DC to REBOOT???

[Myasishchev]

I liked the idea of Wally's kids. I didn't like magically aging them.

Really, if they didn't like Wally, they should've killed him in Infinite Crisis and actually made an effort to make Bart Allen the new Flash that wasn't hamstrung by being retarded (stop magically aging people!). Maybe dig Doug Moench and William Messner-Loebs out of the obscurity pile they're hiding in. They knew what time it was. I mean, the stories were very often dumb (e.g., Wally West becomes a porcupine, sort of), but they had heart and wit. That's more than enough.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'd actually like to see The Tornado Twins. Perhaps a mini-series or something dealing with them.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Jay was the other one I was counting actually, JSA fan here. I was referring to the post-Crisis, pre-Barry's-back era.

Ah. Ok. With all these reboots, restarts, resets, hard to keep track which era.

Also a JSA fan...

I like Wally having a family, to be honest. It's something to further differentiate him from Barry even if it does make him seem "older." Hey, if this is a real reboot they could always make Barry the "younger" one with Jay as the elder statesman, Wally as the mostly-retired-but-still-around family man, and Barry as the "new" Flash.

I wouldn't mind Wally as a family man, it's a great journey from where he started, it's just I don't dig his kids also having super-powers. It seems like an easy, not particularly creative choice. I would rather him be a family man who as a father has to balance REAL problems and those weird crazy problems he has in his job. Let's see what wacky adventures Wally's kids get into this month, that he's got to go save them--meh, not that interesting.

But, what about a kid, without powers, who grows up with a superhero dad, talk about never meeting expectations.... that could be interesting.

I liked the idea of Wally's kids. I didn't like magically aging them.

Really, if they didn't like Wally, they should've killed him in Infinite Crisis and actually made an effort to make Bart Allen the new Flash that wasn't hamstrung by being retarded (stop magically aging people!). Maybe dig Doug Moench and William Messner-Loebs out of the obscurity pile they're hiding in. They knew what time it was. I mean, the stories were very often dumb (e.g., Wally West becomes a porcupine, sort of), but they had heart and wit. That's more than enough.

Yes, and yes again. I loved, LOVED William Messner-Loebs's run on The Flash. Much more than Waid's. Messner-Loebs's work had a big heart to it. And Wally was just so interesting... and we didn't need all this Speed Force stuff... we had real people struggling with Super powers...

One of my favorite comic stories ever was during that era. Wally was on a plane, helping transport a prisoner or something. Stuff happens and a stewardess is blown out the door, Wally jumps after her to try and save her... a guy that can't fly, who just runs fast.... Great story.

 

[Myasishchev]

I still can't believe JLI isn't being handled by G and dM and also Kevin Maguire just pay him what he wants. I mean, Dan Jurgens? There's a creator who speaks to the youth of today.

Giffen and DeMattis, that run on the JLI... damn, I still remember it, fond memories and I haven't read them in AGES. It was just damn fun.

It's pretty much my gold standard for what serial superhero comics ought to be. Especially the first couple of years, and especially JLA. They knew how to do comedy, action, and really heartending emotional moments (the Gray Man makes me cry, because I'm a huge baby). But that's the trifecta.

Handing it over to Jurgens is just bizarre. I mean, I don't hate Jurgens' mid-90s JLA. It wasn't terrible, really. But I don't feel that it's particularly well-remembered. (And I'm pretty sure if Doomsday slammed Booster Gold's head in a car door with his force field off, he'd be decapitated, but whatever. Why is that the one moment that sticks out most in my mind?)

On the other hand, I can grudgingly, kickingly and screamingly understand why Giffen and deMatteis didn't get the gig, or weren't even asked to submit a proposal for the gig. G and dM don't actually sell, and as near as I can tell haven't in years. They, and particularly Giffen, are probably the greatest unsuccessful comics creators in history. Like, how did Formerly Known as/I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League do, despite being probably the best Justice League stories ever, maybe even including Grant Morrison's? I think the second volume had to finish in JLA fucking Classified.

Sure, he was huge on LoSH, and the original JLI stuff sold well. But why don't people respond to it anymore? That's a mystery that doesn't have a ready solution, except the one I offered in a post above--comics readers are evil--and I don't think that's very scientific.

I'd say Giffen was like Claremont (just as the only two periods the discerning reader should care about the X-Men are when Claremont was rolling out his 6000 page opus and when Grant Morrison was doing his weird Morrisonian shit, the only times JLA was serious business was when G and dM and Morrison were in charge). I'd say they can't bottle the lightning and all that nonsense. But it's just objectively not the case. G and dM's more recent work is every bit as good, and very possibly better. It makes me sad.

But if they needed someone who could sell, who has the same talent spread, Gail Simone should be writing JLI, instead of the predetermined abortion that is Firestorm. I mean, c'mon, that could be the best comic in the world and it won't shift units. I'm not at all sure she'd want to, but that's just a bit of blue skying with an ugly green tinge of compromise.

Let's see what wacky adventures Wally's kids get into this month, that he's got to go save them--meh, not that interesting.

