Dax Fans: Choose - Round 2
- Thread starter Admiral Shran
- Start date
Normal Ezri
And talking about look-a-likes, This lady from Boeing could be Nicole de Boers sister:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_4HMrem2ag
And talking about look-a-likes, This lady from Boeing could be Nicole de Boers sister:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_4HMrem2ag
Dang it. I feel a gush in me, just forcing to come out. I have no way to keep it in.
[GUSH]
I think Ezri is, I.M.A.N.S.H.O., THE most beautiful girl I've ever seen in all of Star Trek. And it's not simply physical--though she is cerainly extremely attractive.
No...Ezri has, too, a great deal of inner beauty, "The unfading beauty of a quiet and gentle spirit". She is full of innocence, idealism, and humility--yet also self-confidence (over time), integrity, and nobility. She's skilled, intelligent, and moral--and above all, she is filled with a warm, joyful enthusiasm for life.
(BTW...there's something to be said for the fact that she's an heiress to a powerful, wealthy corporation. Effectively, Ezri's a Capitalist Princess. How's that for "sexy"?)
Julian Bashir certainly made a wonderful choice. Treat 'er well, lad--and don't take her for granted.
[/GUSH]
*sigh* I need a life....
[GUSH]I think Ezri is, I.M.A.N.S.H.O., THE most beautiful girl I've ever seen in all of Star Trek. And it's not simply physical--though she is cerainly extremely attractive.
No...Ezri has, too, a great deal of inner beauty, "The unfading beauty of a quiet and gentle spirit". She is full of innocence, idealism, and humility--yet also self-confidence (over time), integrity, and nobility. She's skilled, intelligent, and moral--and above all, she is filled with a warm, joyful enthusiasm for life.
(BTW...there's something to be said for the fact that she's an heiress to a powerful, wealthy corporation. Effectively, Ezri's a Capitalist Princess. How's that for "sexy"?)
Julian Bashir certainly made a wonderful choice. Treat 'er well, lad--and don't take her for granted.
[/GUSH]*sigh* I need a life....
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A
Amaris
Guest
While I simply adore Jadzia, I love Ezri too.
Between the three, Regular Ezri Dax is the only one that works for me.
Between the three, Regular Ezri Dax is the only one that works for me.
Withers
Captain
I hated that they brought a Dax back to the lives of the DS9 crew at all with only one season to go. There wasn't time to establish the character even to level of the dozen supplementary characters of the show in my opinion. I was even less a fan when I realized they were trying to do a polar opposite of Jadzia (who was sure of herself, and confident, with the proven worth of a fighter) with Ezri (a neurotic, unsure, shaky counselor). I absolutely detested the character until I saw the Mirror Universe version.
I want that Ezri in the regular universe. That's how that character should have been played. Jadzia was inviting like a loyal Great Dane. If they were going try to make a new character out of Dax they should've done the teenage version of that same dog and to me that's what Mirror Universe Ezri was.
-Withers-
I want that Ezri in the regular universe. That's how that character should have been played. Jadzia was inviting like a loyal Great Dane. If they were going try to make a new character out of Dax they should've done the teenage version of that same dog and to me that's what Mirror Universe Ezri was.
-Withers-
If they were just going to bring back Dax as a Jadiza-clone, why bother killing off Jadzia in the first place?
The fact that Ezri was the polar opposite of Jadzia was what made her great, IMO.But then again, I always thought Jadzia was arrogant, rude, supremely self-absorbed, and downright unlikeable.
Withers
Captain
They had to because they couldn't renegotiate the contract with the actress who played Dax. The creators even said they never had any want to kill her off and that it was never really integral to the story.
I guess you're right. It comes down to how much you liked Jadzia and I loved her. The opposite of her, to me, would be an unseasoned, mean spirited, hard edged person and that's what I would have rather seen out of Ezri... but there again, the whole idea of them replacing Jadzia the very episode after she dies with another Dax (albeit 3 months later I guess) always seemed ridiculous to me. I would've just gone with a non-Dax character all together. Hell, bring in another TNG cast member. They always seem to go over well (lol).
