No the Young Justice Earth is one of the 52 Earths.
DC to REBOOT???
- Thread starter Professor Zoom
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Yep, none of that's confusing at all.
Neither is the splitting/rejoining/whatthefucking of Earths I and II. Or Superboy Prime or anything at all about Earth 3/Earth 2 in its own universe/the anti-matter universe or...
Neither is the splitting/rejoining/whatthefucking of Earths I and II. Or Superboy Prime or anything at all about Earth 3/Earth 2 in its own universe/the anti-matter universe or...
The multiverse still exists since the Batman Beyond future is supposed to be one of them...and there are like two or three different continuities now that have been introduced and Adam Beechan stated that a new origin is coming right?
Its only confusing if the writer assumes the reader has read every issue of the series up to that point. Just one simple line in a caption it all it takes to erase any confusion
But the writers are confused, and add more confusing stuff into the mix.
Yeah, that's basically saying it's confusing but it wouldn't be confusing if it weren't so confusing.
It really doesn't look like there's a sensible way to include the JSA in a unified one-Earth continuity without altering what they really were - characters of the 1930s and 1940s. Their apparent ages were a stretch in 1986, and that was 25 years ago.
Yeah, that's basically saying it's confusing but it wouldn't be confusing if it weren't so confusing.
It really doesn't look like there's a sensible way to include the JSA in a unified one-Earth continuity without altering what they really were - characters of the 1930s and 1940s. Their apparent ages were a stretch in 1986, and that was 25 years ago.
Well, I've no idea why the writers are confused. To my recollection, most writers got it. Bob Haney is the only one of the pre Crisis creators that stands out as not knowing or caring.
The JSA are no more "characters of the 1930s and 1940s" than Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman or the others that surived to the 50s, 60s and beyond. Like those characters all you have to do is ignore their creation date and play them as "modern" characters. But our love of the "Greatest Generation" tends to prevent that. The JSA didnt even spend that much time fighting in the war anyway and half of their run in All-Star Comics took place after the war. Even the issues published between '42 and '45 didn't always revolve around the war. When they were brought back in 1960s the war was never mentioned, they were just older heroes.
And that's why they're essentially characters of the 1930s and 1940s - because the only real emotional weight they bring to the stories is that they evoke that era.
Kal-L is charming because he's the bloke who used to leap mighty Deco skyscrapers and strain a bit to throw around oversized, round-fendered getaway buggies - he's the guy on the cover of Action #1. If, instead, he's just some underpowered clone of Superman from back in the 1960s, who gives a flying fuck whether he ever existed? We need two of Supes that badly?
I mean, the character designs - Flash with that Mercury helmet (again, the Deco influence) et al...the only one of the JSA people whose costume could pass as a '60s design is Alan Scott, and that's only assuming he lived in San Francisco and was dropping acid a lot when he came up with it.
"Legacy heroes" aren't actually legacy heroes when you have to make them into something that they weren't in order to change the present status quo. I might kind of miss the real JSA, but these retcon versions you're suggesting are no more interesting than any other bit players in the crowd; they're nobody at all.
Can you? I mean, even in this post, you took a swipe at Dennisfor seemingly no good reason.
Besides, I'm not the one taking anything personal by simply disagreeing with you absolutist opinion that things were less confusing pre-crisis.
I am, however, calling you out on your hypocritical statements (which you have yet to actually address).
Mostly agreed. With a sliding time scale, you can arguably bring those characters so they represent the "previous generation" of heroes (kinda like how Smallville did). Where it gets tricky is when you try to explore their adventures in their prime. Fighting crime during the 30s and 40s is the Golden Age. Fighting crime during the 70s and 80s is, well, not as interesting for those characters.
Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman can get away with being modern because they were continually published (and, thereby, constantly updated) after interest died in those characters in the mid-to-late 40s.
Which Young Justice? the comic or the cartoon?
If the writers are confused then one can assume that the direction from editorial about the nature of the multiverse is unclear. The fact that they constantly retcon and revise things every couple of years would make it quite frustrating I would say for writers to do their job when it comes to the multiverse.
See, I disagree. I've not read any of the stories with the JSA in the 30s/40s (except the occasional flashback), it's the familial role they play that gives emotional weight to them.
Like, I don't care that Ted Knight was active in WW2 as Starman, I care that Jack Knight is (somewhat grudgingly) carrying on a legacy that his Dad created and older brother briefly filled.
