Ooh, this is fun
1. Picard
2. Kirk (The Original)
3. Kirk (Kelvin)
4. Mercer
5. Sisko
6. Janeway
7. Archer
8. Burnham
Discovery and "The Orville" Comparisons
- Thread starter Jedi_Master
- Start date
Ooh, this is fun
1. Picard
2. Kirk (The Original)
3. Kirk (Kelvin)
4. Mercer
5. Sisko
6. Janeway
7. Archer
8. Burnham
Ummm.... I think you did
Who's this "Mercer" person? Someone from the novels?
One of the better Star Trek captains
Seaman 2nd class Burnham does not count.
From Orville
Triggered from YouTube comments? Oh dear.
When I first saw trailers for The Orville, I thought to myself that the show just looked like some silly sitcom in space, and that it would probably be too silly to laugh at.
When I saw people comparing it to an actual Star Trek show like Discovery, I thought the comparison was idiotic.
I admit: I was really really wrong.
I was wrong about both it's value, and it's intention.
The Orville isn't trying to be a comedy. It's trying to be a weekly episodic sci-fi drama of the kind we haven't had since Stargate ended. It explores issues no less important than Star Trek, or Stargate SG-1, used to, including ethics, decency, compassion, realism, nature vs. nurture, the value of individuality, even humour.
It's just that people are so distrustful of earnest entertainment these days that it literally has to be sold as a comedy to make it on air. The false perception is that a show cannot be deep without being a really dark drama; but as you learn with maturity, and any writer worth a damn will tell you, the value of a drama is in no way correspondent to it's levity or optimism. The finest, most uncompromising, dramas of the last three decades were often also hilarious; Joss Whedon's works explore themes that are frankly far darker than most of what makes it on TV even today. They are still studied academically. They contained a ton of satire and comedy. Writers of the most cutting edge literature will tell you as much. There is a reason that Terry Pratchett is highly regarded by authors, or that JRR Tolkien gave us an epic that had plenty of light-heartedness along with it's darkness.
Seth MacFarlane clearly loves TNG. He wants to make TNG. But he is known for comedy, and networks probably thought marketing his show as a pure comedy was more appealing, or else Seth MacFarlane fooled networks that The Orville was a pure comedy, much as TOS sneaked controversial themes past cultural censors.
People in the United States know about Doctor Who; Britain's long-running chief of TV science fiction shows, which corresponds to the primacy of Star Trek in America. But few Americans probably know that there is an equally beloved and amazing decades long science fiction show in the UK: Red Dwarf. It isn't just a comedy, its been noted by many people that it's a pretty epic (and surprising hard) science fiction drama in it's own right. It got progressively better and better as it went along (by season 6, it had amazing pacing and scripting). Some episodes are honestly amongst the most imaginative and scientifically literate stories that made it onto TV at the time, almost like concepts out of literary sci-fi.
The value of a drama is in no way determined by how many rapes or religious burnings or genocides occur, or necessarily by how many ethically dubious actions characters are forced to take, and everything to do with the humanity and honesty of the show, and how much it reveals about our reality and condition as a species. I have nothing against violence at all, but consider: A a really heinous piece of violence on camera: it's emotive, shocking in it's blatantness, perhaps enraging, perhaps depressing, but it does not reveal anything more than any other piece of cruelty, and isn't needed to explore the nature of violence or prejudice or hate, or the condition of people at war, or explore how they divided by differences they can't seem to overcome.
The Orville is in fine company as a light-hearted yet serious look at issues that seem simple yet are still at the heart of our politics. The episode on gender, many people may find prosaic, but I found very timely. Believe me, there are many people in our society still, who feel, or are made to feel, that their very existence and individuality is an affront to normalcy, and are in dire need of the ability to love themselves for what they are. These are not simple themes.
When I saw people comparing it to an actual Star Trek show like Discovery, I thought the comparison was idiotic.
I admit: I was really really wrong.
I was wrong about both it's value, and it's intention.
The Orville isn't trying to be a comedy. It's trying to be a weekly episodic sci-fi drama of the kind we haven't had since Stargate ended. It explores issues no less important than Star Trek, or Stargate SG-1, used to, including ethics, decency, compassion, realism, nature vs. nurture, the value of individuality, even humour.
It's just that people are so distrustful of earnest entertainment these days that it literally has to be sold as a comedy to make it on air. The false perception is that a show cannot be deep without being a really dark drama; but as you learn with maturity, and any writer worth a damn will tell you, the value of a drama is in no way correspondent to it's levity or optimism. The finest, most uncompromising, dramas of the last three decades were often also hilarious; Joss Whedon's works explore themes that are frankly far darker than most of what makes it on TV even today. They are still studied academically. They contained a ton of satire and comedy. Writers of the most cutting edge literature will tell you as much. There is a reason that Terry Pratchett is highly regarded by authors, or that JRR Tolkien gave us an epic that had plenty of light-heartedness along with it's darkness.
Seth MacFarlane clearly loves TNG. He wants to make TNG. But he is known for comedy, and networks probably thought marketing his show as a pure comedy was more appealing, or else Seth MacFarlane fooled networks that The Orville was a pure comedy, much as TOS sneaked controversial themes past cultural censors.
