Deanna Troi: What changes would you make

[Wingsley]

I apologize in advance if this particular message is a little off-the-wall for this thread, but skimming over the other posts I found it impossible to resist:

1: I was never totally clear about what Troi's function was aboard the Enterprise. Was she the ship's resident shrink? If so, what was she doing on the bridge? What was she doing involved in negotiations? It seemed the Roddenberry wanted a woman providing some advice to the Captain and XO on the Bridge, and so this nebulous "counselor" position was created for her. From Day One of TNG, I was scratching my head about what Roddenberry was trying to do. The only thing I came up with was Hollywood politics; you know, a corporate decision to create a character and shoehorn her into the show to serve a purpose that has little to do with why the ship is in space in the first place, kinda like a political officer on a Soviet submarine...

If it were me, I would actually have civilians on the bridge all the time, and Troi would be some kind of liaison officer. After all, Starfleet isn't purely military and there are supposedly civvie scientists and specailists on board all the time, right? I would give Troi a different personality altogether, and drop the Riker romance angle. The whole "small galaxy" thing wore thin between Ilia and Decker anyway.

2: How deeply do you want to delve into critiquing Marina Sirtis' portrayal of Troi? I have mixed feelings about Sirtis. She flubbed her fake accent and sounded British a few too many times for my taste. Does anyone want to cite an ep that would be her best performance in the series? I thought her worst would be a tie between ENT's "These Are the Voyages..." and the bar scene in FIRST CONTACT.

3: Did Troi ever brandish a phaser in the entire series? Did she ever fire one? I don't think she did.

4: It would've been interesting if Troi had some of Pulaski's charm and abrasiveness from the start, especially the sarcasm. That's one element I missed from TOS. (McCoy was my favorite TOS character.) Do you think Sirtis would've been up to the task?

 

[Iruka]

I apologize in advance if this particular message is a little off-the-wall for this thread, but skimming over the other posts I found it impossible to resist:

1: I was never totally clear about what Troi's function was aboard the Enterprise. Was she the ship's resident shrink? If so, what was she doing on the bridge? What was she doing involved in negotiations? It seemed the Roddenberry wanted a woman providing some advice to the Captain and XO on the Bridge, and so this nebulous "counselor" position was created for her. From Day One of TNG, I was scratching my head about what Roddenberry was trying to do.

I prefer to focus more on her relationships with the other characters--a dramatic function, if not a "military" one. If Crusher is the love of Picard's life, I think Troi has a fair claim to being his best friend. (See their scenes in "Family," "Suddenly Human," and "Chain of Command II," among others...)

2: How deeply do you want to delve into critiquing Marina Sirtis' portrayal of Troi? I have mixed feelings about Sirtis. She flubbed her fake accent and sounded British a few too many times for my taste.

The Betazoid accent has taken a lot of flak in this thread, but I like it a lot, myself... Anyway, it's not like it was _her_ idea to do it; it was Roddenberry's idea, as I recall.

Does anyone want to cite an ep that would be her best performance in the series?

I’d pick out “Face of the Enemy” as one of Sirtis’ better performances, and I really like her guest turn in Voyager’s “Inside Man” (“Five minutes, Admiral.” )

I thought her worst would be a tie between ENT's "These Are the Voyages..." and the bar scene in FIRST CONTACT.

I haven't seen the first, and as for the second, I prefer the novelized scene as written by J.M. Dillard; the humor in the film version is a little too broad for me, even though the scene has some good lines.

3: Did Troi ever brandish a phaser in the entire series? Did she ever fire one? I don't think she did.

Offhand, I can remember three instances in which she carries and draws a phaser in what could be considered combat situations: Against Bajoran terrorists in “Ensign Ro,” while searching for Data in "Descent I," and against the Romulans on the Enterprise in “Timescape.” As for firing one, I think she does so while possessed in “Power Play.” Then there’s the firefight “Insurrection,” in which she carries and shoots a phaser rifle. I'm sure there are more instances, somewhere.

