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Cristopher Lloyd ruined the Klingons!

^Also, Maltz appeared in issue of DC comics Star Trek Special which featured smaller, stories from across the TOS timeline. One of these stories was set on Vulcan in the 3 months that the crew spent there. Maltz makes a cameo but the story involves a mentally clouded Spock reenacting his kash-wan.
 
Batshit insane? I’m a bit mystified by all this. To be perfectly honest, I always felt the Kruge typified the 23rd century Klingon, and he has always been one of my favorite antagonists from the entire franchise. He was arrogant, yet cunning, bold to the point of recklessness, brave, and ambitious. Kruge took a gamble by pursuing the Genesis secret, to be sure, but isn’t that the type of courage in the face of overwhelming odds that Klingon society rewards? The captain of a single scout ship heading alone into Federation space to steal the secret of their new superweapon out from under their noses. Accomplish a mission like that, and Kruge would have been hailed a hero of the empire, becoming the subject of stories, songs, and legends.

Kruge attempted to capture the Grissom, only to have bad luck (or a poor gunner) foul up his initial plans. Failing that, he ambushed the Enterprise, only realizing too late he’d unwittingly pounced on an elite crew wily enough to perceive his presence through their cloak. Far from admitting defeat, however, Kruge proved smart enough to see through Kirk’s bluff, and utilized the last card he had in his deck, the hostages on the planet.

When it became clear that he’d killed Kirk’s son, Kruge was honorable enough to give Kirk extra time to grieve and (in Kruge's mind) to save face in front of his crew, time that Kirk then used to turn the tables. After Kruge’s boarding party was killed by the Enterprise’s destruction, he opted to beam down to the planet to take Kirk on face-to-face. Again, honorable by Klingon standards, and in actuality, probably the only way to redeem himself after the loss of most of his crew.

I never perceived any of Kruge’s actions as being irrational or against the grain of established Klingon behavior. Maybe it’s just me? :confused:
 
Kruge was just ONE Klingon. But when it came time for the Klingons to be expanded in TNG, TPTB pretty much used to Kruge model to paint a broad stroke across the whole race. During TOS, they were cinning and duplicitous, while the Romulans were agressive and militaristic, minus the spewing of the honor garbage (as evidenced in Balance Of Terror). But it seemed that their roles reversed in TNG. I think it would have been more interesting to have had the Klingons like they were in TOS on TNG. Imagine how slightly paranoid the human and non-human crew would have been with smiling-yet-capable-of-letting-the-other-shoe-drop type of Worf as opposed to the "HULK SMASH" Worf.
 
Nope. It was the endless TNG backstory/soap opera of Klingons that ruined the race. As a result, we all know far more about Klingon peerage and accession than we know of British royalty.

Honor this and k-blah and k-stuff that. Attention paid to the subtle details of Klingon culture would have been far better spent examining human behavior. Let the Klingons get their own TV show; "Star Trek" is for earth.
 
blockaderunner said:
Kruge was just ONE Klingon. But when it came time for the Klingons to be expanded in TNG, TPTB pretty much used to Kruge model to paint a broad stroke across the whole race. During TOS, they were cinning and duplicitous, while the Romulans were agressive and militaristic, minus the spewing of the honor garbage (as evidenced in Balance Of Terror). But it seemed that their roles reversed in TNG. I think it would have been more interesting to have had the Klingons like they were in TOS on TNG. Imagine how slightly paranoid the human and non-human crew would have been with smiling-yet-capable-of-letting-the-other-shoe-drop type of Worf as opposed to the "HULK SMASH" Worf.

That was sort of why they did switch the characteristics of the Klingons and Romulans. They realized that the TOS Klingons wouldn't make good allies that the Feds would be so comfortable as to let one be an officer on their Flagship, or to have officer exchange programs with. So they made the Rommies into the sneaky duplicitous ones while the Klingons became the honorable militaristic warriors.

Then they decided to take the general idea of the TOS Klingons and make a new race with it in the form of the Cardassians.

