Cristopher Lloyd ruined the Klingons!
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Not quite. We've met Klingon priests -- who were obsessed with warrior culture. We've met Klingon colonists (captured by the Romulans, whom Warf tried to free) who were obsessed with the warrior culture they'd left behind. We've met Klingon nursemaids (remember Warf's old nanny?) who was obsessed by -- and killed by -- warriors. We've spent a lot of time dealing with the actual GOVERNMENT of the Klingons -- which is functionally a military dictatorship. THere seem to be no civilian fashions as everyone we've ever seen seems to wear something that is either a uniform or inspired by one.
They are a society that is OBSESSED with the bonkers warrior cult they have going. I really doubt -- in all honesty -- that a culture so hung up on that sort of thing could EVER have made it to space unless by some chance they stole the technology from someone else.
Tony
Those "colonists" were all soldiers actually, each and every one of them. They were taken from a Klingon Outpost near Khitomer.
The Priests weren't obsessed with warriors so much as they were obsessed with Kahless, who just happened to be a warrior. Hell they were disgusted with the current state of the Klingon culture at that point.
The Klingon priests, the Klingon lawyer, the Klingon chef and that Klingon Quark was married to were all dressed differently from warrior Klingons.
And for the record, I think it's been made canon that the Klingons got their space-tech from the Hurq invaders after they drove them away.
The Priests weren't obsessed with warriors so much as they were obsessed with Kahless, who just happened to be a warrior. Hell they were disgusted with the current state of the Klingon culture at that point.
The Klingon priests, the Klingon lawyer, the Klingon chef and that Klingon Quark was married to were all dressed differently from warrior Klingons.
And for the record, I think it's been made canon that the Klingons got their space-tech from the Hurq invaders after they drove them away.
That's "I... have HAD.... e-NOUGH.... of YOU!!"
Yeah, that was a highlight.
Tony
Personally I always loved:
"Beam the Vulcan up too"
"No"
"Why?"
"Because you wish it"
<chuckle> now for me THAT is why TOS era Kilingons were regarded as total bastards, played to perfection by CL.
It's like saying "And the Horse you Rode In On" or possibly "You, And Your Mother." If I can inflict this one more annoyance upon you, then I'm going to savor the chance. Awesome.
About warp technology: Human warp flight was developed during and in the aftermath of a nuclear war. The first warp ship was strapped to a military missile. Its developer was motivated by wealth and naked women, was known to get drunk on the eve of launches, and liked the put the moves on chicks he couldn't even remember the name of. If that's how "developed" a society has to be before it can achieve warp flight, that's a pretty low bar for the Klingons to vault over.
In fact, many brilliant humans in Star Trek have been entirely too fond of whiskey or scotch (single malt, preferably from the highlands) or mint julep, or obsessed over violent holodeck recreations of historical battles. Or they were cocksure rev-heads like Tom "I'll have two Delaney Sisters, a cup of Seven and for desert a B'Elanna Split" Paris.
A person's social behavior or what vices they suffer has no bearing on their ability to make breakthroughs (looking at how many scientists, philosophers, artists and writers had vices and failings might even push the argument in the other direction). There is no correlation between 'Acting Like Me' and 'Being Intelligent'. So they eat with their hands. Big deal. So does a physics doctorate at KFC. Whether or not they follow our standards of politeness means nothing when it comes to their ability to develop technology (Isn't this Star Trek Not Judging Books By Their Covers 101? Haven't there been entire episodes, if not films, about not making vast generalizations about societies?).
Humans didn't need Zen Monks on their mountain, mentally in-tune with the bigger picture, to invent warp engines. Neither did the Klingons. Although the Klingons do have Zen Monks on the mountain cloning Kahless and implanting false memories in him in order to unite the Empire and end internal strife. That could be called 'bigger picture'. Goes to show that 'Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination' still applies. We've met Klingon scientists, lawyers, nursemaids, chefs, accountants, holy men and politicians (thinking more about Gorkon and Azet'Bur than Gowron). We've heard of poets and musical composers. We've been told of of Klingon ship captains who were never in the military (in Rules of Engagement). "Warrior Society" is a convenient description of a population trend and how they examine their history, but it doesn't come close to describing the variety that exists in their species - a variety that we have seen.
And on the technology front, remember that societies in conflict tend to develop faster because better technology means survival. Rocketry, computers and nuclear technology developed very quickly during World War II, and the 'unenlightened' Cold War spurred the space race. The Klingons were motivated to develop technology. After being conquered by the Hurq they vowed to never be weak or helpless again, and that directed every action that followed.
Klingon warp technology is actually pretty damn good. Klingon ships were faster at warp than human ships in Enterprise. In the 23rd century we saw Klingon D7s outrunning the Constitution class Enterprise at warp. Just for the record, that's a Klingon ship about a third of the internal volume with nacelles half the size, going faster. And in the 24th century a Klingon Bird of Prey can do warp 9. The closest sized Starfleet ship, the Nova class, can only make warp 8 and it's twice the size and has a dedicated navigational deflector (maybe even two deflectors). It's not just that the Klingons are keeping pace with the Federation. They have smaller ships that can achieve higher warp.