I dunno. I liked Impulse okay.

I wouldn't mind Wally as a family man, it's a great journey from where he started, it's just I don't dig his kids also having super-powers. It seems like an easy, not particularly creative choice. I would rather him be a family man who as a father has to balance REAL problems and those weird crazy problems he has in his job. Let's see what wacky adventures Wally's kids get into this month, that he's got to go save them--meh, not that interesting.

But, what about a kid, without powers, who grows up with a superhero dad, talk about never meeting expectations.... that could be interesting.

I like it.

Actually, are there any superhero fathers? The only ones I can think of offhand are Reed Richards and Luke Cage. Heck, the only superhero moms I can think of are Manhunter (E for effort guys but blaaargh) and Sue Storm. Young mentioned the Tornado Twins, but I don't remember Barry raising them, like, at all. I think Magneto spent more time with his kids. (Edit: Oh, right, because he died. Sorry, Bar. )

Oliver Queen, obviously, does not count in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Has there been any evidence that the reboot is keeping Barry? Might we not see Wally return as Flash?

It's Wally's costume that DC showed on their blog (you can tell by the belt), but I read an interview with Francis Manapul at Newsarama yesterday where he says it's Barry in the suit.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Like, how did Formerly Known as/I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League do, despite being probably the best Justice League stories ever, maybe even including Grant Morrison's? I think the second volume had to finish in JLA fucking Classified.

The problem with the second volume was Infinite Crisis.

Kevin Maguire is not a fast artist, and he never was. Once they had the issues in the can and ready to print, Maxwell Lord was a super-villain and Ted Kord was dead.

That left DC to burn the series off in Classified.

 

[Myasishchev]

Like, how did Formerly Known as/I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League do, despite being probably the best Justice League stories ever, maybe even including Grant Morrison's? I think the second volume had to finish in JLA fucking Classified.

The problem with the second volume was Infinite Crisis.

Kevin Maguire is not a fast artist, and he never was. Once they had the issues in the can and ready to print, Maxwell Lord was a super-villain and Ted Kord was dead.

That left DC to burn the series off in Classified.

Ah. I thought it was a sales thing. I'd be glad to be wrong about that.

I remember that it was very strange to have Max Lord in one comic being his goofy, jerky self, complaining about his cell phone reception in contrast to Fire's ability to get multiple bars in Hell, and alongside that he was shooting Ted Kord in the face and no one was being very funny at all. (It "helps" that Countdown to Infinite Crisis has all the hallmarks of something that was dashed out over a weekend based on a bulletpoint list labeled "Plot Points to Establish." You give Beetle a big heroic moment and no ironic "bwa-ha-ha"? Go back to school.)

Oh, and to complain about something that isn't seven years old now and I haven't bitched about so often the sapphire just goes right through the vinyl, Jim Lee's Wonder Woman = off model. I knew it when I saw it, but took me a while to understand why: her shoulders aren't broad enough. Like, barely broad enough to be "normal," even for comics, and not nearly so for Diana. She looks less muscular than she does pudgy. WW--not small-framed. Like, seriously, compare her to Aquaman. Dude has cannonballs for delts, and Diana has rifle cartridges. Harry Peter is crying in Heaven. Also, too wasp-waisted.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Maybe dig Doug Moench and William Messner-Loebs out of the obscurity pile they're hiding in.

Mike Baron and William Messner-Loebs. Doug Moench never wrote The Flash.

 

[Myasishchev]

Maybe dig Doug Moench and William Messner-Loebs out of the obscurity pile they're hiding in.

Mike Baron and William Messner-Loebs. Doug Moench never wrote The Flash.

Yes, that's totally correct.

Why did I say Doug Moench? Am I jonesing for Deathlok? That can't be right.

And if I ever read Moon Knight, it had better be because I chose the wrong God.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I remember that it was very strange to have Max Lord in one comic being his goofy, jerky self, complaining about his cell phone reception in contrast to Fire's ability to get multiple bars in Hell, and alongside that he was shooting Ted Kord in the face and no one was being very funny at all.

Then you might like to know that the ending of the I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League was a potshot at Infinite Crisis.

 

[Myasishchev]

I remember that it was very strange to have Max Lord in one comic being his goofy, jerky self, complaining about his cell phone reception in contrast to Fire's ability to get multiple bars in Hell, and alongside that he was shooting Ted Kord in the face and no one was being very funny at all.

Then you might like to know that the ending of the I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League was a potshot at Infinite Crisis.

Awesome. I thought that was a coincidence. I mean, there was a lot of weird, echoey stuff in that series. The alternate universe dominatrix Mary Marvel, for example. And the fact that they evidently unintentionally made Jean Loring a babykiller on top of everything else.

I wound up having to skim it again. So. Very. Good.

But if it sold, why not have Giffen and deMatteis come back for more JLIing? Could they just not want to? Possible, although there's a Retroactive issue with the World's Finest Team and a back-in-the-90s story hitting August 24. I mean, even if I bought nothing else, only meteor impact could reasonably stop me from getting that.