-Withers-
^ I suppose they could have had another actress come in to take over the role of Jadzia if they wanted to keep the character, it's not unheard of. Heck, they had three women play the role of Tora Ziyal.
But then again, I don't know how the audience would respond to a new person playing a main cast member.
But then again, I don't know how the audience would respond to a new person playing a main cast member.
Say what you will. You can call Jadzia "self confident" and "sure of herself" all you want, but she had this superior, "Julian--I've--been--a--young--man--once--so--I--know--your--hormonal--issues--are--completely--normal" attitude--and then she has a bunch of "hormonal" issues of her own, with Captain Boday, and the rest.
And it gets put in an even worse light when Ezri revealed to Julian that "If Worf hadn't come along, it would've been you."
Julian looks like he's been slapped in the face--and I sympathize. Jadzia went through great lengths to give Julian the impression that she just wasn't that in to him--and then we find that she was, and that she was just playing super-hard-to-get!
THAT is what I don't like about Jadzia. That she uses her "power" over men to make complete fools of them.
Ezri has no such narcissistic, patronizing attitude. Though she does get playful at times, as a rule, she treats men with respect.
And yes, she started out unsure, and nervous (not neurotic, though--eccentric, but certainly not neurotic), but throughout the season, we see her grow in confidence, and inner strength.
And it gets put in an even worse light when Ezri revealed to Julian that "If Worf hadn't come along, it would've been you."
Julian looks like he's been slapped in the face--and I sympathize. Jadzia went through great lengths to give Julian the impression that she just wasn't that in to him--and then we find that she was, and that she was just playing super-hard-to-get!
THAT is what I don't like about Jadzia. That she uses her "power" over men to make complete fools of them.
Ezri has no such narcissistic, patronizing attitude. Though she does get playful at times, as a rule, she treats men with respect.
And yes, she started out unsure, and nervous (not neurotic, though--eccentric, but certainly not neurotic), but throughout the season, we see her grow in confidence, and inner strength.
On the other hand, you could call that a retcon, just like how Julian was suddenly in love with Jadzia again from Change of Heart onwards.
I liked both Daxes, but I don't think either was handled that well. Jadzia didn't get much interesting material in the first couple of seasons, then she got a few worthwhile character episodes (Equilibrium, Facets, Rejoined), but just as she was coming into her own they hooked her up with Worf and all we really got after that was a bunch of Worf-and-Dax episodes. With Ezri at least we got some proper character episodes, but I don't think any of them was a true classic. I also wasn't crazy about the Ezri-Bashir relationship - not so much the idea of those two characters getting together, but rather the way they strung it out for so long in the final chapter.
Overall I probably preferred Jadzia, but Ezri was worth it for her scene with Worf in Tacking into the Wind - clearly her finest moment.
See, I never really accepted that Julian's feelings for Jadzia were "true love". He was just fascinated with her, and indeed, infatuated. He started out trying to put the moves on her, and then they became friends.
With Ezri, she starts out as friends with Julian, and we see it blossom into something more. That's a sign of "true love".
Agreed, for the most part.
I disagree. They were classic, if only because of the many strong moments we see for her.
And the "stringing"--I dunno. I'd think the awkwardness, and the continuing tension, makes it more realistic.
I agree somewhat. I LOVE her scene there. At last we see her bloom as a wise, brilliant mind, who is not afraid to stand up for what is right.
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Withers
Captain
From Memory Alpha's page on Image in the Sand...
The more I think about it though the more I can pinpoint my issue and it isn't necessarily that I greatly preferred one Dax over the other. It's more that, once the decision was made to kill Jadzia Dax I would have preferred just about anybody over another Dax. Bring in a former Starfleet Intelligence Officer. Bring in a former Section 31 Agent (assuming such a thing exists). Bring... Reg for all I care just don't, after all the episodes we've seen about Trills not going back to their old lives, bring up another friggen Dax. You can even have another Trill if you must... just not Dax. That's my real problem with Ezri. It isn't her character (though I hate when Star Trek does 'cutesy' for the most part.) It's that her character is a Dax.