People in the United States know about Doctor Who; Britain's long-running chief of TV science fiction shows, which corresponds to the primacy of Star Trek in America. But few Americans probably know that there is an equally beloved and amazing decades long science fiction show in the UK: Red Dwarf. It isn't just a comedy, its been noted by many people that it's a pretty epic (and surprising hard) science fiction drama in it's own right. It got progressively better and better as it went along (by season 6, it had amazing pacing and scripting). Some episodes are honestly amongst the most imaginative and scientifically literate stories that made it onto TV at the time, almost like concepts out of literary sci-fi.
The value of a drama is in no way determined by how many rapes or religious burnings or genocides occur, or necessarily by how many ethically dubious actions characters are forced to take, and everything to do with the humanity and honesty of the show, and how much it reveals about our reality and condition as a species. I have nothing against violence at all, but consider: A a really heinous piece of violence on camera: it's emotive, shocking in it's blatantness, perhaps enraging, perhaps depressing, but it does not reveal anything more than any other piece of cruelty, and isn't needed to explore the nature of violence or prejudice or hate, or the condition of people at war, or explore how they divided by differences they can't seem to overcome.
The Orville is in fine company as a light-hearted yet serious look at issues that seem simple yet are still at the heart of our politics. The episode on gender, many people may find prosaic, but I found very timely. Believe me, there are many people in our society still, who feel, or are made to feel, that their very existence and individuality is an affront to normalcy, and are in dire need of the ability to love themselves for what they are. These are not simple themes.
Last edited:
6.6 and 4.1 million for episode 2 and 3 are all live + same day ratings.
https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/the-orville-season-one-ratings/
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-final-ratings-sept-17-2017/
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/thursday-final-ratings-sept-21-2017/
Yes, I know that those are live + SD ratings. What really matters for renewal are still the C3 ratings. They say how many people watched the commercial live or in the next 3 days. They are rarely published, but the live + SD ratings are generally very close to their number. So better look at them and compare them to other live + SD ratings of series on the same channel when it comes to renewal or cancellation.
If you only want to know how many people watched the show in the USA, then the live + 7 ratings are of course better but still lacking. They only count people between 18 and 49 years of age. Those ratings also don't include people who watched the show via DVR after 8 or more days. They also don't include some streaming services like watching it on the FOX site or via iTunes and Amazon. Some streamings on Hulu are counted by Nielsen now, but not all. And of course no one knows how many people watched The Orville in an illegal way.
For anyone interested these ratings / viewers were published:
episode --- live + SD --- live + 3 --- live + 7
1 --- 2.71 / 8.558 mio --- 3.5 / 11.3 mio
2 --- 2.17 / 6.631 mio --- 2.8 / 8.415 mio --- 3.1 / 9.054 mio
3 --- 1.10 / 4.053 mio
4 --- 1.05 / 3.698 mio ------------- ? ------------- 2.1 / 6.811 mio
5 --- 0.90 / 3.431 mio
6 --- 1.00 / 3.371 mio
Unfortunately there aren't always live + 3 and live + 7 numbers available.
Last edited:
Meh
1. The ratings are in cancellation territory. Being a Seth McFarlane property won't help The Orville since it cost 10 times as much to make as an animated show.
2. If the Orville get a second season, CBS will sue. All the commentators who say it's the next Star Trek will get their just desert when their own words are used by CBS (public perception is key to IP trial).
1. The ratings are in cancellation territory. Being a Seth McFarlane property won't help The Orville since it cost 10 times as much to make as an animated show.
2. If the Orville get a second season, CBS will sue. All the commentators who say it's the next Star Trek will get their just desert when their own words are used by CBS (public perception is key to IP trial).
Wrong. The Orville is currently Fox's third or fourth most successful show - it comes in behind or ahead of Star, depending on the Week. Its numbers also rise from it's lead-in, Gotham, which is into its third or fourth year.
"Cancellation territory" is not some opaque magic incantation that can be used to impress.
Don't Internet Lawyer. You have no idea what you're talking about.
If Hulu views aren't counted in these ratings, then the ratings are meaningless. Isn't it how people watch anything this decade? I haven't had live TV since before Obama became the president. Considering how good and praised this show is and the void that it fills, I really doubt that it's in the cancellation territory.
when a show is this disliked by critics, the fandom love will wear off with some time, as is common with nostalgia rips.
id bet it gets a second season and thatd be a better indicator IMO.
id bet it gets a second season and thatd be a better indicator IMO.
I'd like to see your data on this. "Sounds plausible to me" is not informative.
this isnt a scientific paper.. a college thesis or a courtroom.
its people airing opinions.
do you ask for data on everyones opinions or just ones you realllllllly dont like?
ive seen a lot if tv and done a lot if reading. when i put my finger on yhe pulse... thats the vibe i get.
its still a fanrip of their favorite trek episodes with low brow humor sprinkled throughout. i still enjoy the show but my opinion is heads will level off once the nostalgia trip does.
for sure. many of the std fans are cautious and nervous at best.
i know when i turn on orville im going to enjoy my time and be entertained. disco? eh.... its a who knows week to week
Last edited:
In any case it's pretty awesome that there are two episodes to look forward to on weekly basis now. The quality of the last two episodes allows me to contemplate the possibility that STD might become the better show in the long run, an idea I wouldn't have even entertained a week ago.
Nothing wrong with some healthy competition
Nothing wrong with some healthy competition
Similar threads
