Discovery and "The Orville" Comparisons

[Tesophius]

What's noteworthy is that the Orville, as far as I can see, is attracting a non Trekkie audience, I know at least a few people who aren't into SciFi and are enjoying it. While STDs desperate attempts to attract Walking Dead/GOT fans hasn't paid off, I know quite a few of these sort of fans and not one has even bothered to watch the pilot episode, despite my recommendations.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

You gotta wonder if STD woulda been a better idea if it was simply called Discovery, and not a trek show.

I mean, as great as it can be having Star Trek attached to your program, it also comes with a lot of weight, and baggage.

Orville has none of that weight or baggage, it's free to rip what it wants, and disregard when it wants, Discovery? gotta be much more careful.

 

[The Habs Fan]

I've actually noticed a few of my Facebook friends who aren't Trekkies at all posting about Discovery so I'd say it has managed to attract a new fan base. Part of that might be that in Canada it's on television, not a streaming service.

 

[Tesophius]

You gotta wonder if STD woulda been a better idea if it was simply called Discovery, and not a trek show.

I mean, as great as it can be having Star Trek attached to your program, it also comes with a lot of weight, and baggage.

Orville has none of that weight or baggage, it's free to rip what it wants, and disregard when it wants, Discovery? gotta be much more careful.

I thought so too, although I probably would have given up on the show by now if it wasn't part of the StarTrek franchise. So yes and no...

 

[alex08060]

Orville fans are just comparing it with discovery just to generate interests on their comedy. Going to be a dead end like Ted 2.

 

[mos6507]

didn't in any way make things better as it just radicalized all the people who lost their families on that ship.

Wrong. They were already radicalized and the children would have been indoctrinated anyway. At the very least, they stopped the bomb from going off, and saved more lives than had to be lost overall.

They avoided having a Kirk "big speech" to try to transform hearts and minds, which, in my book, makes it a bit more realistic than a show whose mission statement is to be uplifting would be predicted to go.

Most of the moralistic whining about this is of the same flavor that spends a lot of time complaining about drone warfare but doesn't really offer a viable solution. It's a lot easier to back-seat drive and shoot down hard decisions than to have to make them yourself.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Orville fans are just comparing it with discovery just to generate interests on their comedy. Going to be a dead end like Ted 2.

I have disagreements with many Orville fans over the quality of the drama of the show, and it's prime driving mechanism being comedy.

I think the vast majority of the people I've disagreed with just genuinely love the Orville, and aren't comparing it to discovery with some sort of nefarious motive. They just like the show. And though I disagree with the comparison ( honestly I think discovery is better compared to the Netflix Marvel shows ) It was naturally bound to happen

 

[alex08060]

Camparing any Star Trek to Orville is just a disgrace, Orville is nothing but a fan film paid for by fox.

 

[Jadeb]

I have disagreements with many Orville fans over the quality of the drama of the show, and it's prime driving mechanism being comedy.

I think the vast majority of the people I've disagreed with just genuinely love the Orville, and aren't comparing it to discovery with some sort of nefarious motive. They just like the show. And though I disagree with the comparison ( honestly I think discovery is better compared to the Netflix Marvel shows ) It was naturally bound to happen

I just like it. Does the comedy always land? No, but it's better than I expected. It's a fun homage by a dedicated Trek fan. It's not up there with the best of Trek for me, at least so far, but I've been enjoying it more than Discovery. Hopefully that will change, but it is what it is.

 

[mos6507]

I'm blown away by how many ultra conservative Trek fans there are.

I think that's due to two things.

1) Lots of older Trek fans who, as the cliche' goes, shift to the right with age. They still classify as Trek fans but their politics has slid down a slippery slope without them realizing it.

2) The right-wing fans tend to gravitate towards DS9. DS9 tended to be more right-wing friendly via the war storyline and moral ambiguities.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I just like it. Does the comedy always land? No,

I'm a bit of a MacFarlane fanboy,

his humor lands with me everytime. I'm probably a little ridiculous about it but I don't think there was a joke or gag on Orville so far that I didn't love.

 

[Jadeb]

I'm a bit of a MacFarlane fanboy,

his humor lands with me everytime. I'm probably a little ridiculous about it but I don't think there was a joke or gag on Orville so far that I didn't love.

I'm not so keen on when they go for the joke at the expense of suspension of disbelief, like in some of the bridge scenes. But some of the funny stuff has been very funny. Even the silly stuff like the confusion over whether hailing frequencies were really open. That was well observed, I thought.

 

[Tesophius]

Camparing any Star Trek to Orville is just a disgrace, Orville is nothing but a fan film paid for by fox.

