News Coronavirus Pandemic Information and Support Group

[Non Sync]

Personally, I don't think it is good to trivialize people's viewpoint about not wanting to get the vaccine for religious reasons. It is very easy to dismiss these people until you care about someone who feels this way. I know more than one person who has chosen significant personal harm in rejecting to vaccine. Some have lost their job and lively-hood. Some have had to pick up and move to other US states that are less restrictive. Some have been rejected by their family and friends. They also (knowingly) place themselves (and yes, I know others too) at greater risk to COVID and hence death. It is not reasonable to watch people choose in this difficult way and accuse them of not being serious about their convictions.

I'm not saying that there are not some people who abuse the idea of a "religious exemption", but I think all people deserve the benefit of the doubt unless it is clear they are not serious with real evidence.

One person I know (with family) lost hundreds of thousands of dollars selling their business and home, missed out on hundreds of thousands of dollars in business and is starting fresh in another state. It will be a long time before they have recovered financially and socially. The emotional toll on them is immense and this person was very bitter at being "turned-in" and forced to shut down.

I can tell you this person did a lot of good for other people in his life and will continue to do so somewhere else. He was - "bitter, but now he is better". Maybe you are bitter at his "type", but, if so, I ask you to consider getting better.

The good and worth of a person is not limited to this one choice that others don't agree with. For the record, I'm fully vaccinated and boosted, wear a mask and I'm extra careful. I don't agree with the reasoning of those that reject the vaccine. But I don't judge them and the ones I know are less selfish than I am and do more good for others than I do. Maybe it comes with a slight extra risk of getting COVID, but there are a lot of risks in living.

I know so many people, fully vaccinate and wearing masks, that are spreading this omicron like crazy. The few people with religious objections should not be the scapegoats. There is another group of people who don't get vaccinated, also in the minority. They can't take the vaccine because of allergic reactions. Do we reject them too? Send them to other states? Or, make a "leper colony" for them?

How many of those claiming religious exemptions really have true religious objections? Even Christian Science does not have a theological prohibition regarding vaccination. The Catholic Church has said the vaccines are ok and the US Conference of Bishops has specifically stated the faithful can take either the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines even though they were tested with "morally compromised" stem cell lines as they are far removed from "the original sin."

 

[Turtletrekker]

Matched with a girl on a dating app this weekend. Asked her what she got up to this weekend.

"I was downtown Ottawa protesting for our freedoms"

And that's an unmatch by me.

A few weeks back, I finally had a chance to have a few words with the cute, single, age-appropriate customer that comes into my store every day. Asked her where she was heading next and she said "heading into Olympia to protest the mask mandate". I just said, "Oh. Well then you should be on your way. Have a nice day". It's a pity. The dating pool is pretty shallow at my age.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

How many of those claiming religious exemptions really have true religious objections? Even Christian Science does not have a theological prohibition regarding vaccination. The Catholic Church has said the vaccines are ok and the US Conference of Bishops has specifically stated the faithful can take either the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines even though they were tested with "morally compromised" stem cell lines as they are far removed from "the original sin."

I don't know how many. My view is that if someone doesn't feel able to get the shot because it conflicts with any of their religious beliefs, that is a basis for a religious exemption. I don't see why it has to be sanctioned by a head of a religious group, such as a Pope. The stem cell issue is one example. If a person thinks abortion is against their religion, and they believe life starts at conception, and if they believe that using such cells, or even the descendants of such cells, is wrong, I feel that is valid. Just my opinion.

The key point, which makes it hard to say "how many", is that it needs to be an honest belief. If someone uses it as an excuse, that is not a true religious exemption in my view.

The practical problem is that people will use it as an excuse and so the numbers of people claiming the exemption will far exceed the number of honest people. A lingering questions is, "should honest people be denied something because of dishonest people's actions?". It seems the consensus is that the answer to that question is "YES!" . Well, there we have a potential injustice. We are then casting out people who truly can't get the vaccine (analogous to those that have allergies).. They can't work and survive unless they move to a place that does not mandate the vaccine. That feels wrong to me.

