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DC to REBOOT???

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Out of that group the only one I dislike is Jamie Reyes and I think thats because I dislike the scarab armor more than the character.
Legacy heroes are a marketing problem from the get go in an established universe and very few have the good run that Wally West had. Of course we had Wally around as Kid Flash for decades so his promotion to Flash one day was something we just kind of assumed would happen. The others mentioned just sort of jumped into the fray and we had to accept them...or not.
 
It strikes me as ironic that DC, which embraced the concept of the "legacy hero" in the 80s and 90s, has backed away from that hardcore, while Marvel, which never embraced the "legacy hero," is turning Ultimate Spider-Man into a legacy hero.

Legacies didn't sell and when they introduced them people cried reverse discrimination or affirmative action. Look at the reactions to the Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle, the Renee Montonya Question, the Ryan Choi Atom and the Jason Rusch Firestorm. The reactions to those ideas and characters were vitriolic and bordering on open racism.

The legacy heroes introduced in the 80s and 90s sold well. At least, it seemed like Wally did.

The most recent batch might not have...

Personally, I wasn't interested in Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle because... well... it was just another super hero, just another power that can do anything... meh. I liked Ted, and the idea of Ted, someone who might NOT be the best at what he does, but he does it because it's right.
 
Yes, they did. Americans in particular seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to this kind of "recasting" - the bitter, unreasoning stuff you'd read on GEnie or Compuserve when Voyager introduced a black actor as Tuvok was truly startling...and these people couldn't comprehend how narrowminded and senseless their reactions were.

I always wondered why all Vulcans weren't dark skinned? I mean they all grow up in a pretty harsh desert climate.
 
It strikes me as ironic that DC, which embraced the concept of the "legacy hero" in the 80s and 90s, has backed away from that hardcore, while Marvel, which never embraced the "legacy hero," is turning Ultimate Spider-Man into a legacy hero.

Legacies didn't sell and when they introduced them people cried reverse discrimination or affirmative action. Look at the reactions to the Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle, the Renee Montonya Question, the Ryan Choi Atom and the Jason Rusch Firestorm. The reactions to those ideas and characters were vitriolic and bordering on open racism.

My favorite example is the coining of the term "Blaqualad."* I admit, I thought it was kind of funny, but it's no joke to some of these people.

The thing is, for all those characters mentioned? That's where the rule that you can't ignore your base loses meaning. When there are literally about ten people really give a shit about Ray Palmer (it was twelve, but Gardner Fox and Gil Kane died), you don't need their $30. To be honest, none of those concepts should be headlining an ongoing in the first place.**

I'm curious as to whether Hawke and Rayner sold better than Queen and Jordan had been at the time. They didn't let Chuck Dixon make Ollie put his hand in Prince Baron's testing stump for laughs. These are IP managers here.

*Does anyone else like to imagine that the historically interesting and now irrelevant and possibly retconned militant stereotype Black Manta is the founder of Black Person Island from those Cary Bates Klan of Super-Heroes issues which no longer exist in continuity? Tyroc has sound powers, right? And sound travels well underwater... Geoff Johns, my man, you can have that one for free.

**It does not, help, unfortunately, that Renee Montoya's major contributions to the DCU have been 1)having sex with Kate Kane in exchange for not arresting her--foul play, hero!--and 2)being nice to a guy while he died from cancer. Also, she needs a haircut.
 
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It's a fun idea, but I couldn't come up with more than about 12 Marvel ongoings I would read, and they're all really obvious.
 
I'm particularly fond of my Daily Bugle idea. Oh yeah in the Marvel 52 relaunch Peter and MJ are married :)
Ok, I can think of two more titles. :p

Daily Bugle? I dunno, the only newspaper-related story I ever liked was Early Edition, and that's because the newspaper was magic, and in honesty I didn't like it very much. However, it's true that most newspaper-related stories do not have J. Jonah Jameson in them.

I think I'd also bring back Jan van Dyne. Or maybe I wouldn't. The really damning thing about Marvel is that I can't even get angry about Marvel stuff any more.
 
I'm kinda surprised by how much seem to dislike Geoff Johns in this thread. In most of the other places I've been to online people seem to really like his stuff.
 
I'm kinda surprised by how much seem to dislike Geoff Johns in this thread. In most of the other places I've been to online people seem to really like his stuff.
i really enjoy Johns stuff, especially the GL stores over the past couple years. Blackest Night was great and Infinite Crisis was a really good crossover as well.
 
I'm kinda surprised by how much seem to dislike Geoff Johns in this thread. In most of the other places I've been to online people seem to really like his stuff.
People get overexposed and/or overworked and it starts to show and the tide turns somewhat.

Bendis and Brubaker at Marvel are kinda in a similar boat to use recent examples.
 
I'm kinda surprised by how much seem to dislike Geoff Johns in this thread. In most of the other places I've been to online people seem to really like his stuff.

It's because he is one of the The Powers That Be at DC Comics. So he is going to get a share of the blame for screwups and unpopular decisions made by DC even if he has nothing to do with them. The same goes for Joe Quesada even though he has had an amazing run at Marvel as EiC and has gotten some of the best comic runs for its top books published under his regime, to some people he will always be worse than the bastard child of Osama and Satan.
 
I'm kinda surprised by how much seem to dislike Geoff Johns in this thread. In most of the other places I've been to online people seem to really like his stuff.
In equity, 80% of that hatred is me, and it's approximating pathological, so I need to take a break from it. I know Young and Dennis think he's been great ever since he was a lower-case g.