And doesn’t she also get some credit for blasting the bad guy’s hat off with that rifle in “A Fistful of Datas,” and at least trying out the bow and arrow in “Qpid” (even if the results were embarrassingly comical)?

4: It would've been interesting if Troi had some of Pulaski's charm and abrasiveness from the start, especially the sarcasm.

If you like abrasiveness, I take it you're particularly fond of "The Loss"?

That's one element I missed from TOS. (McCoy was my favorite TOS character.) Do you think Sirtis would've been up to the task?

Without question she would, IMHO... Most of the problems with Troi, if you ask me, came down to writing, not acting, which is one reason I like a good novel portrayal of the character so much (as you've all figured out by now, I'm sure... ).

Iruka

Worf: For the love of Kahless! Counselor Troi has seized control of the Romulan Warbird!

Picard: Oh, sure. And I suppose Saudi Arabia won the Olympic Ice Hockey gold?

--Five-Minute "Face of the Enemy," www.fiveminute.net

 

[Praetor]

1: I was never totally clear about what Troi's function was aboard the Enterprise. Was she the ship's resident shrink? If so, what was she doing on the bridge? What was she doing involved in negotiations? It seemed the Roddenberry wanted a woman providing some advice to the Captain and XO on the Bridge, and so this nebulous "counselor" position was created for her. From Day One of TNG, I was scratching my head about what Roddenberry was trying to do. The only thing I came up with was Hollywood politics; you know, a corporate decision to create a character and shoehorn her into the show to serve a purpose that has little to do with why the ship is in space in the first place, kinda like a political officer on a Soviet submarine...

If it were me, I would actually have civilians on the bridge all the time, and Troi would be some kind of liaison officer. After all, Starfleet isn't purely military and there are supposedly civvie scientists and specailists on board all the time, right? I would give Troi a different personality altogether, and drop the Riker romance angle. The whole "small galaxy" thing wore thin between Ilia and Decker anyway.

She was definitely the head shrink in the same context that Crusher was in charge of overall physical well-being of the crew. I'd say your assessment of her role development was fair, and the empathic abilities were created to give more credence to her position on the bridge and her role in advising the captain in contact with aliens, combined with the IMO very 80s notion that everyone would need a shrink at a moment's notice, and the idea that the ship was a living community and was originally supposed to be way, way out there. I like your ideas for revamping.

2: How deeply do you want to delve into critiquing Marina Sirtis' portrayal of Troi? I have mixed feelings about Sirtis. She flubbed her fake accent and sounded British a few too many times for my taste. Does anyone want to cite an ep that would be her best performance in the series? I thought her worst would be a tie between ENT's "These Are the Voyages..." and the bar scene in FIRST CONTACT.

I don't know, I thought she did pretty well. I have to feel like it was a lot the material she was given, though she did have a tendency to overdo it. I think a lot of the episodes she was strongest in were ones in which she was not the focus. "Chain of Command" comes to mind. Of course, the uniformed helped. "Face of the Enemy" was also quite strong. I think the accent was a separate issue, really. Had they simply addressed it and said she grew up on Earth, in Britain, during her formative years, or that her father was British, I think it would have been better than calling it a "Betazoid accent."

3: Did Troi ever brandish a phaser in the entire series? Did she ever fire one? I don't think she did.

She did in "Descent," at least. I can't think of another occasion, but that one sprang to mind.

4: It would've been interesting if Troi had some of Pulaski's charm and abrasiveness from the start, especially the sarcasm. That's one element I missed from TOS. (McCoy was my favorite TOS character.) Do you think Sirtis would've been up to the task?

I think that is an excellent idea, since it seemed that part of the goal of Pulaski was to recapture that McCoy-ishness. Perhaps a more worldly, cynical Troi would have been great, one with plenty of experience who had been there and done that. Troi would have gained a new role as a foil for Data in that regard. I don't know for sure if Sirtis could have done it. She always came off as too sweet. Wouldn't it have been interesting if it was Majel Barrett playing her...?