Saying 'they stole the technology' would require them to be expanding, conquering and occupuying worlds quicker than the Federation was exploring, making peaceful contact and sharing technology, and would have to be doing it to technologically more-advanced societies. That's like kicking a God around and taking his Fire on a weekly basis. Having scientists and a big population is a far more supported explanation.
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"If there is to be a Brave New World, our generation will have the hardest time living in it."
STAR TREK: RUST RED
Yep. In Balance of Terror Romulan warp drive was completely outclassed by Starfleet engines. Kirk was literally flying rings around the Romulan ship. Strategically the Romulans needed a boost in engine and warp technology. The next time we see them in The Enterprise Incident they're outrunning Kirk in their D7s. Either the D7 is faster, or the Romulans looked at these new and alien ships which were already beyond their own warp technology, instantly understood the foreign engines better than their original designers, and overnight boosted them far beyond their original warp specifications. I don't think the latter is that likely since the Romulans' own warp technology is, demonstrated in Balance of Terror, not that flash. The simplest explanation that the D7 is plain old faster.
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"If there is to be a Brave New World, our generation will have the hardest time living in it."
STAR TREK: RUST RED
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"If there is to be a Brave New World, our generation will have the hardest time living in it."
STAR TREK: RUST RED
Bullshit. Watch their premiere episode "Heart of Glory".
"My brother, it is you who does not see. The true test of a warrior is not without it is WITHIN. *points to chest* It is here, HERE where we meet the challenges. The weaknesses in here. You have spoke of conquest and glory and the legends we will write. And yet in all you say where are the words: "Duty" "Honor" and "Loyalty"? Without which a warrior is NOTHING!"
--Worf
No sir. Worf gave the Klingons a depth that the mustache-twirlers on TOS never had.
I would point out that in the aforementioned episode the Enterprise is traveling at warp 9, and when at "flank speed" the Romulan ship closes a distance of 50,000km in 13 seconds (it's basically in one shot, so it's a pretty accurate time frame). This means the Romulan ship is overtaking the Enterprise at a rate of ~3846km per second, which at warp speeds, is next to no difference. If the old warp # cubed thing was accurate, warp 9 would be 218,700,000 (two hundred eighteen million, seven hundred thousand) km per second. Or, to put it in real world terms, the car license plate number NCC1701 is driving at 90 kmh and the car license number DEE7 is driving 16 cmh (centimeters per hour) faster.
Hardly vastly faster (albeit they are tailgating)!One interesting thing I noticed when looking at this is that Spock first reports the ship's range and 150,000km. ~13 seconds later he reports it at 100,000km and says they should start firing in 12.7 seconds, which is just about the same time it took the ship to close 50,000km. So, Spock may have just established the D7's weapons range at 50,000km.
That would depend on what weapons were used at warp speed. A shot in pursuit of a warp ship would have to cover a far, far greater distance than a shot being fired backwards at a pursuer (one has to catch up, while the other essentially stops). Typically Trek doesn't make those sorts of distinctions.
And on the speed front, remember that while the D7s were only slightly faster, they were substantially smaller. It's like an Oberth outrunning a Constitution. And if they can outrun a Connie, they can certainly outpace a Miranda or any other ship of mid-23rd century Starfleet.
A small speed advantage is all you need to to ensure that you decide whether to fight or flee. If the enemy force is superior, you just get in range. And if your force is superior then they can't escape. Add cloaking technology to the mix and you can really choose your fights, and that's a tremendous edge.
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"If there is to be a Brave New World, our generation will have the hardest time living in it."
STAR TREK: RUST RED
And on the speed front, remember that while the D7s were only slightly faster, they were substantially smaller. It's like an Oberth outrunning a Constitution. And if they can outrun a Connie, they can certainly outpace a Miranda or any other ship of mid-23rd century Starfleet.
A small speed advantage is all you need to to ensure that you decide whether to fight or flee. If the enemy force is superior, you just get in range. And if your force is superior then they can't escape. Add cloaking technology to the mix and you can really choose your fights, and that's a tremendous edge.
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"If there is to be a Brave New World, our generation will have the hardest time living in it."
STAR TREK: RUST RED
KITUMBA: The One and Only Klingons
Do you even know what I'm talking about?
I've read the script to Kitumba. Its also a very different society from the one presented in the original series as well. I think they could easily have been criticized just as strongly as some criticize TNG Klingons.
That's the kicker: we never got a good look at the society of the Klingons, just some of their ideologies, through the tongues of the military no less. Guess how skewed one's view of America would be if they only talked to officers from the Armed Forces. They'd think Texas makes up nine-tenths of the country.
For all intents and purposes, the Kitumba Klingons are the TOS Klingons.
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