Controversies between fans based on misunderstandings

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by alpha_leonis, Jan 30, 2015.

  1. kirkfan

    kirkfan Commodore

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    Archer had a price on his head in season 2. Whatever happened to that? Wouldn't it be hard to maintain diplomatic relations with a country (for example) if one of your major players was wanted there for crimes?
     
  2. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Spock said, "...An end to almost seventy years of unremitting hostility which the Klingons can no longer afford."

    I can accept the first contact in 2151, but only if there is little further contact until the event or events that put the Federation and Klingons at odds. In 2218.
     
  3. kirkfan

    kirkfan Commodore

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    Can Archer being on the most wanted list of the Klingon empire have something to do with future hostility between them and the federation?
     
  4. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Well as you point out. all those lines mean is relations were very tense from aroud 2218, there could have been sixty years of relative peace before then.
     
  5. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    As depicted in last year's ENT novel Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel, the Klingons withdrew behind their borders to deal with the continuing fallout of the Qu'Vat virus in the late 2150s and early 2160s. The internal strife probably won't last that long, but it makes human-Klingon first contact in 2151 in ENT fit better with Federation-Klingon conflict in TOS.
     
  6. kirkfan

    kirkfan Commodore

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    One would think that the first contact wasn't that bad. After all Archer saved the empire, didn't he?
     
  7. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Just to be a nerd, 2293
    :)




    There was also some "controversy" when ENT started that the Klingons had foreheads. With some saying they should look like their TOS brethren.
    Which I never understood, as every time we saw pictures and statues of ancient Klingons in TNG, DS9 & VOY they always had the foreheads. Just people being picky for the sake of it.
     
  8. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Like the Klingons are the only people who would like to see Archer dead.

    Form a line.

    By 2218, Archer would have been around 110 years of age, and debateably dead, expanding Klingon and Federation territories simply growing into each other would be a far more likely scenario.

    :)
     
  9. Darren Mooney

    Darren Mooney Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Star Trek fans? Picky for the sake of it?

    (I've always found the fan double standard in place for A Piece of the Action and North Star to be one of the great "let's pick on ENT for the sake of it" points.)

    This is something that personally irritated me about the fourth season of Enterprise, the way it went of its way to address things that didn't need to addressed. Loved the Federation and Vulcan stories, but it seemed a waste of two episodes to explain advances in make-up between TOS and TMP.

    Never mind that "fixing" the continuity in the Vulcan trilogy makes even less sense. Outside of Spock, Vulcans were always stand-off-ish and adversarial - look at Amok Time, Journey to Babel, The Undiscovered Country, Shakaar, Take Me Out to the Holosuite.

    I feel like we need another three-parter to explain how Vulcans became obnoxious and confrontational again.
     
  10. kirkfan

    kirkfan Commodore

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    In Star Trek 2009, Kirk and Scotty seem to have known him personally. Plus McCoy lived beyond 140 so why not Archer?
     
  11. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    Memory Beta all but insists that the Admiral Archer mentioned in the new movies isn't Jonathon Archer. I think it's clearly supposed to be him, what with the beagle and well, the name.
    Maybe Archer did a little time traveling that shaved some years off him by then, or spent some time in cryo freezing or something, so who knows? I can accept him being 140 since I can accept all the other sci fi elements with transporters, starships and such.
     
  12. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    1) Star Trek Eleven takes place in a alternate universe.

    2) In the Alternate universe, just as Chekov was apparently born in a different year, so could have Archer.

    3) In the prime universe McCoy reached 140 a century and a half after Archer would have reach 110. Advances in medical abilities.

    4) nu-Kirk said he knew the dog, not Archer.

    :)
     
  13. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    Archer's advanced age could be easily explained in-universe as a physiological byproduct of all the futzing about with time travel that he & his crew experienced during their five year run. There may also have been long-term relativistic time-dilation effects of the new first-gen Warp-4 nacelles that prolonged his life even more due to bad shielding, and the lack of the whatever-device. Hell, the entire crew of the NX-01 may all still be alive by Kirk's time, for that matter! I'm all for "Admiral Archer" being the same guy. The mere presence of his name-drop and a reference to his beagle in the script is clearly meant as an intentional reference to the Archer we all know, despite what Memory Beta or anyone else may say.
     
  14. kirkfan

    kirkfan Commodore

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    And so the dog lived like 2000 years in dog years. :guffaw:
     
  15. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    Heh...yeah, that's definitely more of a stretch than Archer's age, to be sure. ;)
     
  16. kirkfan

    kirkfan Commodore

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    Thank you!:)
     
  17. eyeresist

    eyeresist Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Except Archer would have been born before Nero's temporal incursion.

    I agree that Admiral Archer is likely the same one from ENT. As for the beagle, no name is given so it might not have been Porthos. Maybe Archer bred beagles in his later years, hence the "prize-winning".
     
  18. Dr. San Guinary

    Dr. San Guinary Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's obviously not the same beagle (unless there's some alien species of dog that lives a hundred years!), but Archer can definitely be the same. 100+ years is considered the prime of life in Trek's time.
     
  19. eyeresist

    eyeresist Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It could have been the same beagle - there are all sorts of sci-fi explanations one might come up with. But there's no need, story-wise, for it to be the same one.
     
  20. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Not really a controversy so much as an unresolved issue, but whose quarters are those in TMP? Kirk asks Decker to meet him in his quarters following Enterprise's escape from the wormhole, but was the space we later saw originally meant for Decker, or had Kirk taken another set of quarters as his own after taking command of the ship?

    There don't appear to be any personal items present, but that may have been due to the rushed launch of the ship (and the lack of time for Kirk to bring anything with him), rather than Decker being asked to vacate the room quickly.

    --Sran