Spoilers Did Picard finally ''right the ship'' with Picard season 3?

[tomalak301]

Exactly! Move forward in the TNG/DS9/VGR time period. There are so many storylines that could be followed up now with greater budgets and serialization in live action. Yes, there are elements to enjoy with both PRODIGY and LOWER DECKS. But both are animated, and each suffer from structural limitations from their formats. PICARD is live action with many main characters returning. So it would have a much higher potential hype level.

Let's say PRODIGY was live action and targeted at a general audience... and had most of the VGR characters back. Much more potential hype.

That is completely disingenuous and unfair to the animated shows. Just because it's an animated show doesn't mean it lacks quality over the live action shows. In fact, I would say there is more Star Trek heart in Lower Decks and Prodigy than there ever was in Season 2 of Picard (Not sure about Season 3 yet) or a lot of Discovery. You also had a lot of characters returning for both shows, like:

Tom Paris
Chakotay
Janeway
Riker
Troi
Kira
Quark
Admiral Jellico
Cochrane
The episode Kobyashi from Prodigy brought back a number of characters, like Odo and Beverly Crusher.

This idea that the animated shows are inferior to the live action shows just because they are animated is something I don't, or won't ever, buy.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

It did indeed just start.

Let's see how the next weeks play out. From what I've heard about Episode 9/10, I think the Trek fans will be incredibly pleased with what they've put together here. We'll be getting things that many 90s era Trek fans have been waiting decades for.

I remember when 90's era Trek Fans hated 90's era trek, so what exactly is it they have been waiting for?

 

[Danja]

Exactly! Move forward in the TNG/DS9/VGR time period. There are so many storylines that could be followed up now with greater budgets and serialization in live action.

It's been twenty years since Voyager went off the air.

We can't pretend time hasn't passed.

 

[Lord Garth]

I almost wish I didn't think PIC Season 3 is going to be my favorite season of the series. I'll have to distance myself from these people the same way I had to distance myself from people who didn't like ENT.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

EDITED TO ADD: My mind was subconsciously going somewhere else with this, and now it came to me what it was: PIC Season 3 is like ENT Season 4. We have a lot of people coming in to embrace this final season of a show.

 

[James Cole]

This idea that the animated shows are inferior to the live action shows just because they are animated is something I don't, or won't ever, buy.

I'm not arguing that the animated shows are inferior, just that they face different structural constraints. PRODIGY is ostensibly a show aimed at children, so like TAS it will be limited in what they can do plot wise. LOWER DECKS is a comedy that has massive tonal and verisimilitude problems if it's to be taken as literally canon (however, I commend both shows for maintaining integral visual continuity with TOS). Whereas the only ostensible structural constraint for a live action show is the passage of time and aging of actors.

And it's great the shows have had many cameos. But with the exception of Janeway and potentially Chakotay, neither show has had a legacy character as a regular or frequent recurring role, unlike PICARD.

It's been twenty years since Voyager went off the air.

We can't pretend time hasn't passed.

I agree. That's why it makes sense to have a live action show featuring many legacy characters to take place in universe the same time has passed since, and much more sense for something set in the 2380s to be animated, which they are doing.

 

[tomalak301]

LOWER DECKS is a comedy that has massive tonal and verisimilitude problems if it's to be taken as literally canon.

Tonal problems? I can totally buy there are ships in the fleet that are not as cool as the ships we know about. Someone has to do second contact after all. Also, Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds is having a crossover event this year, so yes Lower Decks is canon.

 

[Danja]

I'm not arguing that the animated shows are inferior, just that they face different structural constraints. PRODIGY is ostensibly a show aimed at children, so like TAS it will be limited in what they can do plot wise.

What about an anime?

Stuff like Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Fullmetal Alchemist, and Cowboy Bebop are DEFINITELY for adults only.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yamato 2199+ has also embraced more adult-themed subject matter and characters than its original 70’s incarnation.

 

[James Cole]

Tonal problems? I can totally buy there are ships in the fleet that are not as cool as the ships we know about. Someone has to do second contact after all. Also, Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds is having a crossover event this year, so yes Lower Decks is canon.

How long would Carol Freeman be able to keep her ship in the Starfleet of TNG?