 

[Non Sync]

I don't know how many. My view is that if someone doesn't feel able to get the shot because it conflicts with any of their religious beliefs, that is a basis for a religious exemption. I don't see why it has to be sanctioned by a head of a religious group, such as a Pope. The stem cell issue is one example. If a person thinks abortion is against their religion, and they believe life starts at conception, and if they believe that using such cells, or even the descendants of such cells, is wrong, I feel that is valid. Just my opinion.

The key point, which makes it hard to say "how many", is that it needs to be an honest belief. If someone uses it as an excuse, that is not a true religious exemption in my view.

The practical problem is that people will use it as an excuse and so the numbers of people claiming the exemption will far exceed the number of honest people. A lingering questions is, "should honest people be denied something because of dishonest people's actions?". It seems the consensus is that the answer to that question is "YES!" . Well, there we have a potential injustice. We are then casting out people who truly can't get the vaccine (analogous to those that have allergies).. They can't work and survive unless they move to a place that does not mandate the vaccine. That feels wrong to me.

Under your argument that religious belief exceptions should be permitted as an individual belief opens the door to other behaviors that are not otherwise acceptable. "My personal religious belief is that I am free to have sex with minors because my interpretation of the bible commands me to do so."

The stem cell argument becomes selective application unless they also abstain from other medications tested against stem cells such as acetaminophen, aspirin, ibuprofen, Lipitor, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Senokot, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft just to name a few.

People are being denied organ transplants because of their refusal of the vaccine. Why? Because the vaccine has a demonstrated positive outcome on survival if infected and is just one of required vaccines to be selected as a transplant candidate.

Have people who legitimately have medical grounds for not getting the vaccine been fired or not been able to work?

Instead of being confined, should Typhoid Mary be allowed to work as a cook because she believed she was not infectious?

 

[Steven P Bastien]

Under your argument that religious belief exceptions should be permitted as an individual belief opens the door to other behaviors that are not otherwise acceptable. "My personal religious belief is that I am free to have sex with minors because my interpretation of the bible commands me to do so."

Can you make a cogent argument that your religion allows that? And would society accept that? I think no.. So, are you saying that no one would accept the argument that long held religious tenants about "thou shalt not kill", and "life begins at conception" don't reasonably lead some people to not want to accept medicine with stem cells involvement? Maybe you are right and maybe society rejects that idea. As I said, it is only my opinion, but I would accept that argument and reject the child molester's argument. But your point is good. It should not be a free for all that any idea is "religious-based".

The stem cell argument becomes selective application unless they also abstain from other medications tested against stem cells such as acetaminophen, aspirin, ibuprofen, Lipitor, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Senokot, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft just to name a few.

Yes, I agree with that of course.

People are being denied organ transplants because of their refusal of the vaccine. Why? Because the vaccine has a demonstrated positive outcome on survival if infected and is just one of required vaccines to be selected as a transplant candidate.

True. Sorry, I guess I'm missing how that relates to this issue. Except that I've noticed that often the patient or the donor still will not get the vaccine and so they pay a great price for what they believe. That really surprises me, by the way.

Have people who legitimately have medical grounds for not getting the vaccine been fired or not been able to work?

I don't know. But I assume no, which is why I'm comparing to people who have allergy to the vaccine.

Instead of being confined, should Typhoid Mary be allowed to work as a cook because she believed she was not infectious?

I would say no, and if Mary had an allergy to a cure and could not take it, I would still say no. I don't think that applies here. Right now we have infectious people all over the place. Everyone is a potential spreader, whether vaccinated or not. And we do accept the risk of the minority with allergies, or children too young to get it and so on. I do think that unvaccinated people should not work in certain places such as nursing homes and hospitals etc.

By the way, I'm not claiming to have all the answers, or even any answer. Just take it as food for thought.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Matched with a girl on a dating app this weekend. Asked her what she got up to this weekend.

"I was downtown Ottawa protesting for our freedoms"

And that's an unmatch by me.

Wow, that'd be the quickest way to ensure nothing would ever happen

Regarding vaccinations and religion, I'll say this: Anyone in the health care profession knows that they have to get vaccinated against all major diseases on a regular basis. They do so because it's part of their job, and it's expected of them. It protects them against the many sick people they have to attend to, and it protects the sick from anything they might encounter while in the hospital. So, why is it such a surprise to a nursing student to have to vaccinate against a very contagious pandemic? They knew the risks when they signed up to work in the field. What exactly did they expect?

