the blast doors then set it up.

She’s shown to be a tinkerer, scavenging from the remnants of the Battle of Jakku. I don’t need the handholding to see her operate a blast door to know she could probably figure it out. Just like I can accept the fact that Luke can fly an X-Wing if he can fly a T-16, because I’m told he’s a good pilot. Just like I can accept the fact that Rey is a pilot and knows the terrain of Jakku. Because I’m told she is. And because she shows us her geographical knowledge. This is all set up.

 

[Spot261]

To me. If the plot hinges on it we need to establish it. If Rey is going to fix the coffee maker then don't set up that she's good with machines. If she is going to save Finn from being eaten by giant squids and she needs to operate the blast doors then set it up.
My problem with her as a fighter isn't her taking down some thug or rival scavenger it's taking down your main villain in a fight. Am I kind of making sense here? If she beat Kylo by rewiring the base to drop him down a giant shaft or activate some laser defense screens than you have set it up. But thus far she could be a middling fighter at best. Able to take down whoever you want on "desert planet" but now she's going to against someone who has trained and a Jedi and, I would say Sith but someone told me off for saying that a few posts ago so uh evil Jedi.

Are we seriously going to make this about power levels?

Are you still not seeing the bias in your arguments?

 

[Steven P Bastien]

My problem with her as a fighter isn't her taking down some thug or rival scavenger it's taking down your main villain in a fight. Am I kind of making sense here?

I think you are making sense and different people are going to have different points of view. But, again I think the issue is more with Kylo than with Rey. Their fight is not the only place where Kylo is shown to be relatively weak. I think it can all be justified or explained away, but he seems like the high-school nerd getting berated by a teacher, a football player and the pretty girl that sits in front of him. It's not clear how he jumps from "punching bag" to "supreme-leader" so fast.

Anyway, there is more than one way to criticize some of the happenings. Certainly, it's not flawless.

 

[Campe]

I think you are making sense and different people are going to have different points of view. But, again I think the issue is more with Kylo than with Rey. Their fight is not the only place where Kylo is shown to be relatively weak. I think it can all be justified or explained away, but he seems like the high-school nerd getting berated by a teacher, a football player and the pretty girl that sits in front of him. It's not clear how he jumps from "punching bag" to "supreme-leader" so fast.

Anyway, there is more than one way to criticize some of the happenings. Certainly, it's not flawless.

Exactly this.

 

[Jinn]

Are we seriously going to make this about power levels?

I will! Vance Astro has an intelligence rating of 3, making him smarter than Wolverine by one point. He however lacks Wolvie's strength and durability, lagging two and one point(s) behind, respectively. Their speed is equal at two and while Logan outdoes Vance by 2 in the fighting skill department (even having the maximum 7 points) Vance still has an impressive 5 and a 4 energy projection rating, surpassing Wolvie's boring 1 by three! In total the Big W gets 20 points while Vance "My entire life is a joke on my expense" Astro only gets 19. Well, now I'm disappointed and will watch Doctor Who!

 

[BillJ]

I think you are making sense and different people are going to have different points of view. But, again I think the issue is more with Kylo than with Rey. Their fight is not the only place where Kylo is shown to be relatively weak. I think it can all be justified or explained away, but he seems like the high-school nerd getting berated by a teacher, a football player and the pretty girl that sits in front of him. It's not clear how he jumps from "punching bag" to "supreme-leader" so fast.

My take is that Kylo Ren still hasn't completely given himself over to the Dark Side. He is conflicted, which expresses itself through his abilities.

 

[Spot261]

I will! Vance Astro has an intelligence rating of 3, making him smarter than Wolverine by one point. He however lacks Wolvie's strength and durability, lagging two and one point(s) behind, respectively. Their speed is equal at two and while Logan outdoes Vance by 2 in the fighting skill department (even having the maximum 7 points) Vance still has an impressive 5 and a 4 energy projection rating, surpassing Wolvie's bring 1 by three! In total the Big W gets 20 points while Vance "My entire life is a joke on my expense" Astro only gets 19. Well, now I'm disappointed and will watch Doctor Who!

I'll film myself prowling around topless and saying "bub" a lot with sideburns if it makes you happy?