Now, if the TOS Klingons had been written as well as the Cardies had, then we'd have a species that didn't need to be altered, but as it stands the change wasn't a bad one.
 
ancient said:
Well, I maybe wasn't being 100% clear last night. I'm not saying that Lloyd of Kruge directly caused Klingon culture to end up so over-the-top, but rather that whoever was writing the klingon eps on TNG might have incorrectly chosen Kruge as a model klingon. Of course, the BOP also became the most-used klingon ship too.

I don't hate the TNG klingons, in fact I like them just fine usually. I thought Martok (DS9) was a great character, for example. But any episode dealing heavily in klingon culture usually, well, was pretty nutty.

Such as the scene in a TNG episode where Worf complains about his brother drinking with their enmies in a bar scene where if you notice all the klingons are punching eachother.
I think there was also an arm wrestling match some where in there where the loser ends up with a knife through his hand.

The Cardassians are what could be considered a warrior (militaristic) race but I never got the impression they were off the wall crazy like the Klingons.
 
I always liked the idea found in the novel Sarek where Kruge was being telepathically influenced to the actions he did in the movie.
 
I hated Kruge, Miscasting at it's worst.
Way over the top performance by the actor which was essentially a retread of his Back To The Future Performance (actually a retread of every performance he's ever given)
#1 Slightly comical imbalanced individual.
#2 Comical slightly imbalanced individual.
#3 Individual comically and slightly imbalanced.
Etc.
 
Matango said:
Way over the top performance by the actor which was essentially a retread of his Back To The Future Performance (actually a retread of every performance he's ever given)
Okay, first off, Back to the Future was AFTER Star Trek III. TSFS was in 1984, BTTF in 1985.

Secondly, how in the world can you say that Kruge and Doc Brown were the same performance? Sure, it's the same actor and some of the same characterstics come through. But Lloyd effectively portrayed Kruge a vicious and merciless killer, drunk with his aspirations of power, and concerned with nothing but his own personal glory. Doc Brown that is not. Just because both characters are played larger than life does not make them the same.
 
Matango said:
Way over the top performance by the actor which was essentially a retread of his Back To The Future Performance

Damn slingshot 'round the sun! ;)

He was better known as Jim from "Taxi" before his ST III role. Then came Doc Brown.

And I think he did a great job as Kruge. It was hard to second guess his actions during ST III.
 
He's also one of the only villains in TOS that called Kirk on a bluff, if not the ONLY villain who ever called him on a bluff. Gotta respect that.
 
The Laughing Vulcan said:
I liked Kruge, of all the bumpy headed aliens in Trek, the way Christopher Lloyd played him was truly... alien.

The odd speech patterns, "Emergency Power.... To the Thrusters!", the baleful looks, he was just animalistic weird

I thought he was great too, his stand off with Kirk especially.

Besides, TNG Klingons and beyond lived in a crap empire, the comparison between the Klingons and Rommies with the real life USSR and PRC works well. Russia is a shadow of its former self, capable of bullying, but no subtlety and wracked internally.
 
Lloyd didn't ruin the Klingons. He just played Kruge as a "rogue warrior". And he didn't play the role with the bug-eyed style for which he was known, at the time, through playing Reverand Jim in Taxi. (This was before he played Doc Brown). Kruge was a nut, but, really, was at heart not much different than General Chang in Trek VI.

Cheers!

Alex
 
My problem is that, as portrayed in TNG, I wondered how the Klingons ever got into space in the first place.


Tony
 
We usually only see the warriors in TNG, we know from ENT that there were scientist Klingons, Lawyer Klingons, etc.

But if it's any help a (apparently) canon Klingon book says that after they drove the Hurq from their homeworld they got their hands on leftover Hurq tech and reverse-engineered it.
 
Anwar said:
But if it's any help a (apparently) canon Klingon book says that after they drove the Hurq from their homeworld they got their hands on leftover Hurq tech and reverse-engineered it.

None of the licensed tie-in novels or guide books are canonical. Some elements of the licensed tie-in novels have passed into canon, such as Sulu's first name (ST VI), Janeway's background (from "Mosaic" by Jeri Taylor), or the combining of several theories as to how the Klingons got their bumpy foreheads (ENT).
 
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