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

@ Wingsley

1) Rick B felt that American viewers would be confused by two BRITISH accents on the bridge.
BUT as the show went on she sounded more BRITISH

2) Political Officer - That would have been great but GR's NEW Rule about no conflict would have killed that idea

3) Yes more interaction with her and civilians

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

I would have deleted her character completely. No reason to have a counselor sit on the bridge just to tell the captain "I sense deception on his/her/its part." Kirk needed no frickin counselor on the bridge, it just made Picard look more like a wuss.

She could have played a recurring role, but not a main character.

They did have NON-StarFleet on the ship and some of them might have need her but the writers dropped the ball on that as well

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

After the Distraction of a browser based web game I happened upon and a bit of writters block I am back at this piece.

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

The Story So Far...

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

Deanna’s Brain​

Endosymbiosis:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Symbiot See: Wikipedia link on the page
Metropolis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(film) Copy and paste link
Doctor’s Name = Indian + Italian: http://www.behindthename.com/name/darshana
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/0/Ciana
Yes I used two first names not first and last, Deal with it
Myriad: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Myriad
Decametre [Rarely Used Metric Unit] = 10 Meters (32.808 Feet)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decametre
RESURGAM [Latin] I shall rise again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurgam
The other thought I had for the episode I mention is that:


Deanna Troi is on a Starfleet transport with 108 people when it is severely damaged by a space anomaly Deanna is one of the few survivors and the only Empathic or Telepath to survive their run-in with the space anomaly, however she badly injured all her limbs are broken. At the same time a few light years away 432 organic ships similar to Gumtu/ Tin-Man but in addition to being sentient the ships have the ability to link with the mind of an individual, in a endosymbiosis state/relationship who servers as the ships avatar for dealing with the ships crew and passengers as well as other species/outsiders and the symbiot brain/mind assisting with he running of the vessel. The living vessels as well house the remainder of a species called the Spectra of original number 1,296 bio vessels with 3,744 aboard each vessel out of 4,852,224 million only 1,617,408 remain.

However one of the lead ships has encountered a quantum singularity damaging the mind of the oldest ship in the fleet and killing its symbiot companion, as a result the crew put the mind of the vessel Vextra to sleep and start looking for a replacement for the symbiot companion; during this search they come upon the Starfleet transport and establish telepathic communications with Deanna Troi; they inform her that they are able to save the lives of the other passengers aboard the Starfleet transport if she volunteers to become their vessel’s new symbiot companion so they can keep their vessel functioning properly so both groups benefit. Deanna asks “Why me?” The Spectra explain that only an Empathic being or a Telepathic being can become a symbiot companion it is dangerous for those who are not an Empathic or Telepathic, “It has driven those who are not insane, your lifespan will increase and your knowledge will increase as well as your intelligence; After we reach our new home and start to settle it she can then server as a liaison between the Spectra and the Federation.

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

“Unfortunately when you transform into a symbiot companion to the vessel Vextra you cannot return to your original genetic form again.” “In addition to the other changes that the transformation into a symbiot companion endows you with is the ability to shape-shift and shape-shift Vextra as well; sixty percent of Empaths that undergo the Symbiot Companion Metamorphosis become Telepathic we do not fully understand why this happens; All Telepathic Symbiot Companions are strong enough to perform mind transference between two or more beings, your physical strength will increase considerably, you will be able to be in several places at once; You will be able to function outside of Vextra like Gumtu/Tin-Man also you will be able to separate yourself from Vextra for a period of six years at a time” “Of final importance you will be able to partially link minds with Vextra as well as full mental integration with Vextra if you develop a close bond with your host Vextra you and her will periodically undergo mind transference and if your host is severely injured you Deanna will be able to transform yourself in to the Host Body and transform Vextra in to your Symbiot Companion”
“Do you agree to our offer Deanna Troi to become Deanna Vextra?”