So far STD has yet to earn the privilege of being "any Star Trek" - it almost got there with the last episode, but The Orville has a better track record of solid entertainment to-date. We'll see if that changes.

I don't have stock in either show, I'm just judging and comparing them as objectively as I can.

 

[mos6507]

2. If the Orville get a second season, CBS will sue.

The "we're not worried about a lawsuit" attitude is positively Axanar-grade, isn't it?

Supposedly Patrick Stewart and Scott Bakula will be making appearances. It also makes use of several ex-Trek people behind the scenes.

On top of this, all CBS needs to do is see where the Orville fan discussions are centered. Take a look at this thread. It's a Trek forum, not a newly formed Orville forum. Orville's core fanbase are Trek fans.

It really does ride on the very finest of lines as far as lawsuits go. It's kind of like this phenomenon.

I like Orville--but that's because I (like most of us) watch it as a proxy for Star Trek. It's Discovery counter-programming. At the same time, there's something sleazy about emulating something and then sitting back cockily and saying "nah, they'll never sue us". Well, why poke the tiger in the first place? It's artistically lazy to replicate something and then just change a few things to try to insulate yourself from lawsuits.

Galaxy Quest was a different story because it was a loving parody ala Young Frankenstein and it at least had the innovation of the meta-framing device. The Orville's insertion of humor is not really enough of an innovation for it to feel like its own thing, IMHO.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

So far STD has yet to earn the privilege of being "any Star Trek" -

It's star trek whether you like it or not, it doesn't "earn" a "privilege" of being star trek, it purchases the right to be, maybe it earns a privilege of being liked or well received, but it doesn't "earn" a privilege of being Star Trek, it is because it is.

 

[Mechanoid1]

I've seen two people knocking down DSC by calling it a GOT wannabe... seriously do you even watch the show?

The only thing about DSC and GOT is Gammora one of the bridge officers.
If anything GOT and Orville are futuristic comedies with much more in common.
He'll DSC is dark and now fowl mouthed, truly boldly going where no Star Trek has gone before.

 

[mos6507]

It's star trek whether you like it or not, it doesn't "earn" a "privilege" of being star trek, it purchases the right to be, maybe it earns a privilege of being liked or well received, but it doesn't "earn" a privilege of being Star Trek, it is because it is.

Legally speaking, you're correct.

We're talking about head-canon, though. It's really up to the fan to buy in to changes in continuity. If fans don't buy it, they clock out and walk away. So you can pull out copyright law and say "hey, this is Trek because the law says so" it's meaningless. It's all wrapped up in people's suspension of disbelief.

(I mean, as far as my head-canon go, most if not all of Trek V didn't happen, because it was awful, and add in Spock's Brain as well.)

That is why Star Wars fans accused George Lucas of raping their childhoods and that is why the Kelvin timeline divided the fanbase into angry factions and that is why the conflict is continuing with Discovery.

You just can't legislate people's imaginations. Rejecting part of the "official" offerings is really a defense mechanism people employ to hold onto their collective concept of the imaginary world.

 

[starmike]

So far STD has yet to earn the privilege of being "any Star Trek" - it almost got there with the last episode, but The Orville has a better track record of solid entertainment to-date. We'll see if that changes.

I don't have stock in either show, I'm just judging and comparing them as objectively as I can.

Using "STD" doesn't really sound objective.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Legally speaking, you're correct.

We're talking about head-canon, though. It's really up to the fan to buy in to changes in continuity. If fans don't buy it, they clock out and walk away. So you can pull out copyright law and say "hey, this is Trek because the law says so" it's meaningless. It's all wrapped up in people's suspension of disbelief.

That is why Star Wars fans accused George Lucas of raping their childhoods and that is why the Kelvin timeline divided the fanbase into angry factions and that is why the conflict is continuing with Discovery.

You just can't legislate people's imaginations.

I would argue that the fanbase has already been divided into angry factions since TNG premiered. Or maybe even when the Wrath of Khan was released. What's happening now is nothing new. What's new is now people have an outlet to air their perceived grievances.

As an aside, I wonder how this forum would have looked when DS9 premiered. I bet there would be a Babylon 5 vs DS9 thread.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Legally speaking, you're correct.

We're talking about head-canon, though. It's really up to the fan to buy in to changes in continuity. If fans don't buy it, they clock out and walk away.

They can check out all they want, it's canon and trek whether they like it or not. If trek starts up at a later date then it's apart of whatever restart they do.

You're point about Lucas makes my point, when all the whining was done, it just is what it is. What Lucas did was SW whether fans liked their "childhoods raped" or not. To this day it's still canon and it IIIISS star wars.

I think you're confusing the idea that people like it or not with it being called "star trek"

Most everyone seems to accept it as trek and just debate whether it sucks or not.