Or I care that Rick Tyler struggles with addiction issues because the powers his dad developed are delivered chemically and he doesn't want to make the same mistakes.
Or I care that Courtney Whitmore started off playing superhero to piss off her stepdad (the elder hero) but grew into something more.
Or that Michael Holt was contemplating suicide because he couldn't save his wife despite being a genius and superstar athlete until a ghost/hero convinced him to devote his abilities to help urban youth like a previous generation's hero.
Or that Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, and Ted Grant have seen many of their friends and partners and sometimes children die or go insane and are trying to mentor this younger generation.
Etc., etc.
Besides, there's easy enough ways to explain WW2 heroes in the present day. Nobody even bats an eye about Captain America, after all.
Que?
I liked the JSA legacy characters. They made me appreciate the original line up and the concept altogether.
they did quite well with one, mainstream continuity until Infinite Crisis. So... that was 30 years?
A couple of hiccups--Hawkman--but, really, it was a pretty simple continuity to understand.
I mean, the character designs - Flash with that Mercury helmet (again, the Deco influence) et al...the only one of the JSA people whose costume could pass as a '60s design is Alan Scott, and that's only assuming he lived in San Francisco and was dropping acid a lot when he came up with it.
I think Starman and Manhunter could cut it. As, more obviously, could the Spectre* and Black Canary.
*If there's an edict to get rid of little underpants, this IP may be in trouble.
It's all in the execution.
And Power Girl... and Flash... and...
Yep. The multiverse had its time, but it not only outlived its purpose, but it got needlessly convoluted by the end, especially in regards to having different versions of the same character (Superman, Batman, and their ilk).
And nothing. Both characters were easy to understand and consistent.
Power Girl was pretty consistent in regards to her origin post-Crisis until after Infinite Crisis which then retconned her stuff back to Pre-Crisis.
Flash was even more consistent and easy to follow. Wally West: sidekick who took on his mentor's role. Not hard to follow at all.
Honestly, DC was fairly straight forward until they tried to retcon things back to the Silver Age. That's really when the continuity really started to go off the hinges.
Was that when she was Superman's cousin who wasn't Supergirl, or when she was from Atlantis but looked just like Superman's cousin who had existed when there was a multiverse?
So he filled the boots of his mentor who died when a multiverse that never existed ceased to exist. So if you ask Joe Citizen on Cluster Earth how the Flash died, he'd say... ?
Much simpler than alternate universes.
Power Girl:
In the Post-Crisis, DC editorial wanted Superman to be the only Kryptonian. As such, they crafted a new origin for Power Girl which had her from Atlantis. This was her status until 2005's Infinite Crisis, when Golden Age Superman was able to make her "remember" that she was from another Earth and was really Golden Age Superman's cousin from an Earth that didn't exist anymore. IC made it messy and convoluted when it was working fine to that point.
Flash:
In the Post-Crisis DCU, a vague "Crisis" event happened where Barry Allen was killed saving people, thus propelling Wally into his role. Besides, it was never about the specifics on how Barry died (other than as a hero), but the legacy he left behind and Wally trying to live up to that.
You know, I was sort of interested in Supergirl, because of the solicit language "Supergirl's got... the same powers as Superman and none of his affection for the people of Earth."
Because I've always thought this is the only logical way to play Kara--alien and horribly traumatized.
But then I was looking at the writers, Michael Green and Mike Johnson, and I said "who?" and then I looked it up and said "oh." Firstly, they're really close to cyphers, but Green's major credits are runs on Batman and Superman, which is not, to the best of my knowledge, widely praised, and Mike Johnson's key work so far is Countdown.
No, not that Countdown!
The other, also terrible one. Star Trek: Countdown.
That's the sound of hope fading, gentlemen. But, in fairness, they're relatively new (I think?), so certainly they have the capacity to surprise.
Because I've always thought this is the only logical way to play Kara--alien and horribly traumatized.
But then I was looking at the writers, Michael Green and Mike Johnson, and I said "who?" and then I looked it up and said "oh." Firstly, they're really close to cyphers, but Green's major credits are runs on Batman and Superman, which is not, to the best of my knowledge, widely praised, and Mike Johnson's key work so far is Countdown.
No, not that Countdown!
The other, also terrible one. Star Trek: Countdown.
That's the sound of hope fading, gentlemen. But, in fairness, they're relatively new (I think?), so certainly they have the capacity to surprise.
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But those people don't exist, in the real world, to a reader the flash was a hero who died and was replaced by his young side-kick - nice and simple.
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