Deanna thinks over the Spectryn offer for twelve minutes “Many of the crew and passengers are dead and more are dying including myself as time passes this may be my only chance to save us aboard the transport” Deanna says out loud, just then word reaches the makeshift sickbay where the survivors are that it will take four hours to repair the communication systems; Deanna Troi focuses the thought “I accept your offer to become Deanna and Vextra” the Spectryn crew acknowledge Deanna’s answer and they beam her off the transport looks of shock spread through sickbay as Deanna Troi dematerialises before nearly all of sickbay to see panic sets in among many in sickbay since they think they are going to be boarded; Vextra emits a status field that envelops the Starfleet transport in order to prevent anymore people from dying aboard the transport as part of their end of the bargain as the metamorphosis can take several days the bridge crew of the Vextra telepathically communicate to Deanna Troi just before she dematerialises “We will put your transport vessel into status to prevent anymore deaths as our part of the bargain”

Meanwhile aboard the Vextra an organic platform rises moments before Deanna Troi materialises on the platform a chair like chamber with a semi-opaque dome-like front forms up out of the ship [Think Metropolis by Fritz Lang 1927 Robot Maria activation scenes for the inspiration for the setting] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(film)
[Some of these scenes are used in Queen’s video for Radio Ga Ga and the video is inspired by Metropolis]

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

A female voice pages for Doctor Darshana Ciana; Deanna is rapped in organic bands of material she looks like a Mummy but her face is visible. Dr. Darshana Ciana approaches Deanna Troi “Welcome Deanna Troi we will both benefit from this” “I’m hurt worse than I think” says Deanna “It’s the End, but the moment has been prepared for” [I’ve wanted to put that line in badly any guesses as to where its from] replies the doctor. The metamorphosis begins energy pluses surge through Deanna’s body at first there is discomfort and pain but this turns in a soothing sensation her body is then probed, organic bands then cover her face he memories are then scanned; a new body starts to grow in the chair like chamber [New actress that bears a resemblance to Marina takes over the role] infant to child to adult in twelve minuets.

Then energy pluses pass through both bodies Deanna’s new body start to glow Deanna Troi’s mind begins to transfer over to her new body; Her original body starts to shake considerably and the her body goes limp over at the chamber the dome opens and liquid pours out. The New Deanna Troi stands up [Actress is wearing a flesh-tone body-stocking] nearly naked with some biological material covering her body is mildly glowing she starts to walk and almost falls over; Deanna tries again and falls down she gets down on all fours and starts crawl to her old body Deanna stands up and places her hands on the mid section of her old lifeless body Deanna absorbs her old body. “I was her Deanna Troi was I not? I am her but not her she is part of me but I am more now; she could only crawl but I can walk I can run and I can fly!” says the New Seanna Troi.

“Hello name is Dr. Darshana Ciana I am the head of the metamorphosis team you have just made it through the first stage of the Symbiot Companion Metamorphosis & Regeneration; Your doing fine I’m going to ask you two questions first do you know why you are here and who are you” Seanna Troi is disorientated and does not seem to understand Dr. Darshana Ciana questions after a few moments she asks her patient again “Who are you please tell me your name and what is your purpose here?” asks Dr. Ciana “Who am I? Who Am I? WHO Am I? WHO AM I?” says the New Seanna Troi. “I AM SEANNA PHOENIX! She answers “When one will become two and one, when will be as one with Vextra?” “Then will be of three minds one must become two an in turn three and its factor SIX; when will I be as Vextra and Vextra as I?”