 

[MacLeod]

Can you make a cogent argument that your religion allows that? And would society accept that? I think no.. So, are you saying that no one would accept the argument that long held religious tenants about "thou shalt not kill", and "life begins at conception" don't reasonably lead some people to not want to accept medicine with stem cells involvement? Maybe you are right and maybe society rejects that idea. As I said, it is only my opinion, but I would accept that argument and reject the child molester's argument. But your point is good. It should not be a free for all that any idea is "religious-based".

Yes, I agree with that of course.

True. Sorry, I guess I'm missing how that relates to this issue. Except that I've noticed that often the patient or the donor still will not get the vaccine and so they pay a great price for what they believe. That really surprises me, by the way.

I don't know. But I assume no, which is why I'm comparing to people who have allergy to the vaccine.

I would say no, and if Mary had an allergy to a cure and could not take it, I would still say no. I don't think that applies here. Right now we have infectious people all over the place. Everyone is a potential spreader, whether vaccinated or not. And we do accept the risk of the minority with allergies, or children too young to get it and so on. I do think that unvaccinated people should not work in certain places such as nursing homes and hospitals etc.

By the way, I'm not claiming to have all the answers, or even any answer. Just take it as food for thought.

But then the question becomes who decides what is valid or not valid as a religious based? Soceity has to try and balance religious ideolgy with other religious ideologies as well as those of non-religious people. But without wanting to turn this into a debate on pro-life (i.e anti-abortion) and the death penalty how many actually support both when if you are pro-life you should be against capital punishment as well.

Everything we do in life carries risk, how much risk we want to expose ourselves is an individual choice. How much risk we want to expose others to is a different matter.

I don't think anyone has an issue with those who are medically unable to take the vaccine not receiving it, and some religions band their followers from consuming/using ingrediants from certain animals which is also fine.

But its the small minority who often spoil it for the majority, some might claim religious exemption based on little more than being anti-science. The prabale of "the drowning man" come to mind at times.

 

[shapeshifter]

There is zero Christian Bible authority not to get vaccinated. In fact, totally the opposite.

15 NT Bible verses about obeying Human Authorities.

These types take advantage of public ignorance over what the New Testament Bible actually says to deceive. Don't you believe it!

 

[Avro Arrow]

Matched with a girl on a dating app this weekend. Asked her what she got up to this weekend.

"I was downtown Ottawa protesting for our freedoms"

And that's an unmatch by me.

A few weeks back, I finally had a chance to have a few words with the cute, single, age-appropriate customer that comes into my store every day. Asked her where she was heading next and she said "heading into Olympia protest the mask mandate". I just said, "Oh. Well then you should be on your way. Have a nice day"

I'm sorry things didn't work out for either of you. But it was probably for the best to see the red flags as early as possible.

 

[wayoung]

I'm sorry things didn't work out for either of you. But it was probably for the best to see the red flags as early as possible.

Oh I'm not upset this time. It was literally her 2nd message to me. I'm glad I found out now and not days later like the last one. It just happens so frequently now, this so the second story I've shared here in a week.

 

[Owain Taggart]

The freedom convoy in Ottawa is ridiculous. The latest thing I've heard is they won't leave until the mandates are removed. Well, they'll be waiting an awfully long time, and meanwhile as predicted, the anti-vaxxers and hateful rhetoric has come out in spades. I've heard talk of the star of david and the swastika being waved about.

 

[wayoung]

The freedom convoy in Ottawa is ridiculous. The latest thing I've heard is they won't leave until the mandates are removed. Well, they'll be waiting an awfully long time, and meanwhile as predicted, the anti-vaxxers and hateful rhetoric has come out in spades. I've heard talk of the star of david and the swastika being waved about.

Tonight's news about O'Toole facing a leadership challenge explains why he went 180 and is now embracing them after previously rejecting them. Playing to the base, which apparently wants him out because he supported the conversion therapy ban

 

[DarrenTR1970]

A Washington State Patrol Officer from Yakima County who resigned last year for refusing to get the state required vaccine and signed off by saying, 'Governor Jay Inslee can kiss my ass'; died over the weekend from complications from Covid.