And, well, I'm actually far more worried about the SNW side to that, as SNW and TOS don't cross well, and LOWER DECKS has pre-established visual continuity with the later.

What about an anime?

Stuff like Death Note and Cowboy Bebop are DEFINITELY for adults only.

That's an awesome awesome idea. My only caveat would be they'd need to be clear upfront over whether it was supposed to be canon (and thus bound by all the in in universe rules), or more of a what if type thing.

 

[tomalak301]

How long would Carol Freeman be able to keep her ship in the Starfleet of TNG?

Hard to say, but Riker and Freeman had a nice working relationship so she had one member of the Enterprise crew who would probably vouch for her.

 

[Danja]

That's an awesome awesome idea. My only caveat would be they'd need to be clear upfront over whether it was supposed to be canon (and thus bound by all the in in universe rules), or more of a what if type thing.

Prodigy is aimed at an older teenage audience (they're not doing Paw Patrol).

They've done some dark stuff. They could have a visual vocabulary similar to Picard's:

Someone disappears onscreen (after being shot): Dead
They drop without disappearing: Stunned but alive.

Yamato 2199+ has also embraced more adult-themed subject matter and characters than its original 70’s incarnation.

OT: I remember the first time I saw Robotech.

Here was this "cartoon" where people were falling in love, getting married (Lynn Minmei, Max Sterling), and having kids!

Teenaged me had a difficult time wrapping her head around it.

 

[donners22]

I don't really agree with the premise that the ship needed righting. They certainly had room to improve in terms of structure and pacing which were an issue in previous seasons, but that didn't require the complete redirection of this season.

It is obviously premature to assess a season based on its first episode. There was nothing about this first episode which stood out over those of previous seasons; indeed, I'd rank it as one of the weaker Picard episodes.

 

[JamesRye]

I think the ship did need righting, for me, Picard has been terrible. But I don't see what's different about this episode so far - aside from the music, which is weird in this one. It's still dark in terms of the lighting, Crusher is now a badass killer, and Picard is disrespected by those in Starfleet, which is just weird. I thought this was one of the better episodes, but I gotta say that it felt like a fan-film.

I fully expect this show to go down the revenge / vengeance route, which will be boring and predictable. But hey, lets hope its not a literal retread of TWOK, which is what it's looking like.

 

[The Wormhole]

How long would Carol Freeman be able to keep her ship in the Starfleet of TNG?

The same amount of time she's kept her ship in the Starfleet of Lower Decks. Which is the same Starfleet as TNG so I'm not even sure why I'm making a distinction.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm not arguing that the animated shows are inferior, just that they face different structural constraints. PRODIGY is ostensibly a show aimed at children, so like TAS it will be limited in what they can do plot wise.

Watch Clone Wars. Kids shows can do some straight up dark shit.

Picard is disrespected by those in Starfleet, wh

He's disrespected by one officer. Kirk faced the same problem.

 

[Nomad V]

I'm cautiously optimistic for the show. I still avoid the first 2 seasons of Picard and Discovery. I do enjoy the Lower Decks cartoon though.

 

[Eddie Roth]

There was nothing wrong with seasons 1 and 2.

There was nothing that needed to be "righted."

Different does not equal "bad." To say this is how Picard always "should have been" is to disrespect the cast and crew of the first two seasons and their intentions.

This. 100 percent. Yes, there was questionable plotting in both seasons (especially in terms of wanting too many things at once), but the same must be said three times as much about Discovery. On the whole, these two PIC seasons told beautifully character-centric stories about people we already loved - or came to love. I sure did. Season 1 in particular was super-poignant about aging, mortality, as well as the dangers of immortality. Classic Trek in its examinations of what makes one human (versus machine). I never saw what people disliked about it. For me, seeing the season a second time at a pace quicker than one episode a week gave me a deeper appreciation for what they were trying to do.

 

[Tuskin38]

Crusher is now a badass killer,

She has to be to survive on the frontier while being constantly hunted.

 

[fireproof78]

LOWER DECKS is a comedy that has massive tonal and verisimilitude problems if it's to be taken as literally canon

It's literally not meant to be taken literal.

 

[JamesRye]

She has to be to survive on the frontier while being constantly hunted.

Good job she's got a 'pump action' phaser rifle