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

“Soon” answers Dr. Ciana “We are only a third of what we should be?” asks Seanna “Yes” says Dr. Ciana “Next is the memories of the past Symbiot Companions, a medical team is ready to take you to the outer core Symbiot Companions Past then to the inner core for integration with Vextra” answers the doctor Seanna Phoenix glow increases and she starts to levitate “YES, YES, YES then we will be whole Seanna Phoenix Vextra!” she passes out the doctor catches as she falls “Come on people we were off to the outer core” 120 Meters/396.3 Feet [1Meter = 3.28 Feet] later the medical team and Seanna Phoenix have reached the edge of the mid-section of the ship “Our becoming is at hand; the experiences and knowledge of the lineage will be part of us and us of it I shall increase the sum of the lineage of Symbiot Companions and achieve kinship with the lineage of predecessors” “Gumtu was week and foolish we are not Gumtu should have shared his knowledge with the federation how selfish, we are grater and shall be magnanimous and share with the federation what they will be capable of grasping and appreciating”

“Deanna Troi needed protection she had to depend on Riker, Worf or Data for protection but now reborn as Seanna Phoenix I do not need anyone on the Enterprise to protect me, I can protect the Enterprise as Seanna Phoenix Vextra or as Seanna Phoenix” “I will show William T. Riker whom belongs to whom very soon” Seanna snickers then giggles “Worf will be able to take a long vacation after I complete my metamorphosis and regeneration I will be able to handle security for Enterprise” Seanna laughs “and as for those who hold an ill will for Jean Luc Picard due to his being Locutus of Borg we shall exact punishment on all of them” “We are ready for the myriad of experiences, knowledge and skills of the lineage NO MORE DELAY Darshana Ciana there are no regrets we demand our becoming, our advancement, our fulfillment, my reformation and Vextra’s restoration, OUR REGENERATION & REBIRTH ”

“Dr Ciana our new Symbiot Companion seems too eager to go through this she seems as if she will loose herself in this merging is she MAD?” states one of the youngest members of the Symbiot Companion Metamorphosis & Regeneration Team; “You forget that Deanna has gone through Regeneration in addition to Symbiot Companion Metamorphosis and Deanna had life threatening injuries young Mr. Tory” “One: undergoing Companion Metamorphosis unsettles the mind a bit, Two: Regeneration to heal injuries blurs the mind, Three: Total Regeneration to prevent a death causes a storm in one’s mind; In the case of Deanna Troi/Seanna Phoenix Total Regeneration plus Symbiot Companion Metamorphosis has caused her to through reformation” answers Dr. Darshana Ciana

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

Dr. Ciana continues “Four: willingness how much someone wants/needs to become a Symbiot Companion affects the whole process, this volunteer is more willing and more genuine than some of our candidates who have studied and trained for this role”
“As a result of these four factors the mind of Deanna Troi/Seanna Phoenix is in total flux her personally traits are shifting around dominant traits are becoming minor traits and minor traits are becoming dominant as well some of her dominant and minor personality traits are becoming midlevel personality traits” “When we get to the outer core and the next step of this transformation takes place Myriad Life Induction takes place the mind of Deanna Troi/Seanna Phoenix will be in a state of chaos her mind as it is not will seem calm compared to what it will soon be after Seanna Phoenix receives the Myriad sum of the lineage of predecessor companions Seanna Phoenix’s mind will be re-forged”

Dr. Darshana Ciana pauses takes a breath and stares piercingly at the young Mr. Tory
“That is not for the faint of heart Mr Tory as you have read in your medical studies a new companion can be violent, paranoid and or delusional as well they exhibit physical & telekinetic strength six-fold above normal for several hours after stage two and in a small umber of cases their sexual orientation changes” “It can take 24 to 30 hours for them to properly calm down, since you are being overdramatic and slightly idiotic Mr. Tory your useless to this team I have half a mind to turn you into a twin of your girlfriend and confine you to your quarters where you can entertain yourself or tell Seanna after stage two that you think she is MAD” Dr. Darshana Ciana slaps Mr. Tory in the face and motions to some security personnel who are part of the Symbiot Companion Metamorphosis & Regeneration Team “Take Mr. Tory to his quarters” the security personnel take Mr. Tory back to his quarters, “Now that we are rid of that fool Tory we can get back to the business at hand”