-Withers-
That's the only reason I chose that particular word to describe her. Anyway, after the women of STNG I was ready for a Starfleet female senior staff member that had a little more... spine I guess one might say. (Don't get me wrong I liked Troi and Beverly just fine. They were just "We're here because we're women" and Jadzia and Kira seemed like they were there because they were good.)
The more I think about it though the more I can pinpoint my issue and it isn't necessarily that I greatly preferred one Dax over the other. It's more that, once the decision was made to kill Jadzia Dax I would have preferred just about anybody over another Dax. Bring in a former Starfleet Intelligence Officer. Bring in a former Section 31 Agent (assuming such a thing exists). Bring... Reg for all I care just don't, after all the episodes we've seen about Trills not going back to their old lives, bring up another friggen Dax. You can even have another Trill if you must... just not Dax. That's my real problem with Ezri. It isn't her character (though I hate when Star Trek does 'cutesy' for the most part.) It's that her character is a Dax.
-Withers-
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Well, Ezri's a brave soul, if that's what you mean by "spine". But you're right if you mean she's not the typical "tough gal" we see so much on TV today.
Which, I think, is why I like her so much. Finally, a girl who is feminine! (Not to an extreme, of course--that's Leeta, and frankly, there's too much of that, too. But Ezri's feminine enough to establish that she is far from the "seductive tomboy" mold that Jadzia fit disturbingly well....)
And she's a dang good counselor. Despite the writer's alleged intentions, Nicole deBoer's acting in "Afterimage" make me strongly doubt that Ezri's discovery of Garak's problem was simply her "stumbling" on the answer by "serendipity".
Note her expression when she says, "Are you all right?" It's a little too innocent--as if she was expecting Garak's tensing up. My guess is, she had been testing a theory with her lines about Kalandra and Garak's broken codes, and then she sees herself proven right.
She's there because she's good. Well, Sisko wanted her on because she's his friend, but she proves herself with that ep.
Which, I think, is why I like her so much. Finally, a girl who is feminine! (Not to an extreme, of course--that's Leeta, and frankly, there's too much of that, too. But Ezri's feminine enough to establish that she is far from the "seductive tomboy" mold that Jadzia fit disturbingly well....)
And she's a dang good counselor. Despite the writer's alleged intentions, Nicole deBoer's acting in "Afterimage" make me strongly doubt that Ezri's discovery of Garak's problem was simply her "stumbling" on the answer by "serendipity".
Note her expression when she says, "Are you all right?" It's a little too innocent--as if she was expecting Garak's tensing up. My guess is, she had been testing a theory with her lines about Kalandra and Garak's broken codes, and then she sees herself proven right.
She's there because she's good. Well, Sisko wanted her on because she's his friend, but she proves herself with that ep.
Well, I have to agree it was a mistake to bring Ezri on with only one season to go - they should have changed much earlier!
Apart from that, Rush has already covered most of what I'd want to say about Ezri.
Pemmer mentioned that Jadzia wasn't handled well - actually you said both Daxes, but we mostly differ on Ezri.
However, I think they didn't really know where they were going with Jadzia at first. Later, but starting well before Worf arrived, all her episodes were about Curzon and Klingons. But we already knew a lot about Klingons... we wanted to learn more about Trills, and this heavy focus on just one particular past life didn't work for that.
I think Ezri, for all her lack of training and great difficulty dealing with the symbiont, was probably less Jadzia than Jadzia was Curzon.
Apart from that, Rush has already covered most of what I'd want to say about Ezri.
Pemmer mentioned that Jadzia wasn't handled well - actually you said both Daxes, but we mostly differ on Ezri.
However, I think they didn't really know where they were going with Jadzia at first. Later, but starting well before Worf arrived, all her episodes were about Curzon and Klingons. But we already knew a lot about Klingons... we wanted to learn more about Trills, and this heavy focus on just one particular past life didn't work for that.
I think Ezri, for all her lack of training and great difficulty dealing with the symbiont, was probably less Jadzia than Jadzia was Curzon.
I agree, Ezri should have been brought on the show sooner, so as to allow her character more time to develop. Someone, it might have been Rush, I can't remember, said they should have had her be a recurring character until season seven, when she became a main character.