While I'm sorry that the wife no longer has a husband and his children no longer have a father; there's the Nelson Muntz part of me that's saying, 'Haw Haw'.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Tonight's news about O'Toole facing a leadership challenge explains why he went 180 and is now embracing them after previously rejecting them. Playing to the base, which apparently wants him out because he supported the conversion therapy ban

Is this musical chairs? Last I heard, he was distancing himself from them after previously supporting them. Are you saying he's gone back to supporting them? If that's the case, that's more flip-flopping than a fish out of water.

 

[Avro Arrow]

This seems to have gotten a little overshadowed because of the Ottawa protests, but Prime Minister Trudeau announced today he tested positive for Covid. This is after one of his children tested positive last week. As well, another of his children tested positive this week too.

He was already isolating once the first child tested positive, and so will continue to do so. He says that so far he has no symptoms, and feels fine.

 

[wayoung]

Is this musical chairs? Last I heard, he was distancing himself from them after previously supporting them. Are you saying he's gone back to supporting them? If that's the case, that's more flip-flopping than a fish out of water.

I've never heard of a more appropriately named politician.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

But then the question becomes who decides what is valid or not valid as a religious based? Soceity has to try and balance religious ideolgy with other religious ideologies as well as those of non-religious people. But without wanting to turn this into a debate on pro-life (i.e anti-abortion) and the death penalty how many actually support both when if you are pro-life you should be against capital punishment as well.

Everything we do in life carries risk, how much risk we want to expose ourselves is an individual choice. How much risk we want to expose others to is a different matter.

I don't think anyone has an issue with those who are medically unable to take the vaccine not receiving it, and some religions band their followers from consuming/using ingrediants from certain animals which is also fine.

But its the small minority who often spoil it for the majority, some might claim religious exemption based on little more than being anti-science. The prabale of "the drowning man" come to mind at times.

Certainly good points. As far as who decides, I think it has to be judges, or boards that consider the arguments. I'm not sure, but I think court decisions are how mandates are able to stay in place and why the religious exemptions are denied. I definitely see the practical problems and don't have solutions to them. Still, I have seen things that disturb me and that I feel are unfair. I guess I have to chalk it up as another type of casualty caused by COVID.

 

[Owain Taggart]

This seems to have gotten a little overshadowed because of the Ottawa protests, but Prime Minister Trudeau announced today he tested positive for Covid. This is after one of his children tested positive last week. As well, another of his children tested positive this week too.

I don't know if I'd say it was overshadowed. If anything, we know he's going to stay hunkered down and not come out to speak to the truckers. The timing couldn't have been better in that respect as it gives him a good excuse to stay home.

I've never heard of a more appropriately named politician.

Haha, yeah...

 

[Commander Troi]

probably mild it was really bad all day wednesday --- thursday I tested positive but felt better with less body aches -- today almost no body aches the headaches are gone but my cough is bad and throat was incredibly sore getting up -- after eating some soup my throat is fine.

*hugs*

But without wanting to turn this into a debate on pro-life (i.e anti-abortion) and the death penalty how many actually support both when if you are pro-life you should be against capital punishment as well.

I know one person who is morally consistent on this. I'm sure there are more, but she's a close friend, so we know we can discuss stuff like this. She also told me that abortion would be permissible in my case because pregnancy would cause irreparable harm to my mental health (again, she knows me VERY well). From knowing her, I'm sure there are plenty of people who truly think about their positions on things, but don't speak up much because they don't want to get into arguments with inflexible people.

I have to agree about "line of work" issues. To use a silly example, I work for our state department of transportation. If I were adamantly opposed to motor vehicles, I shouldn't have even applied for the job.

The freedom convoy in Ottawa is ridiculous. The latest thing I've heard is they won't leave until the mandates are removed. Well, they'll be waiting an awfully long time, and meanwhile as predicted, the anti-vaxxers and hateful rhetoric has come out in spades. I've heard talk of the star of david and the swastika being waved about.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Matched with a girl on a dating app this weekend. Asked her what she got up to this weekend.

"I was downtown Ottawa protesting for our freedoms"

And that's an unmatch by me.

You could also grammar police her.

Does she really think that she is a location?