 

[JohanKoch]

I love the idea someone mentioned of her reworked as some sort of "first contact" officer, an expert in alien lifeforms and the point person on many away teams. Sometimes it seemed like they were using her for that kind of role, other times she had very little to do. In many ways, the idea of a glorified psychologist standing around on the bridge of a Federation starship was absolutely silly. Did other ships have Councilors? If they weren't Betazoid, just what the heck were they doing on their ships?

Having said that, I appreciate that Roddenberry was trying to do something a little different with the Next Generation, making Starfleet less of a military operation. It's just a lot of those changes (like families on the Enterprise) didn't really work out.

Keep the empath thing if they must, but frankly it led to some awful awful scenes ("I feel pain...great pain!'). Perhaps they just needed a more ...subtle actress to pull that off.

Needless to say, put her in uniform from the beginning.

 

[Gorn Captain]

I think the most significant change is that instead of watching her on tv, she'd be on my lap.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

I know she's not perfect, but I actually really like Troi. Especially after she got her uniform, which made it easier to see her as a proper Starfleet officer (plus she looked way better). I guess Troi sort of existed to help develop the other characters via their chats with her, but she actually got some really good scenes, especially with Picard.

PS Worf/Troi forever!

 

[WillsBabe]

she actually got some really good scenes, especially with Picard.

I agree. I like the scenes she had with Picard. I like the dynamic it created between them. Ususally, Picard is in charge in their dynamic. When he was suffering and recovering at various times and talking with Troi, the power dynamic shifted, which I found interested.

PS Worf/Troi forever!

Yuck! (j/k)

 

[Iconian]

Give her a better job. The whole counselor/social worker thing got old real fast. I think Troi should have been either the ship's navigator or pilot, in which case Data could have been science officer and third in command.

Lieutenant Stadi from Voyager would have been a cool Troi, imo. Too bad they got rid of her so fast.

I wouldn't have minded if the character had been Vulcan. I've always thought TNG lacked a permanent Vulcan presence. And Marina looked great as a Romulan.

 

[Anwar]

Well, she could double as a Counselor as a side-job with her real position on the ship being more of a Xeno-Diplomatic Specialist. Emotions are Universal, so having an Empath as a Xeno-Specialist would work in studying them and in diplomatic negotiations/first contact missions. For example she'd be charged with studying the personal character of the representative in question they'd be meeting for negotiations as a preparation or for the race/culture in question in eventual first contact situations.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Well, she could double as a Counselor as a side-job with her real position on the ship being more of a Xeno-Diplomatic Specialist. Emotions are Universal, so having an Empath as a Xeno-Specialist would work in studying them and in diplomatic negotiations/first contact missions. For example she'd be charged with studying the personal character of the representative in question they'd be meeting for negotiations as a preparation or for the race/culture in question in eventual first contact situations.

AFAIK, in the Titan series, that's exactly what she does.

 

[SoM]

On the loooong fanfic (replete with "updates" on the progress)... isn't there another forum for that sort of stuff?

I love the idea someone mentioned of her reworked as some sort of "first contact" officer, an expert in alien lifeforms and the point person on many away teams. Sometimes it seemed like they were using her for that kind of role, other times she had very little to do. In many ways, the idea of a glorified psychologist standing around on the bridge of a Federation starship was absolutely silly. Did other ships have Councilors? If they weren't Betazoid, just what the heck were they doing on their ships?

Well, they occasionally referenced counsellors on DS9, but I don't think any actually appeared on-screen before Ezri Dax came along in S7. And while she DID sit on the bridge of the Defiant, she usually just played the Uhura role there, IIRC (and, ultimately, she was there because Sisko wanted Dax around, rather than because he needed Ezri around).