Looking back on it now, I can see how this might not have worked. After all, from a production standpoint, how would they have known that they would need to kill off Jadzia after six seasons. However, I think it would have been a good idea to introduce Ezri halfway through season six, when it became obvious that Terry Farrell might not return (as a sort of backup plan). That way we could have had at least a few more episodes to develop her character.
Looking back on it now, I can see how this might not have worked. After all, from a production standpoint, how would they have known that they would need to kill off Jadzia after six seasons. However, I think it would have been a good idea to introduce Ezri halfway through season six, when it became obvious that Terry Farrell might not return (as a sort of backup plan). That way we could have had at least a few more episodes to develop her character.
^Someone else suggested it, but I expanded it.
My idea was--have her early on as a counselor who is assigned to O'Brien after "Hard Time", and she works with Julian to help the doctor's friend out of the gutter. Even if Terry didn't decide to leave, still, audiences would have a reason to love her, and want to see more of her.
We'd see Julian and Ezri's romance develop early on--and, when Jadia died, and the symbiont takes a turn for the worse earlier on (perhaps Dukat's attack weakens the symbiont so that it needs a new host now), Ezri volunteers to take it, out of neccesity.
Come season seven, Julian helps her in her recovery...and their relationship strengthens....
But again, hindsight is 20/20. Interestingly enough--the writers noted that Ezri's predicament opened up so many story possibilities (as opposed to just "Dax used to be a friend of the captain") that "We should have done that in the beginning!"
My idea was--have her early on as a counselor who is assigned to O'Brien after "Hard Time", and she works with Julian to help the doctor's friend out of the gutter. Even if Terry didn't decide to leave, still, audiences would have a reason to love her, and want to see more of her.
We'd see Julian and Ezri's romance develop early on--and, when Jadia died, and the symbiont takes a turn for the worse earlier on (perhaps Dukat's attack weakens the symbiont so that it needs a new host now), Ezri volunteers to take it, out of neccesity.
Come season seven, Julian helps her in her recovery...and their relationship strengthens....
But again, hindsight is 20/20. Interestingly enough--the writers noted that Ezri's predicament opened up so many story possibilities (as opposed to just "Dax used to be a friend of the captain") that "We should have done that in the beginning!"
Withers
Captain
The only problem with bringing on a recurring character who so happened to be an unjoined Trill is that I think it would've given it away. Jadzia's death came as a surprise (total shock really) to me the first time I saw it. I was just watching tv back then and didn't speculate with other fans or know anything about the production of the show from the internet (and thus no way of knowing Terry was planning to leave the show.)
Had they introduced a recurring Starfleet unjoined Trill that had major connections to both Miles and Julian (and she would've almost had to have at least known of Jadzia even if she wasn't straight up friends with her) midway through season six it would've been kind of obvious they were going to do something with Dax. It would have made the episode before she dies and the conversation she and Worf have about procreating seem like a "Wa-wa-waaaa" moment.
They had Dax for six seasons. Why not take the opportunity to introduce a new character un-related to Dax at all? They didn't replace Tasha with her cousin. They didn't move Kes' consciousness into a new body- they gave us Seven of Nine (though I won't elaborate on that any further). Rather than "Dax is Dead. Long Live Dax" why not just do something new? Ezri would've been fine as a character had they just left the Dax symbiont out of her belly.
-Withers-
Had they introduced a recurring Starfleet unjoined Trill that had major connections to both Miles and Julian (and she would've almost had to have at least known of Jadzia even if she wasn't straight up friends with her) midway through season six it would've been kind of obvious they were going to do something with Dax. It would have made the episode before she dies and the conversation she and Worf have about procreating seem like a "Wa-wa-waaaa" moment.
They had Dax for six seasons. Why not take the opportunity to introduce a new character un-related to Dax at all? They didn't replace Tasha with her cousin. They didn't move Kes' consciousness into a new body- they gave us Seven of Nine (though I won't elaborate on that any further). Rather than "Dax is Dead. Long Live Dax" why not just do something new? Ezri would've been fine as a character had they just left the Dax symbiont out of her belly.
-Withers-
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