I might buy ten. A brick to Dan Didio's head would be cheaper, but overpurchasing good comics is more legal. Of course, there's always something to be said for a combined arms approach.

 

[Thestral]

Also a JSA fan...

I wouldn't mind Wally as a family man, it's a great journey from where he started, it's just I don't dig his kids also having super-powers. It seems like an easy, not particularly creative choice. I would rather him be a family man who as a father has to balance REAL problems and those weird crazy problems he has in his job. Let's see what wacky adventures Wally's kids get into this month, that he's got to go save them--meh, not that interesting.

But, what about a kid, without powers, who grows up with a superhero dad, talk about never meeting expectations.... that could be interesting.

Actually, are there any superhero fathers? The only ones I can think of offhand are Reed Richards and Luke Cage. Heck, the only superhero moms I can think of are Manhunter (E for effort guys but blaaargh) and Sue Storm.

Alan Scott and Ted Grant are both superhero fathers and Alan's failures as a father have been an important plot point. Pat Dugan (S.T.R.I.P.E.) is Courtney Whitmore's stepdad and is the one who really cares, but he doesn't show up that often. Carter Hall is/was a father... sorta, that's a weird case though.

Bruce Wayne's a father, but a pretty absent one I unerstand. There was Roy Harper... but maybe best not to go there.

Libby Lawrence is retired but was a superhero mom, and there's Ma Hunkel who's a grandmother. Was Donna Troy a mother at one point?

 

[Myasishchev]

I don't know how I forgot Bruce Wayne. Although he sort of doesn't count: yeah, he's been a father figure to Dick, Jason (good job!), and Tim, and a sperm donor to Damien, but in all cases his "sons" (and "daughters," if you want to count Babs and possibly Stephanie, not counting Cassandra, since that relationship's kinda weird as I recall and I'm not a big enough Bat-fan to know the ins and outs) always come to him old enough to punch out criminals alongside him. He's never had a kid that wasn't a kid sidekick.

Catman was a super-person father, but his kid died. Sort of like Lian Harper (very much like Lian Harper, actually, since Catman Jr. was her half-brother*), except it was well-written.

Alan Scott didn't raise Obsidian or Jade either, right? I didn't even know that Ted Grant had a kid. In any event, they were both busy being offered to Morpheus in exchange for the key to Hell to be actual parents, if I remember correctly. I do remember Obsidian going bugfuck in JSA. It was cool. Hey, I think that was Johns. I can say nice things about Johns!

*This is maybe what people mean when they say superhero comics are too continuity heavy. I dunno, I'm not really seeing it.

 

[theenglish]

Any word on the JSA? I for one would like to see them in their proper place back in the WW II years and keep them there. This is not to say that I didn't enjoy the "modern" JSA stories and I was always a fan of the crossovers in the pages of JLA, but if there is going to be a reboot then I would love to see a JSA in the Golden Age book.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I enjoyed Simone's column. I certainly take her at her word as to what she thinks and feels about all of this.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Any word on the JSA? I for one would like to see them in their proper place back in the WW II years and keep them there. This is not to say that I didn't enjoy the "modern" JSA stories and I was always a fan of the crossovers in the pages of JLA, but if there is going to be a reboot then I would love to see a JSA in the Golden Age book.

I wonder if they'll ditch the WWII connection all together. Just make the JSA the previous generation of heroes.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Actually, I kind of wonder what Clark Kent will turn out to be like.

 

[JD]

You guys keep talking about what they're going to keep, which confuses me, because I was under the impression that they were going to pretty much just wipe away the whole DCU and start over from scratch?

 

[Myasishchev]

Any word on the JSA? I for one would like to see them in their proper place back in the WW II years and keep them there. This is not to say that I didn't enjoy the "modern" JSA stories and I was always a fan of the crossovers in the pages of JLA, but if there is going to be a reboot then I would love to see a JSA in the Golden Age book.

I wonder if they'll ditch the WWII connection all together. Just make the JSA the previous generation of heroes.

Cool. I want to see the JSA fight the Viet Cong. And Johnny Thunder would make a great hippie.

 

[Thestral]

Alan Scott didn't raise Obsidian or Jade either, right? I didn't even know that Ted Grant had a kid. In any event, they were both busy being offered to Morpheus in exchange for the key to Hell to be actual parents, if I remember correctly. I do remember Obsidian going bugfuck in JSA. It was cool. Hey, I think that was Johns. I can say nice things about Johns!

Good points, and yeah Alan didn't raise his kids. Although as I recall he did check in on Jade a lot more often than Obie.

Ted Grant's grown son (that he didn't know about, of course) turned up in the post-One Year Later relaunch of JSA as a were-panther that goes by Wildcat.

I wonder if they'll ditch the WWII connection all together. Just make the JSA the previous generation of heroes.

That's work for me. The intergenerational nature of JSA is what attracts me to it - having both the Three Old Men and a couple other older heroes ocassionally, and at the same time a cadre of younger legacies like Mr. Teriffic, Hourman, Doc Mid-Nite, Stargirl, and Jakeem Thunder.