I never liked the return of Hal, but that's mostly because I just don't like dead people coming back to life without insanely good justification. It's cheap and it's stupid and it's mean. I wish Ted Kord hadn't died like he did, either, but his brains are on a floor in Switzerland. So it goes. If you want your hero back, you write period pieces, flashbacks, or time travel stories. This is basic.*

But it was still pretty good comics. I started to weary after Sinestro Corps War, which obviously was Haltastic. That was the apex of Johns' talent, if not his career, and after that... well, what I think happened is that he became a victim of his own success. It's like he felt he was unable to pace himself, and packed ten years worth of development into two, which left no time, ironically, for any real feeling. Then again, this is a theme that developed earlier--he packs too much into too little space. Infinite Crisis has some of the greatest, potentially most sympathetic antagonists in comic book history--but what we got was "YOU'RE NOT SUPERBOY!" and an erratic Alex Luthor who one minute wants to save everybody and the next doesn't even care that his alternate-universe and adoptive mother just fucking died. Why wasn't that 12 issues?

But even then, I only really turned on him when he invented his reductive, rather nonsensical emotional categorization scheme based on a color definition system that is not only specifically human, but specifically Western, and even then somewhat archaic. This worked in Donnie Darko, because it was a joke. Malaise of the Microwave Lanterns and the Inquisitiveness of the Infrared Clan don't work too well in a visual medium, I guess, but neither is "purple-pink" an accurate representation of violet.

And either put on some pants, Carol, or just go starkers. Let's go full-on Doc Manhattan from the other direction. In a sane world, they'd have had the courage and cleverness to make the Star Sapphires completely nude (and included at least some men), and they'd have been applauded. But of course it's TV14 to see the inside of a man's neck, but the outside of a vulva or a sack is M. But at least lose the heels. Even Black Canary doesn't really pull that off, people just pretend she does because it's a classic design element.

Then there were the Red Lanterns, who would be an amazing element... in a Lobo book. This is textbook in taking an idea so far it becomes unintentional self-parody--Atrocitus can vomit naplam blood, that would make him unique. But they all vomit napalm blood. There's a cat who vomits napalm blood. Has anyone done a Roy Harper vs. Dex-Starr comic yet?

And then the final straw was Blackest Night, which was just ugly comics, toyetic in the worst way, involves an unironic use of the phrase "White Power Lantern," and is narratively repetitious and obnoxious. Rejected tagline: "The dead have risen... and they'll hurt your feelings."

Johns certainly has his backers. But most of the places I frequent are at best lukewarm on the guy, ranging from the grudging respect of Graeme McMillan to the hate-as-entertainment of Tucker Stone.

*And Superman doesn't count, although I can't really explain why. I don't even like that part of the Bible, but somehow Superman's rebirth and ensuing mullet don't bother me. It's weird, I know.

Hound of Ulster said:
It's because he is one of the The Powers That Be at DC Comics. So he is going to get a share of the blame for screwups and unpopular decisions made by DC even if he has nothing to do with them.

I don't blame Geoff Johns for anything he didn't put his name on. I don't blame him for Batman being ridiculous, I blame Morrison. I don't blame him for Green Arrow somehow being tried for murder for using deadly force on a planetary terrorist who once took down the whole JLA single-handedly, I blame Robinson and Krul. I don't blame him for cancelling Secret Six, I blame society.

I'll even give him credit for Action Luthor, since he provided the stage that Paul Cornell and Pete Woods gave their career-defining performances on. Also for JSA. Particularly Johnny Sorrow, possibly the coolest-looking villain in the DCU (even if he rips off the Red King from Doom Patrol, it was an improvement). His invisible face makes you insane!
 
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I'm kinda surprised by how much seem to dislike Geoff Johns in this thread. In most of the other places I've been to online people seem to really like his stuff.

He saved Green Lantern and brought it back from being just this side of crap, then expanded the hell out of it. He's my guy. :techman:
 
I'm kinda surprised by how much seem to dislike Geoff Johns in this thread. In most of the other places I've been to online people seem to really like his stuff.

He saved Green Lantern and brought it back from being just this side of crap, then improved the hell out of it. He's my guy. :techman:
I sometimes wonder if there's this great Green Lantern series other people were reading that I never heard of.

I really don't say it to be argumentative, I just wonder what people are liking that I'm missing, or why they like what I hate.
 
I'm kinda surprised by how much seem to dislike Geoff Johns in this thread. In most of the other places I've been to online people seem to really like his stuff.

He saved Green Lantern and brought it back from being just this side of crap, then improved the hell out of it. He's my guy. :techman:

I'm kinda surprised by how much seem to dislike Geoff Johns in this thread. In most of the other places I've been to online people seem to really like his stuff.

He saved Green Lantern and brought it back from being just this side of crap, then expanded the hell out of it. He's my guy. :techman:
Which of you is the Earth 2 Dennis?
 
The Earth-2 Dennis is dead. He was killed a number of years ago by Expo67 for a poorly-defined reason that had something to do with Battlestar Galactica and "Tin Man." Meanwhile, on Earth-2, Expo67 still posts here.
 
The Earth-2 Dennis is dead. He was killed a number of years ago by Expo67 for a poorly-defined reason that had something to do with Battlestar Galactica and "Tin Man." Meanwhile, on Earth-2, Expo67 still posts here.


Edit: What the heck?? Now I need to know which of me is the Earth-2 Silvercrest!
 
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