Discovery ending with Season 5

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by The Habs Fan, Mar 2, 2023.

  1. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    It was just to point out your potential hypocrisy. If you can admit NuKirk is a Mary Sue then great. But then it begs the question: How can you be okay with any version of Kirk but not be okay with Burnham?

    You also didn't address my other points, just the one that you thought gave you an upper-hand, so I'll repeat: Fucked up and got her Captain killed, then sent to prison? Check. Rightfully or wrongfully blamed for starting a war? Check. Then has to spend the rest of the first season trying to prove herself? Check. That's not what happens with Mary Sues.

    Tell me how I'm wrong about any of that. I'll take a non-answer as acknowledgement that you think I have a point but can't admit it. in order to maintain appearances.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2023
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  2. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, and I'm calling your bluff...
    Go on, please. Let's have it.
     
  3. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This could possibly be its own thread or taken to DMs
     
  4. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    Save the mini-moderating. I used to be a moderator myself. I know what I'm doing.
     
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  5. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sure. Go on being wrong. It's all in your own time and it's funnier because you're doing it publicly.

    Brilliantly said.
     
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  6. XCV330

    XCV330 Premium Member

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    It's been proven over and over that Burnham was in many of the same situations as other star trek characters and did not get the same treatment. Burnham, however had an unforgiveable blackness and there were certain fans, who I will politely call fucking closet racists, who could not let that go, whether they liked it or not. Not everyone who disliked Burnham's character fit the description, but don't be so disingenuous to pretend it's not real. Present company excepted, of course. :rolleyes:
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And finally, what author insert is the Burnham? That's always my curiosity.

    Agreed. I looked at my calendar and felt I was back in 2018 again.

    Happy Pie Day everyone!
     
  8. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Tom Baker be like "Yo!"
     
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  9. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commodore Commodore

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    This describes Burnham in S2-4.

    This describes Burnham in S1.

    Even there was no intent for her to become a Mary Sue, Burnham became a Mary Sue.
     
  10. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    Then talk about Seasons 2-4.

    And talk about how it's not a problem in any other Star Trek series, but somehow is a problem in DSC. Why this one series and none of the others?
     
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  11. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Also describes, Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway etc
     
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  12. Commander K

    Commander K Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It doesn't describe any of them, that's absurd. The only other leading character to do this is Mariner in Lower Decks and that is meant to be intentionally slapstick and satirical.

    Others you mention had a natural growth evolved over seasons of television. Shatner gets put in that bracket simply because people blur the lines between James Kirk and William Shatner (who can come across as arrogant as a person).
     
  13. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commodore Commodore

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    Did the audience have trouble suspending disbelief with Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway?
     
  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Kirk:
    trauma history-check.
    made a mistake that he thought was his fault and killed his captain-check
    considered one of the best captains by his peers? Check.
    Wish fulfillment character? Check.

    Kirk is a Mary Sue.
     
  15. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    Rose-Tinted Nostalgia Glasses at their rosiest.

    Sisko was a God whose birth was arranged by the Prophets. He made first contact with the Dominion, was pivotal in the war, stopped an invasion simply because he was The Chosen One, a.k.a. The Emissary, and then fought Dukat in a battle to the death in Fire Caves as Good vs. Evil, and then promised -- like Christ -- that he'd be back.

    Captain Picard, single-handedly chosen by the Borg to be a companion to The Borg Queen and chosen to be assimilated to oversee the attack on the Federation. K'Mpec turned to Picard and made him the Arbiter of Succession when determining who the next leader of the Klingon High Concil would be. The Q Continuum decided to deny Humanity existence and put Humanity on trial for its savagery. Who's chosen to represent all of Humanity? Picard.

    Finally, Kirk himself. In the movies alone, he saved Earth twice, once in TMP and once in TVH, and saved the President of the Federation in TUC. He was chosen as The Person to reach out to the Klingons. Because if they sent Kirk, they it meant they were serious. Subsequently referred to as a legend in Star Trek that takes place after it.
     
  16. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    Nice dodge when I asked you for specifics. Answer the question I asked you earlier. What specifically makes her a Mary Sue in Seasons 2-4 and tell me why those reasons are a problem in DSC but not in other series.
     
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  17. Commander K

    Commander K Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Absolutely agree with you, she didnt evolve and she developed into something completely different. The showrunner is much to blame. The set up originally was a character we were to despise for effectively killing her captain and hopefully as seasons went on she to would redeem herself and become likeable (perhaps like where Shaw is going) but they turned her into someone who becomes less likeable as seasons went on. It was almost a given there would be an eye rolling moment where the triptych of Burn Cries/Burnham whispers/Burnham figures everything out-for-everyone would come as season passed. Was harder to empathise with her cause(s).
     
  18. Commander K

    Commander K Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I would also argue Discovery was star trek in name but not in traditional storytelling of past treks but followed more contemporary soap-dramatic storytelling based around one character, it had the NuKirk cinematic tropes I mentioned earlier.
     
  19. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    Sisko. "Sacrifice of Angels".
    Picard. "All Good Things".
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Jim Kirk.

    "Once again we have saved civilization as we know it."